Faith

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Pistós's picture
Faith

Peace to all who read this. I’m not posting to offend anyone, I respect you all and the administrator that provides this forum for us. I’m a former atheist. I’d like to speak about the undeniable reality of evil. The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing. With all of our scientific and technological advancements, humanity has yet to progress in our nature. We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there’s is corruption in every facet of our communities. A mass shooting occurred in a New Zealand mosque recently, The rich were discovered to be scamming their way into Ivy League schools while taking spots from hardworking honest poorer people, and the Catholic Church is rife with sexual misconduct. Remember, while your celebrating your freedom of non-religion, we are still enslaved to evil desires. This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation. My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ.

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Sapporo's picture
If Jesus knows we exist,

If Jesus knows we exist, wouldn't it make more sense for him to find us?

From what I understand from Christian dogma, Jesus already died and has saved humanity from its sins, thus we are not accountable for them.

Sheldon's picture
"I’m a former atheist. "

"I’m a former atheist. "

Sigh, oh joy another one who can't simply call themselves a theist, but has to trumpet it as if they've been cured of non-belief.

" The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing."

What a particularly stupid thing to say, and wilfully has only 3 l's in it.

"With all of our scientific and technological advancements, humanity has yet to progress in our nature."

Our nature is billions of years in the making, science is few hundred years old, so again this seems like vapid rhetoric to me.

" We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there’s is corruption in every facet of our communities. "

Actually as individuals we are less likely to meet a violent death now that any time in human history. Try reading...

The Better Angels of Our Nature: A History of Violence and Humanity
By Steven Pinker.

"A mass shooting occurred in a New Zealand mosque recently,"

Hardly represents a plague, but there will always be people who think their beliefs trump the rights of others.These were christians of course, so it's hard to see how you can claim your beliefs are an antidote. Christianity has been causing mass murder since it was first created.

"The rich were discovered to be scamming their way into Ivy League schools while taking spots from hardworking honest poorer people,"

Wow, rich people using their wealth to their advantage, this is stunning news. I'll bet this has never happened in human history before....and breath one two three....irony overload, that was close.

"Catholic Church is rife with sexual misconduct. "

It's based on a lie, and corrupt to the core, and has always had an unhealthy puritanical attitude towards sex.

"Remember, while your celebrating your freedom of non-religion, we are still enslaved to evil desires. "

Another theist who doesn't know how to spell an abbreviation of you are, and no one is enslaved to evil desires, we all have a choice, so that's just idiotic rhetoric. Though I look forward to you claiming your deity gave us all free will in your next breath.

" This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation. My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ."

Vapid superstitious nonsense. Now, find a pulpit if you want to preach, this is a debate forum, so piss or get off the pot please.

WHAT OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE CAN YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR ANY DEITY OR DEITIES?

arakish's picture
@ Pistós

@ Pistós

Faith

Peace to all who read this. I’m not posting to offend anyone, I respect you all and the administrator that provides this forum for us. I’m a former atheist. I’d like to speak about the undeniable reality of evil. The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing. With all of our scientific and technological advancements, humanity has yet to progress in our nature. We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there’s is corruption in every facet of our communities. A mass shooting occurred in a New Zealand mosque recently, The rich were discovered to be scamming their way into Ivy League schools while taking spots from hardworking honest poorer people, and the Catholic Church is rife with sexual misconduct. Remember, while your celebrating your freedom of non-religion, we are still enslaved to evil desires. This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation. My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ.

"Im a former atheist." I feel sorry for you. You just sank into the horrible den of Pure Evil known as religion. Before you piss all over me, consider these questions …

