Suddenly some years ago, several notable persons (many of them Holocaust survivors) who knew of my artist's affinity for ancient architecture and huge interest about "the land between the two rivers" asked renowned American artist Marc Richard Rubin "Have you ever researched the people listed in Chronicles to find the descendants of Noah, in hopes this may determine, fact or fiction, of the biblical personage of Noah?"
www.FindingNoah.info is a interactive multi media documentary that answers among many questions: What geological events happened around about 12,000 years ago? How did humanity proceed? What meteorological event occurred in 3123 BCE that disrupted that growth and enabled dominators who rewrote history and continue to do so.
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I am so confused............
BS unbeliever?
Me too.
@Marc Rubin
Forum Guideline number 10
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http://www.marcrubin.com/
Propaganda is to put forth a lie. Inquiry with reason and conclusions based on logic is something else. To confine the infinite in a bottle is anathema. but then again
Freedom = Slavery
Ignorance = Truth
Boredom = Enlightenment
Can you stop with the criptic wording?
are u a physicist? just wondering.
BS Unbeliever, have you anything about which you would actually like to debate? So far, you've offered bupkus to that end.
I am dishonest because I believe God exists, but I resist urge to limit the "unending-neverending"? If I offered more proof, you would accuse it of being prop aganda also.
1 + 1 = 2
Truth or propaganda?
Q: How many restrooms are required at your local McDonalds?
A: It depends upon who is elected
BS Unbeliever:
The Noah story is a myth lifted from other cultures. The Noah in that story didn't exist. He didn't live for several centuries. There was no global flood. There isn't that much water on the surface of the planet. There may be enough water contained in rocks deep in the Earth, but assuming that you could somehow bring that all to the surface, how would you get rid of it all after the flood?
Noah couldn't have built a ship big enough to carry one flock of sheep, let alone two of every species. Even if he had, he wouldn't have been able to carry enough food and water for them all. There were no "land bridges" for animals to spread from Mt. Ararat to other continents. How did the kiwi get to New Zealand, the kangaroo to Australia, the penguins to Antarctica?
In short, the Noah story is about as believable as a Russel Crowe movie. Now that we have settled that issue, would you like to join me on an expediition to Lapland to find the real Santa Claus?
The word for "earth" in Hebrew Bible was the place that man lived. It wasn't the whole earth. Gotta keep your myths real. Helps with the science. and makes even more interesting to speculate on dating of megalithic structures (BaalBek, StoneHendge, places all over the earth and wonder how the top of the Andes were flattened like landing strips, and when, why and how this could have happened.?
Every bit of land on earth wasn't flooded. Every place Homo-Sapiens (who weren't all the sharpest knives in the drawer back then--still true) was drowned out. Man had to rebuild. They were "watched over". Consult any native-American among others.
For animal genetics, eg. there are three species of Dogs from which all others are bred. People grow wheat all over the world, but the original Einhorn Wheat comes from a region in Turkey right outside Gobekli Tepe, Turkey.. Why was the oldest structure dated on earth (10,000 BCE) buried after 2000 years? Why is this not a subject of discussion?
For migration of all non-indigenous flora and fauna - boats and wind? People used them a LONG TIME before automobiles and airplanes.
And Noah and others lived many long years. How can you disprove? Especially in our scientific age of miracles where we still act like children. You had better HOPE we are are being watched and cared for.
Athiesm to be skeptical and snarky is nasty. Even a self-professed athiest must be amazed and the simultaneous rise of technology and barbarism on planet earth and the precipice we are upon (even an athiest must sense this?)
I'm sure it's a very good television for others who are interested (because we come from them) I believe that. You don't.
"The word for "earth" in Hebrew Bible was the place that man lived."
Tefached.
"Every bit of land on earth wasn't flooded."
Because you were certainly there to witness it, right?
"Scientific miracles" is an oxymoron.
If its scientific, its not a miracle.
Miracles don't exist.
"You had better HOPE we are are being watched and cared for."
When did I give you the authority to decide what I must do? Oh! I didn't.
"How can you disprove?"
How can you prove? Remember: the onus is always on the claimant(s).
"Athiesm to be skeptical and snarky is nasty. "
Religiousness to be stuck up and grandiose is too.
"and the simultaneous rise of technology and barbarism on planet earth and the precipice we are upon"
Barbarism in today's world is a result of religion 9 times out of 10.
"The word for "earth" in Hebrew Bible was the place that man lived. It wasn't the whole earth. "
Here we go again. The Bible means one thing until science proves it wrong, and then it has to be interpreted to mean something totally different. Or was it just metaphor all along? I thought the story said that all people in the world were drowned, and that the only survivors were Noah and his family. Now it's just the population of a narrow stretch of the Middle East? When did that change? Before long it'll just be the guy in the house next door to Noah and his dog who were drowned.
"And Noah and others lived many long years. How can you disprove? "
I can't disprove it. But the burden of proof is on those who make the claim that Noah lived for centuries. It sounds a bit sci-fi don't you think? Anthropologists have studied remains from that era, including Egyptian mummies. They suffered from the same ailments as modern people and would have had shorter life expectancies due to the lack of medical science. They were also more exposed to disasters, such as crop failures. Besides, doesn't the Bible itself define the human lifespan as three score years and ten?
"top of the Andes were flattened like landing strips"
Ever heard of glaciers? Nature's bulldozers.
"For migration of all non-indigenous flora and fauna - boats and wind? People used them a LONG TIME before automobiles and airplanes."
So boats took kiwis to New Zealand about 50 million years ago? Do you know how far New Zealand is from everywhere? The first humans didn't get there until about 1,000 years ago. Why are there no kiwi fossils around Mt. Ararat?
