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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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"For 'macroevolution' not to occur, there has to be a mechanism to stop variation to happen after a certain level of differentiation from the "original " species
and that has never been proved or even theorized."
I agree with this sentiment,
-------------------------------------------
It's not a sentiment, it is an unequivocal statement of fact, and that is true whether you deign to agree with it or not. The real hilarity though is having dishonestly misrepresented it as a sentiment, whilst pretending to agree, you then state you believe the opposite, and that there are such obstacles to speciation.
Any chance you can cite a quote from Campbell's Biology textbook which you claim "essentially has a monopoly on Biology textbooks" that supports your claim there are obstacles to speciation?
aperez242,
I think that there are cases where microevolution (changes in the frequencies of alleles of genes in a population) actually push past the species boundary. However, I believe that the main action in macroevolution involves additional factors. For example, the retention of juvenile characteristics into adulthood caused by one (or a few) key mutations leads to an entirely different looking adult creature! It's probably not by accident that human faces retain many of the juvenile characteristics of chimp faces! The right type of environment, which isolates pockets of the main population, can also open up pathways to rapid evolution above the species level. Darwin's natural selection sits at the base of both microevolution and macroevolution, but the latter is more than just a long-term version of the former. Hence, the two names appear to be justified.
Greensnake,
Evolution is defined as "changes in the frequencies of alleles of genes in a population" and that is the same phenomenon whether you talk about micro or macro. Evolution works at the population level. The retention of juvenile characters or any other change you can think of is always caused by some kind of mutation be that genetic or epigenetic that spreads through the population and changes the frequencies of some genes in the group making them more common. Isolation and other processes like sex selection are mechanisms that work both for micro and macroevolution. Is just a matter of time and degree of change. Is like those videos you see on the web that morph one face into another, small, additive changes add to create a very different output. In evolution, however, there are also more sudden changes like those caused by whole gen migration and chromosomal mutations.
You made a raft of claims, and cited a text book and when someone asks you to post a quote and offer corroborating texts to support them you resort to pathetic ad hominem.
Q1) Does it (text book your citation) say macro evolution occurs over less, more or the same timescale as microevolution?
Q2) Are you claiming the text says they occur on the same timescales? Could you quote that please, and offer some other sources that agree.
Q3) Also if it agrees that speciation occurs why do you deny it? I did ask if you agree with everything in the text book? Otherwise we're back to you using selection bias to cherry picking only the facts that align with your religious beliefs. Am I going to get an answer?
Q4) Could you provide half a dozen citations to peer reviewed research that supports your claim that macro and micro evolution are not part of the same process, but are separate processes, and that timescales are irrelevant?
Try again, or let us all enjoy watching your dishonest obfuscation.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI
As for unintelligent questions you actually started a thread asking atheists if they doubted their doubts about superstitious beliefs in deities, and it is you not me who is denying scientific facts, and I am not the one who started multiple threads claiming the bible denounced slavery, but refusing to even discuss any texts that actually mentioned slavery in every single one of them.
@Orignal Post:
Oooh, someone that thinks evolution in its entirety is not a thing. *licks chops* easy prey!
You do realize you sound like a flat earther right? To deny evolution at this point is roughly the equivalent. And to say this when you claim you are not religious, you do not even have the excuse of "oh hey god created earth 6000 years ago and magicked everything into being! Also realize; despite every reason for major religions to try to defend the idea that evolution is not a thing, many major religions now admit that evolution is a thing. (Just god designed.)
You say you cannot see it with your eyes. Well, if your local museum that features natural history and science is not good enough for ya, you can see evolution happen on a much faster time scale, right in your own home for less than 100 bucks. They have these kits you can order online, where you get a tank, fruit fly eggs, and some instructions.
I will leave the exciting part of doing the experiment for you to find out and not spoil that fun, but the conclusion is this: Evolution is real, and almost like a god, you yourself made it happen within a few months with your very own hands to observe with your very own eyes. You can even squish the flies you caused evolutionary change too, if you so pleased, (you wrathful god you!)
@LtW
AAAAAaaaaand its a SMACKDOWN!!! Ooops changed sports there, but only so I can award 100 likes to this post...
yeah, he's down with that close line.. that was brutality oldman...
Ltw is lit...slay them all..grrrrr...!!!!
By saying there is no observable evidence you have already demonstrated that you don't have any serious knowledge of the subject. It appears that your opinion on this subject is worthless. It's easy to attack straw-men versions of evolution. Addressing the real thing is a wholly different ball game.
Hard to take anyone serious who speaks about "kinds" and "missing links".
To be honest it's hard not to feel sorry for anyone so woefully ill-informed, it gets a little harder to be sympathetic when they show they have some understanding of small parts of the subject but don't seem to grasp that science if not some grand atheist conspiracy, though only when it disagrees with their religious beliefs you understand. Then pretend they don't notice their bias.
Up Sentry: "I do not believe evolution was a thing"
Go collect your Nobel Prize!
@ All
* stretches and washes shiraz stained glasses, empties uneaten popcorn and stretches before going to bed* That was a GREAT thread. Thank you all...*nudges Tin Man* "Oy, Clanker! Wake up, shows over" *Kicks rusting hulk until he groans, and staggers into the outside world*
@Old Man
*yawning and stretching*... Huh? What's up?....*wiping drool from side of face*... Did I miss anything?...
@Up Sentry
you said
"I have not agenda to push other then getting bragging rights by winning in this deeebate. Good luck."
then you said
"( to my credit, I won the debate)"
and you didn't bragged about it huh??(*tilting head & raising eyebrow)
This is a hilarious thread.
I would like to know how to delete my account from this site.
"This is a hilarious thread."
you think?
"I would like to know how to delete my account from this site."
this is my reply:
this is a hilarious post.!! you can't delete it, you just have to leave it and don't log-in no more.
why suddenly leave? you just came in...
I guess the only way to do it is to break the rules ;)
Suicide by cop (admin)
how do I find this person?
@Qu@si
Is logging out the only way to delete my account here?
cyb already answered your question..thank you..bye.......!!!!
bon voyage...
@ All
Agreed this is a hilarious thread :)
His atheist friends will be reading this thread, I wonder how he will deal with that?
We can't exactly award him a win, no less a tie if he cuts and runs.
@David Killens "We can't exactly award him a win" but we could all give him a cheery good-bye. (~)0 (~)0 (~)0 (~)0 (~)0 (~)0 Beers are on me!
All together now~ FOR HE'S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOW, FOR HE'S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOW, FOR HE'S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOW....... LET'S HELP HIM ON THE BUS.
HE GOT NOTHING TO DISCUSS, NOTHING TO DISCUSS, WE HATE TO SAY GOODBYE BUT "GOOD BYE" IS WHAT WE MUST. GOOD BYE!!!
Well one assumes they've tired of explaining this to him themselves, and sent him here?
How can anyone think they can "win" an online discussion in which they deny a scientific fact, and after they've shown unequivocally they are woefully ignorant of both the subject matter and basic scientific methods?
If someone is willfuly ignorant there's not much you can do about it except point and laugh.
New species are frequently observed in nature and in controlled scientific studies.
Was it something we said?
@David Killens: Every time you post, I want to go watch reruns of Fawlty Towers --- Or Life of Brian. Or .... "I know a dead parrot when I see one. helloooo Polleeeee Wake up!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SB4gB3DEhA
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