  • Are your religious beliefs open to criticism? If not, then any ideology that cannot suffer criticism is inherently evil.
  • How does your religion treat its children? Does it drill its ideology using the threat of Hell? Any ideology that resorts to mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism is inherently evil.
  • Does your religion preach about the concept of free will? Then how can one have free will to choose with the threat of Hell? Any ideology that supports the eternal damnation and torment of non-believers is inherently evil.
  • Does your religion view all of its believers going to heaven and non-believers going to hell? Then any ideology that presupposes its believers are superior to all others is inherently evil.
  • Are you a Catholic? Any ideology that protects its members from criminal prosecution is inherently evil.
  • Do you believe in the Bible/Qu'ran? Then any ideology that supports the demoralization and bigoted hatred of others is inherently evil.
  • Do you believe in the Bible/Qu'ran? Then any ideology that states we are to obey and believe as we are told is inherently evil.
  • Do you believe in the concept of Original Sin (i.e. – the Garden of Eden myth?)? Then any ideology that psychologically terrorizes its children/people by telling them they are born evil/sinful, born of evil/sin, born into evil/sin, born from evil/sin, and must have a human-created make-believe Sky Faerie, Magic Lich Virgin, and Rather Comical Spook to save them is inherently evil.

Now truly think about your new-found human-created make-believe fantasy world. Use critical thinking, logical and deductive reasoning, and rational and analytical thought. Additionally, put everything you hold true about this fantasy world through the Scientific Method. If it cannot muster, then it is all untruths and lies.

Factual Truths: FACTS — Formulated Accurately Codified Truth in Science.

Religious Faiths: FAITH — Falsehoods Assumptions Innuendos and Treasonous Hypocrisy.

And then apply everything to the 11 razors …

The Eleven Razors:

  1. Sagan's Razor: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
  2. Hitchens's Razor: What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
  3. Arakish's Razor: NO EVIDENCE = NO EXISTENCE. Or, if there is no evidence for "it," then "it" does not exist.
  4. Xenoview's Razor: Objective claims requires objective evidence.
  5. Randomhero1982's Razor: If it's not evidenced, it's bollocks.
  6. Cognostic's Razor: Any dweeb can make an assertion.
  7. LogicFTW's Razor: You MUST first prove your religion/claim is not a con.
  8. CyberLN's Razor: A nice vinaigrette dressing must be served with any word salad.
  9. Nyarlathotep's Razor: Homines quod muta (People is dumb).
  10. Philip K. Dick's Razor: Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
  11. Tin-Man's Butter Knife: Any ridiculous nonsense presented will be countered with opposing ridiculous nonsense of an equal or greater amount.
  • Cognostic's Shovel: When someone starts slinging bullshit at you, get a shovel and sling it back.

"I’d like to speak about the undeniable reality of evil."

Me too. You just joined the most evil organizations ever to be created by the human species. They are called religion.

"The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing."

You are preaching to wrong people dude. Only those who can think rationally can also truly know where evil lurks.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion.” — Steven Weinberg

"With all of our scientific and technological advancements, humanity has yet to progress in our nature."

Horse Hoowhee!! We know tons of more information about human behavior and how the mind works than ever before in the history of the human species. Me thinks you need to go back to school, quit skipping classes, and graduate. Come back in ten years when you have earned a Baccalaureate in one of the physical sciences, preferably astrophysics or evolutionary genetics.

"We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there is corruption in every facet of our communities. A mass shooting occurred in a New Zealand mosque recently, the rich were discovered to be scamming their way into Ivy League schools while taking spots from hardworking honest poorer people, and the Catholic Church [do not forget the Baptist Bible Belters] is rife with sexual misconduct."

And I have often wondered why all this "evil" is still visited upon the human species. I did a GIS analysis about this.

A GIS Research Analysis into the GOOD of Religion

Current research evidence does not support the common view that religiosity is positively correlated with good morality,” said Sam Harris.

In fact, I used QGIS software, and the most recent TIGER data from the Census Bureau and crime data files from the FBI (as of December 2017) to see how correct his statement is. Hell, the FBI files took about a month to download because there are so many. It took me several months to compile all the files into a single geodatabase, but my research has shown that the more religious a population, the higher the crime rates, specifically violent crime. While the same research shows that the more educated (thus, less religious) a population, the lower the crime rates. If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

Here are some research numbers:
Bold = Highly educated; persons with at least a Master’s degree or higher; or multiple (2+) Baccalaureate or higher degrees.
Emphasis = Highly religious; persons with only a high school diploma, or no high school diploma; Associate’s degree or lower, or no degrees; or home schooled.

This is only in the United States, perhaps the most religious nation on Earth (excepting some Muslim nations).