"the simultaneous rise of technology and barbarism on planet earth and the precipice we are upon"
Apart from reality TV and music videos, the only barbarism I see today is the direct result of religion. What precipice? We are on the threshold of major discoveries and advances in medicine, the environment, energy, etc., that will transform the world for the better. All we need is for people to realize that this world, this life actually matters. Acting like children? You bet. Far too many people still surrender their reason to peddlers of fairy stories that encourage them to devalue the here and now.
Your apocalytic warning is just another form of religious terrorism.
It's also funny to note that the Greeks made a story almost EXACTLY like the Noah story before the Christian one was known to have existed.
Exactly my point about barbarism and religion! We are in complete agreement. As for you other statements, let's not get semantics get in the way.
"As for you other statements, let's not get semantics get in the way."
Isint that cherry picking to a degree?
" let's not get semantics get in the way."
Semantics? What do you mean by that?
Tefached. Interesting word. According to distubed.wikia.com is Hebrew for "you will fear" or "you will be afraid," possibly in imperative form ("you shall fear").
My only question, why did u use that phrase? If its from "Stupify" Disturbed album "The Sickness", I can only imagine its a cri de couer against stupidity. Again I agree.
The rest is small potatoes, mistaken hyperbole, etc.
And I am religious in no degree. makes my eyes roll.
And yet your profile clearly marks you non atheist. So are you agnostic? Apatheistic?
"And I am religious in no degree. makes my eyes roll."
So why do you describe yourself as "non-atheist" in your profile? That plus your suggestion that the Noah story might be true leads to the conclusion that you're some kind of theist. I've made my position fairly clear. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in any gods or anything supernatural. God is too trivial for me. I want the universe. I also believe that religions, especially Christianity and Islam, have caused immeasurable suffering and held back human progress.
Where do you stand?
The funny thing I have had the privilege to learn (intellectually, even if I'm not always aware of it) is that God (heb. Elohim --lit. "the unending-neverending") is like a fountain. According to Zohar "he" put a piece of his infinite being into this physical realm called "the universe" and exploded it like the fountain that it still remains, always growing and expanding. Yet Elohim is separate and apart from his creation though every bit of matter and energy is part of Elohim. and that's only the realm of the physical spectrum. What about the Chakra and music of the spheres, that Plato wrote about. (Ancient knowledge)
I believe that is doesn't matter to Elohim whether you believe or not. No this is not totalitarian religious rule. This is the invisible, unknowable, but as Donald Trump quoted "God's love is demonstrated through the love we show each other". We are in charge of our own destiny.
If you want to really blow your mind, here is www.theresonanceprinciple.com/ . I didn't make the movies. I'm not advertising. I'm just making people aware.
I'm confused again............
"I'm confused again."
I second that motion.
Chakra is an Indian concept with stems in the veda and Yogic practice. It has nothing to do with Plato
The claim that all of humanity 12,000 years ago existed in a small sliver of the middle east is ignorant .We know humans came from and by 12,000 years ago existed in Africa, had migrated to Asia, Eurasia, Europe, Australia, and North America.
Science is so much more interesting than iron aged fairy tales. The Book of Genocide is not science. It is ignorance.
Hmmm. I think Homo-Sapiens have existed for double 12,000 years. Dating human remains accurately (C-14 and other dating methods have their own assumptions) is not exact. Also Cro-Magnon, Neanderthal and Homo-Erectus were contemporaries when THEY made Homo-Sapiens AKA Adam (which mean "man", "a man" and "mankind"
All prototypes buried their dead, etc. They were above Chimps, Chimp3, they even made tools, but they were not created "in the image of the creators". We are all the result of "external" DNA incisions/interventions. Science is so much more interesting..
Since eyou said "External" I'm going to guess you think we were genetically engineered by aliens or some other unporovable BS(haha) argument that is a needles replacement for Evolution.
BSUnbeliever: You are not rational.
I think the earliest evidence of sapiens in Australia goes back beyond 50K years. The National Genographic Project (https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/human-journey/) has put homo sapiens origin at around 200K years b.p in Ethiopia, and the first out-of-Africa migration at around 60-70K years b.p.
From your article link: "The rise of agriculture around 10,000 years ago—and the population explosion it created—has left a dramatic impact on the human gene pool." So these others back 50k-200k years did not have the modern genome yet. .
Are you sure you can call these earlier persons Homo-Sapiens since even the Genographic Project concedes there was a dramatic gene change around 10,000 years ago? (really about 12,000 years ago. look up ancient cultivated wheat in Turkey.
"a dramatic gene change around 10,000 years ago?"
I think it said the gene pool changed dramatically, not the genome. We nearly went extinct about 70K years b.p, possibly because of climate change triggered by the Toba eruption. By some estimates the sapiens population fell to as low as 10,000. That's a very shallow gene pool.
the sapiens species itself, characterized by a large cranial capacity and a gracile skeleton, seems to have been become distinct from its erectus ancestor by about 250K years b.p. I'm sure the homo sapiens of that time would have had language, family and tribal relationships, fire, and stone and wooden tools. And they would have been just as smart as you and I. Much smarter when it came to living in the wild and foraging for food.
We can also tell that they started wearing clothes about 40-70K years b.p. by looking at the genome of lice. Body lice, which live in clothing, diverged from head lice, which don't, about 70K years b.p. I think that's a bit earlier than when Adam and Eve are supposed to have invented embarrassment. The fact that we started to wear clothes then suggests that something fairly dramatic happened to the climate. Check out this rather disgusting link. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/lice-evolution-tracks-the-inven...
I find this story and the amazing science behind it much more inspiring than the nonsense in origin myths, especially the Judeo-Christian rubbish.
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