  • Of the 25 states with the lowest rates of crime, 5 are red, 20 are green (a 1:4 ratio).
  • Of the 25 states with the highest rates of crime, 19 are red, 6 are green (a 3:1 ratio).
  • Of the 25 most dangerous cities, 22 are red, 3 are green (a 7:1 ratio).
  • Of the 20 most safest cities, only 2 are red, 18 are green (a 1:9 ratio).
  • Of the 19 states with the highest rates of burglary, 16 are red, 3 are green (a 5:1 ratio).
  • Of the 22 states with the highest rates of theft, 18 are red, 4 are green (a 4:1 ratio).
  • Of the 22 states with the highest rates of murder, 19 are red, 3 are green (a 6:1 ratio).

Notes on how I chose these listings. With the cities/states I chose enough from the list to get at least “3” of whichever color. The only exceptions are the 20 most safest cities due to the fact that to get a third “red” city, I would have had to take the top 38 most safest cities making it 3 are red, 35 are green giving a ratio of 1:12. I figured a 1:9 ratio was bad enough. And to really add insult to injury, to get the fourth “red” safest city, it would been 52 cities making it 4 are red, 48 are green, still a 1:12 ratio. And you call us atheists dangerous and immoral, and to be trusted less than rapists and murderers?

And to add more insult to injury, the first red “most safest” city does not appear until number 16. And to pour more salt in the wound, in the “most dangerous” cities, the three green ones are numbers 19, 22, and 25. So much for atheism being so dangerous!

On the highest theft, I could have stopped at 21 cities making 18 are red, 3 are green. Since adding the 22nd city would lower the ratio (from 6:1 to 4:1) I decided to be a nice guy and cut you Religious Absolutists some slack. I also made it match the number of highest murder states.

I made the choices above just so I would not have to listen to your weenie-whiney-ass pleas about being a vindictive atheist. See, us atheists are actually good people.

Reiteration: If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

These I could NOT cut any slack for you Religious Absolutists. More shocking numbers on the goodness of religion (researched as an afterthought):

  • 93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian %O (a 13:1 ratio).
  • 84% of all inmates identify themselves as religious believers (a 5:1 ratio).
  • 0.02% of inmates identify themselves as Atheist, meaning only 1 in 5000 are Atheist.

And look again at the first one. This definitely warrants a full-blown: “What the Fucking God Damn Hell is wrong with you Christians?

I mean, “93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian?!?” And since, when?, the mid-80s?, this has really come back to bite you Christians in the ass.

Remember, use critical thinking, logical and deductive reasoning, and rational and analytical thought.

"Remember, while your celebrating your freedom of non-religion, we are still enslaved to evil desires."

And looking above, it would seem the true reason is due to religion.

"This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation."

The only saving the human species needs is the complete and utter annihilation of all religion.

"My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross."

And I shall be the first to say that you are going to be waiting for a LONG fucking time. Jesus never existed. At least not as you think it existed.

"I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ."

I would rather have truth, facts, and evidence any day of the week than the bullshit lies you are spewing.

Have a Great Day! Love ya. ***really sloppy thick syrupy tree smooch***

rmfr

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Pistós - The fact that people

Pistós - The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong...

If I met someone on the street who claimed to have full knowledge of right and wrong, I would try to get away from them as quickly as possible.

arakish's picture
@ Nyarlathotep

@ Nyarlathotep

I might have to plagiarize that one too. LMAO

rmfr

dogalmighty's picture
I am sorry for your delusion.

I am sorry for your delusion...there is no such thing as evil, it is of religious construct , so is not real. What is real, are things that can be evidenced in reality...as biblical evil is supernatural, it is not part of reality...same with god...there is no metric to measure them...that is why there is no evidence they exist. The probability of a giant interstellar jellyfish named Bob wandering the universe, is far far more likely than your belief system. You see, you have to abide by nature's laws, or you can't play at all. Your repeated failure at reason and appearance on an atheist site, does nothing but help the strengthening of atheism...So, thank you. Come again.

arakish's picture
doG: "The probability of a

doG: "The probability of a giant interstellar jellyfish named Bob wandering the universe, is far far more likely than your belief system."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMCBFSWBAzM

rmfr

David Killens's picture
Hello Pistós

Hello Pistós

I find it interesting that for two of the three examples you provided for "evil", religion was heavily involved.

And according to some religions, mankind has already had some "saviors". Considering the conditions you are unhappy with, it appears they did not do a good enough job. So why should we expect any new "savior" to do what other "saviors" have failed at?

I am a licensed electrician, and when tasked with repairs or new construction, I am expected to get the job done right the first time. If there is a problem or I screwed up, it is reasonable for the contractor to look elsewhere because I am a screw-up.

Maybe this wacky world does need a fix. But since "saviors" tried, and obviously failed, let's go down another route.

Tin-Man's picture
Like the man says, ladies and

Like the man says, ladies and gentlemen, you gotta have faith! Sing it, Brother George!...

https://youtu.be/6ISHYtccEs0

dogalmighty's picture
https://www.youtube.com/watch
Sky Pilot's picture
Pistós,

Pistós,

"Peace to all who read this. I’m not posting to offend anyone, I respect you all and the administrator that provides this forum for us. I’m a former atheist. I’d like to speak about the undeniable reality of evil. The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing. With all of our scientific and technological advancements, humanity has yet to progress in our nature. We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there’s is corruption in every facet of our communities. A mass shooting occurred in a New Zealand mosque recently, The rich were discovered to be scamming their way into Ivy League schools while taking spots from hardworking honest poorer people, and the Catholic Church is rife with sexual misconduct. Remember, while your celebrating your freedom of non-religion, we are still enslaved to evil desires. This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation. My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ."

Welcome to the lake of fire. I, like the majority of posters on this forum to varying degrees, do not believe in any God, especially Yahweh or Allah, and do not believe that Yeshua (Jesus) existed as depicted in the Bible. But unlike them I will never ask you to prove your claims because I know that you just claim to believe in an imaginary set of characters in an ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish religious fairy tale.

The reality is that not one person in human history has ever actually had faith in the Yeshua character because not one person has ever been able o do what he said that a person with faith can easily do.

Luke 17:6 (NKJV) = "So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you."

Matthew 21:21 (CEV) = "But Jesus said to them, “If you have faith and don’t doubt, I promise that you can do what I did to this tree. And you will be able to do even more. You can tell this mountain to get up and jump into the sea, and it will."

Mark 16:17-18 (ERV) = "17 And the people who believe will be able to do these things as proof: They will use my name to force demons out of people. They will speak in languages they never learned. 18 If they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be hurt. They will lay their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

So you have a choice of things you can do to prove that your faith is real to yourself. It is not a good idea to toss a mountain into the sea because the resuting waves will cause a lot of death and destruction. But a tree is doable.

There have been a lot of movies made about demons inhabitating people. Do you believe in demons? If so go cure people of them.

You can learn a new language if you take the time to do it. But to prove that you have real faith you should be able to speak and write 6,500 languages. That will be impressive.

People handle snakes all the time. They "milk" the poisonous ones beforehand. Just last week a homeowner saw a few rattlesnakes at his place and the exterminator found 45 of the critters. If you had faith you could have walked in there and picked them all up barehanded without any negative consequences.

If you are thirsty you can take a chance and drink a glass full of poison. But if you make out your will beforehand it might indicate that you lack faith. It is not a good idea to do this unless you have done all of the other tests first. Walk across a deep pond barefoot instead. Even Peter was able to do that for a few steps.

But maybe you want to do some good. So go to the nearest hospital and lay your hands on the sick patients. Your faith will immediately cure them. But you have to be careful or you might get busted for practicing medicine without a license. The doctors and hospital will be pissed at losing their inventory so you might want to start out by curing your sick relatives and friends in private.

So do you really have the faith that you claim you have? Even the writers who wrote the stories didn't have any faith because they never did any of those things themselves. But you can convince at least yourself that you have actual, true faith.

As discussed, some of those things are risky so start out small. Command a piece of trash to jump into the trash can. Once you have mastered simple things like that you can move on to more complex things. And one day you will be able to make Mount Everest disappear and become the first person in history to have ever really believed in the Jesus character.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Dio

@ Dio

Now this is why I like having you around

,Magnificent sir! 10.000,000 agrees to you.....

Tin-Man's picture
@Dio

@Dio

Dammit, man. That was spectacular.... *respectfully bowing at waist*...

Cognostic's picture
1. "I’d like to speak about

1. "I’d like to speak about the undeniable reality of evil."

Well, I guess we are off to a bad start. Evil is a subjective term that is used to describe certain types of disasters or acts that appear particularly callous, amoral, or malevolent. (Burning down a school with children in it, for example. We just don't know what to think of such an act so we call it "evil.")

2. The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong do wrong?

Obviously you have never heard of moral dilemmas. Your thinking is dualistic (You are engaged in fallacious black and white thinking) and simplistic. When people engage in these behaviors they are removed from society. We lock them up or kill them. (Contingent on the degree of antisocial behavior.)

What you are doing is arguing against the existence of your all powerful creator god who can respond to prayers and influence events in this world. Your god is the one that just hangs around the bedroom while a rapist has his way with a young girl and then slits her throat. Your god is the one who sits in the car when a good Christian mother drives her three children into a lake drowning them all. If you want to see REAL evil, READ YOUR BIBLE. There is nothing human beings do that your God did not do first,.

3 "we are still enslaved to evil desires"

Yes, wow! I am enslaved to evil desires. I have spent my life raping, murdering, sexually molesting, stealing, and burning down the homes of each and every person I have ever wanted to force my evil upon. I have effected the lives of absolutely ZERO people with my evil acts. Why? BECAUSE I DON'T FUCKING HAVE URGES TO DO EVIL ACTS. I'm just like the rest of the people in the world.

(Once again you are engaged in fallacious thinking. The fallacy HASTY GENERALIZATION arises when one infers that something is true of the whole from the fact that it is true of some part of the whole. You have reached an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. You have cherry picked sensational news events and ignored the rest of the world.

4. This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation.

Two points here. First, You apparently have a savior and he is sitting on his ass doing nothing. What good is he? The savior you have is a worthless piece of shit. Do you mean we need a different savior? Are you proposing some god outside your murdering, jealous, raping biblical god? Which one and why?

What evidence can you present that would demonstrate your savior is capable of providing some sort of salvation. Salvation from what? Is he going to pay off my house? Will he begin growing legs on amputees. Will he stop the volcanoes from killing people. Perhaps he will stop sitting in bedrooms and begin saving rape victims instead of just watching them. Whatever salvation this magical being of your is offering, so far it is not working.

5. "Jesus Christ and his work on the cross." I didn't know he did any work on the cross. I thought he just hung there and pretended to die.

6. I hope you will take your stupid Christ savior dude and shove him up your ass. Obviously he is not doing his job and is completely unworthy of any level of friendship and worshiping him would be completely INSANE.

algebe's picture
@Pistos: This world is in

@Pistos: This world is in dire need of a savior and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation.

The world needs a savior as much it needs another Dear Leader, Fuehrer or Il Duce, etc.

So thank you. But no thank you.

terraphon's picture
I tried to read it but it's

I tried to read it but it's yet another unformatted, poorly punctuated, run on block of word-salad shit.

What is it with what seem to be the inherent illiteracy of the modern theist?

Sheldon's picture
"What is it with what seem to

"What is it with what seem to be the inherent illiteracy of the modern theist?"

There is quite a bit of research spanning decades that indicates a negative correlation between education and religiosity.

Simply put in large demographics from multiple countries studied, religious belief particularly theistic belief, decreases in direct proportion to education increasing.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: OP - "I hope that many of

Re: OP - "I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ."

Hey, with a gift like faith, who needs a handicap?

Calilasseia's picture
Ok, I'll bite.

Ok, I'll bite.

Let's take a look at this, shall we?

Peace to all who read this.

Why does this opening lead me to expect canards and word salad in large quantity, before I go any further? Oh, this might have much to do with past observational data to this effect. Let's see if we have a discordant outlier here, shall we?

I’m not posting to offend anyone

I see such assertions being presented frequently. What happens to those assertions after test usually has a habit of being interesting.

I respect you all and the administrator that provides this forum for us.

Still waiting for you to move on to the substance here ...

I’m a former atheist.

And at this point, my bullshit meter's needle is pegged to the far right hand side, and the "signal overload" warning light is flashing like mad.

Have you any idea how many times, the membership here has seen the "I used to be an atheist" trope peddled by supernaturalists? It's practically standard operating procedure for some of the more duplicitous ones to open their posting careers with this assertion, only for examination of relevant data to demonstrate that the individuals in question have no proper, substantive knowledge about atheism, or the actual thoughts expressed by atheists. All too often, we see canards that have been subject previously to massive discoursive bombardment, being resurrected in posts like this. It's reached the point where some of us are wondering if there's a troll factory manufacturing "ex-atheists", set up by some sleazy "evangelical" church with connections to people like Joel Osteen and the Koch Brothers.

So, with that large body of past observational data to bring into play, let's see how well this goes, shall we?

I’d like to speak about the undeniable reality of evil.

And at this point, we're already moving into some tricky conceptual territory. Conceptual territory that is tricky, because there is no universally accepted definition of 'evil' enjoying general applicability. At best, 'evil' is a shorthand for "acts we find repellent, on the basis that said acts inflict harm upon other human beings". At this point, I'll avoid the whole animal welfare realm, as this will serve only to complicate the picture still further for the purposes of my exposition, and again, past observational data tells me that supernaturalists tend to need spoon-feeding with even elementary concepts.

The problem with using the word 'evil' as a shorthand for this, centres upon another elementary observable fact. Namely, that attributing a motivation for the acts in question, in numerous cases requires diligent effort. Taking the easy route of merely presuming that a given harmful act was the product of wilful malice, has led in the past to horrific iniquities and injustices. It's one of the reasons that we employ paid professionals in law enforcement and the realm of jurisprudence, because the moment that developed societies began constructing the requisite infrastructure and using it, we quickly learned that simplistic views of right and wrong were woefully insufficient to embrace the space of possible human activities and motivations.

Indeed, I was reminded of this only yesterday, when a video clip was presented to my YouTube news feed, featuring a police chase in Ohio. Without any background context, an observer watching that video clip would very likely wonder if the individual being pursued was an escaped felon, or on the "wanted" list for murder or drug trafficking. When the police chase ended, after some fairly frightening 100 mph plus driving during the chase in question, and the individual was apprehended, the woman in question was asked why she ran from the police, and during the chase, displayed numerous other examples of recklessly stupid behaviour. The answer? She said "I'm late for work".

You can watch that chase here. The news article in question is here.

This, of course, provides an insight into the origin of the aphorism "do not attribute to malice, that which is better explained by stupidity". Indeed, a good number of harmful actions by human beings arise through failure to engage one's neurons properly, and one of the lessons taught in any properly constituted classes on such topics as ethics, is that in order simply to function as an ethical being even on an elementary level, care and diligence is frequently required. Of course, this does not mean for one moment that genuine, observable and demonstrable examples of wilful malice do not exist, and I take care to state this explicitly, as a result of having been subject to duplicitous misrepresentation in the past by the usual suspects among the supernaturalists who visit rationalist forums - a direct example of the wilful malice I am aware exists.

Indeed, the very question of how to distinguish between wilful malice and other motivations, is one that exercises minds in jurispridence and ethical philosophy long into the night. Superficial and binary thinking simply doesn't work in the real world, because the real world is phenomenologically complex, and renders such superficial binary thinking null and void.

So, before you launch into assertions such as "the undeniable reality of evil", you had better have a lot of thorough prior groundwork to call upon, because if you haven't, the requisite deficits will be exposed here ruthlessly.

Moving on ...

The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing.

And indeed, I've just expounded on numerous relevant issues above.

With all of our scientific and technological advancements, humanity has yet to progress in our nature.

Actually, quite a few of us have made progress in this vein, but of course there are those who have not. The mere existence of criminals provides the relevant observational evidence in this matter.

But, and this is another point that needs to be made explicit here, is that making such progress requires diligent effort on our part. Indeed, it is precisely because I have exercised diligent effort learning about the requisite applicable concepts, that I harbour deep suspicions about supernaturalism, not least because the mythologies presented as purportedly containing all the solutions to the issues, are frequently found to contain assertions that are themselves ethically suspect.

Indeed, one dilemma that I am aware of, is this: how does one act, if presented with a situation in which making ethical progress requires one to commit an ethically suspect act? That dilemma has exercised philosophers for quite some time, and you may find that much has been written on the matter, yet despite the requisite deliberations, no elegant solution has been alighted upon. Indeed, I am aware of how mythologies frequently fail dismally to provide substantive information even allowing the dilemma to be recognised, let alone solved.

In addition, you will find that science has made significant progress with respect to the matter of determining the basis for both our capacity for ethical thought, and the motivation to act upon said thought. Since the requisite dissertations are too long to repeat in full here, I shall simply point you to this post, where I covered the matter of priming, and this post covering the relevant advances in neuroscience and behavioural ecology. You may find those posts informative.

In the meantime, I have a nice little puzzle to present to you. Recently, this website was subject to a distributed denial of service attack, presumably by one or more supernaturalists who didn't like the information being disseminated here. You might like to ask yourself how, if the attackers in question were supernaturalists, how they can assert with a straight face that their morality comes from their mythological magic man of choice, whilst at the same time engaging in an act that is punishable in law, and performed explicitly with the intent of silencing proper discourse.

We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there’s is corruption in every facet of our communities. A mass shooting occurred in a New Zealand mosque recently, The rich were discovered to be scamming their way into Ivy League schools while taking spots from hardworking honest poorer people, and the Catholic Church is rife with sexual misconduct.

My remarks about diligence are apposite here.

Remember, while your celebrating your freedom of non-religion, we are still enslaved to evil desires.

No we're not. I haven't engaged in any of the above, so you might like to ask yourself, why haven't I done this, if your assertion is true?

Or, for that matter, why I, and many others here, haven't engaged in a whole raft of malign behaviours, if your assertion is true?

This world is in dire need of a savior

Except that this assertion has some unpleasant historical baggage attached thereto. I suggest you read about some of that baggage.

and mere mortals are proven incapable of providing salvation.

This assumes that there is something we need "saving from" in the first place, and further assumes that solving relevant problems is beyond the remit of properly educated individuals. Both of these assumptions are suspect.

My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross.

And what sort of "work" can be performed in the field of solving ethical problems, by being nailed to some pieces of wood? Do tell.

I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ.

No thanks, not least because I recognise that faith is nothing more than uncritical treatment of mythological assertions as true, regardless of how much real world data says otherwise. A practice that has demonstrable and observable malign consequences. You might like to ask yourself why some of the most ardent supernaturalists, including ardent adherents of the mythology you subscribe to, have been among the most pestilential people to have existed.

Cognostic's picture
@Pistós "undeniable

@Pistós "undeniable reality of evil." Ha ha ha ha ha ha ....... I deny it. People do things I don't like and I call it evil. Evil is not a thing. It is a value judgment.

"The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing." Failure to bond / lack of empathy has always been a trait in some humans. It has nothing to do with evil. Sociopaths, Psychopaths, people who make poor decisions and the rest; have always been a part of the human experience. NOTHING EVIL HERE. Just people doing shit things.

"My hope is in Jesus Christ and his work on the cross. I hope that many of you, dear friends, will also receive the gift of faith that will lead you to Christ."

TROLL - Another "One Post Wonder."
So, you are asserting Jesus is not God? God himself has engaged in more murderous atrocities than anyone you could possibly name who you would identify as Evil.

What in the hell makes you think Jesus Was Not Evil. Any asshole that makes a whip and beats people while destroying their livelihoods is an evil bastard. Any jerk that would kill a herd of pigs for no reason at all when he did not have to is an ass. Anyone that would tell me that I had to hate my family to follow him is a piece of shit. Anyone who has a philosophy of "Think not of tomorrow" ("Don't pay the rent, don't plan for school, don't save money, don't care for your kids or put money on the table, drop everything and follow him because the world will end tomorrow" REFERENCE THE SERMON ON THE MOUNT) Is a fucking dick and an evil son of a bitch. Not only does Jesus kill pigs for no reason at all but he curses trees that do not bear fruit out of season. Of course he is also a dick for hiding the truth from you. You could not learn anything from Jesus on your best day for he has hidden the truth from you,,, "That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them." Jesus wants you to burn in hell. If there is another interpretation of this other than Jesus essentially saying “I don’t want to be too clear otherwise everyone will get into heaven” I would love to hear it.
Jesus is also a piece of shit for asserting that people should do as he says and not as he does. Numerous times Jesus asserts, "Do not call someone a fool, whoever says "fool" shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." And what does he do? He runs about the New Testament calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with him a "FOOL." (Matthew 23:17) - "You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold?"

Let's top this off with the fact that the Religion you believe in supports slavery, mutilation of human beings as punishment, and all manner of horrific acts of violence. If you want to see real EVIL - Go look in the mirror.

Sheldon's picture
"Evil is not a thing. It is a

"Evil is not a thing. It is a value judgment."

Amen to that...now go, and sin some more.

Kataclismic's picture
I have more faith in garden

I have more faith in garden fairies. Have you seen my strawberries?

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toto974's picture
I should earn one euro each

I should earn one euro each time, one BELIEVER come here and tell us this.

Sheldon's picture
"I’m a former atheist."

"I’m a former atheist."

What objective evidence can you demonstrate that made you start believing in a deity?

Evil is a word we use to describe behaviours we find unconscionable and wicked, but these are based on subjective perception. The fact that evolved primates often behave in ways other evolved primates think is wrong hardly requires anything supernatural to explain it.

You're also implying religion is the answer, yet the vast majority of people are religious, and your examples involved conflicts that are ostensibly about religious beliefs.

Religious violence has always existed. What's more the bible and Koran both endorse barbaric cruelty like slavery and murder as two examples, things that I would consider evil. How does believing either religious book help stop "evil" when you'd still have cherry pick your way through some pretty vile diktat?

Cognostic's picture
@Pistos RE: FAITH - The

@Pistos RE: FAITH - The Truth
Peace to all who read this. I’m not posting to offend anyone, It is not possible for me to respect any of you. According to the Holy Qua;aran "The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89" - "I can not be friends with any non-muslims. 3:118 " - "You are all an open enemy to me. 4:101" and lastly "My only friends should be Allah, Muhammad, and those who believe correctly (Muslims). 5:55"

You all and the administrator that provides this forum for us "Are all Enemies of Allah 2:98" I’m a former disbeliever but now I will go to heaven and have sex with 42 virgins. Great to be me. Sucks to be you. . I’d like to convince you of the undeniable reality of evil. The fact that people with full knowledge of right and wrong continue to willfully do the wrong thing. With all of our Islamic peace and love; with out total submission to Allah, humanity has yet to progress in our nature. We are plagued by suffering of all kinds and there’s is corruption in every Mosque. We continue throwing homosexuals off of buildings. We force women to cover their bodies from head to foot and when they do not cover up, we rape them on buses. The Prophet Muhammad raped a 9 year old girl and because he married her when she was six, he thought he had the right to "THIGH" her until she was 9. Islamic schools in Britain and in the USA warn Muslims not to dress like the heathens around them. Muslims in Sweeden are rife with misconduct as they grope and rape Swedish women on the streets. This religion is in dire need of a check up from the neck up and mere Muslims are proven incapable of providing any sort of intelligence towards the situation. They would rather blow themselves up than grow up . My hope is in people who fly their planes into buildings. Perhaps these people will convince the world that Islam is a threat and then the world will wake up, rally against Islam, and do something to save us all.
I hope that many of you, dear friends, will soon be free of faith this faith that will lead you to complete submission to Allah and utter and complete ignorance.
.
PS - Now I am a Christian so I feel so much better about myself. We only bomb abortion clinics, beat our children to death, attack Mosques in New Zealand, and of course, Kill Jews. Praise the Lord.

toto974's picture
@Cog,

@Cog,

Wicked sense of humor, as usual, but a wonderful demonstration of the OP's diatribe.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: OP rewrite

@Cog Re: OP rewrite

LMAO... Nailed it!...LMAO...

And in the words of Mr. Simpson...
https://youtu.be/8DYje57V_BY

arakish's picture
And without clicking the link

And without clicking the link, let me guess, "Doh!"

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
@Arakish Re: "Doh!"

@Arakish Re: "Doh!"

Nope! Try again!... lol

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man

@ Tin-Man

At least I gave it a shot before looking. LMAO Good one.

rmfr

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