Has anybody come across any "good" religious reason for our existence?

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Diotrephes's picture
Pulsarone,

Pulsarone,

" I am interested in your comment on religious people living differently. I am assuming you mean better. Hmm. Humans are not perfect."

Can you rephrase your comment? My battery is low right now.

Pulsarone's picture
Most religions from what I

Most religions from what I understand practices the teachings of good works. This can be done in many ways be donating money to a good cause, eco-friendly living for planet preservation, etc. ..... I find it interesting that I hear non-atheists attacking atheism which is one religion. Talyyn just attacked approximately 4,199 other religions in the world. Oh, I am new by the way...

David Killens's picture
@ Pulsarone

@ Pulsarone

"atheism which is one religion"

Atheism is not a religion. Atheism is just a position, the lack of belief in a god or gods.

Tin-Man's picture
@Pulsarone Re: "I find it

@Pulsarone Re: "I find it interesting that I hear non-atheists attacking atheism which is one religion."

Yeah, quite obvious you are new here. Your making that statement is like a big bright neon "NEW" sign. To be more specific, atheism is NOT a religion. Simply means non belief in any god(s). That's it. Period. Do you practice the religion of not believing in Thor, or Odin, or the Easter Bunny? Do you enjoy the hobby of not collecting stamps? Perhaps you like playing the sport of non-football. Just curious.

Sheldon's picture
Atheism isn't a religion, it

Atheism isn't a religion, it is the very antithesis of a religion. That's like claiming not collecting stamps is a bobby.

Calilasseia's picture
Quite simply, what one has to

Quite simply, what one has to realise, is that assertion-based doctrines provide emotional satisfaction, and very powerful emotional satisfaction too. They provide an illusion of certainty and conceptual stability in a dynamically changing world, the illusion of explanatory power with respect to disparate phenomena (frequently deliberately constructed to provide this illusion with respect to phenomena that elicit personal unease), and the illusion of reasoning, which of course allows said doctrines to be intellectually satisfying to those lacking the skills to see through the smoke and mirrors.

Just as works of fiction can become the focus of individual passions, so can doctrines. Which operate by similar methods. Namely, by providing a storyline to be consumed. Of course, fiction never pretends to be otherwise, and one of the dangers of doctrines, is that they tap into the same love of storylines that we all possess.

Sheldon's picture
"Quite simply, what one has

"Quite simply, what one has to realise, is that assertion-based doctrines provide emotional satisfaction, and very powerful emotional satisfaction too."

Yes I've noticed that when their superstitious beliefs receive critical comment it's not unlike trying to take away a small child's comfort blanket, or dummy.

"They provide an illusion of certainty and conceptual stability in a dynamically changing world, the illusion of explanatory power with respect to disparate phenomena (frequently deliberately constructed to provide this illusion with respect to phenomena that elicit personal unease), and the illusion of reasoning, which of course allows said doctrines to be intellectually satisfying to those lacking the skills to see through the smoke and mirrors."

Brilliant and correct observation. Have you ever noticed how their criticisms of objective methods like science and logic always involve the observation they can't offer absolute truth and thus are deemed (by theists) as subjective? Check out the nonsense catholicray has posted after this fashion, the lack of intellectual integrity is quite stomach churning.

"one of the dangers of doctrines, is that they tap into the same love of storylines that we all possess."

Damn, you're on fire sir, so in a nutshell science and logic are excellent methods of gaining a better objective understanding of reality, but their sometimes drawn out dry slog to the truth is no match for a damn good yarn, even if it is complete bollocks?

By gad sir, I like the cut of your jib.

Sheldon's picture
"Has anybody come across any

"Has anybody come across any "good" religious resaon for our existence?"

Yes, fucking loads, that's why we're all hanging out in an atheist forum.

My patience is at it's lowest ebb people, be warned.

doG's picture
doG pokes at Sheldon's

doG pokes at Sheldon's protruding temple veins with a stick...

Sheldon's picture
Grrrrrr....

Grrrrrr....

Cognostic's picture
I was chatting with a couple

I was chatting with a couple of members recently. Frankly, we all like the new Sheldon... Still there are enough of us acting like asses in the threads, It's nice to have a voice of calm logical sanity to look up to. You are more than welcome to join the DARK SIDE but it will leave a big empty space in the FORCE.

Sheldon's picture
I'll still be reasonable most

I'll still be reasonable most of the time, don't worry. It's nice to have a change now and again.

Cognostic's picture
@ IamSam: This gets back to

@ IamSam: This gets back to the ole "What's the meaning of life." question. Theists believe their meaning is to worship and serve their god so they can avoid Hell and secure a place in Heaven. What a waste of life.

You do not get meaning from life. Meaning is what you bring to life. You are what you do. If you sit about and play computer games all day, then that is the meaning of life for you. You sit in pews and pray to magical beings, then that is your meaning. If you are searching for a higher meaning, then that becomes your meaning. Assert there is no meaning and you have found your meaning. It's really very simple.

I have never found a religious belief reason for our existence that made any sense at all.

rat spit's picture
Here’s something to think

Here’s something to think about.

In the face of absolute Nothingness - God chose to create “Something”.

As an Atheist, you can ask your self “Why is there something, instead of nothing? Wouldn’t Nothingness have been easier?”

And the reply you should give your self is pure absurdity. Ie. there is no good reason to have something instead of nothing. Imagine the simplicity of there being just nothing!!! What a perfect universe this would be!!!

But God chose something. And it was a moral choice. Nothingness crushes and destroys. God chose “something” because it was right.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Ratty

@ Ratty

Nothingness crushes and destroys

Can't let you get away with this lot of bollocks.

Define 'nothing'? If it really is "nothing" then it has no characteristics...it just is not.

Nothing(ness) cannot 'crush' and nothing cannot 'destroy" they are, individually and collectively as you have it, a characteristic of something. So sorry, back to Zen school 101 for you Ratty. That is a big F on your pop quiz.

Sheesh mate, you are normally better than this. I would come over and give you a spanking but Cog would wanna come and then TM would be jealous...so....

Sheldon's picture
"As an Atheist, you can ask

"As an Atheist, you can ask your self “Why is there something, instead of nothing? Wouldn’t Nothingness have been easier?”"

Argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy, one day you may choose to Google this or follow one of my many links and thus learn why such specious arguments are irrational, and from there what this means for those arguments. On the off chance you'll ever want to approach this with an open mind and some objectivity here is a link to a list of the most oft used and appropriately named common logical fallacies.

http://utminers.utep.edu/omwilliamson/ENGL1311/fallacies.htm

"And the reply you should give your self"

Well isn't that dandy, not content with asking loaded fallacious questions, you've gone and given us the answer we should arrive at, thus negating the need for reasoning entirely. Yourself is also one word, and the answer is that the question is based on a fallacy. Not to worry catholicray is convinced questions can't be fallacious, bless him.

"there is no good reason to have something instead of nothing."

This one is a false dichotomy or black and white fallacy. It's also pure unevidenced assumption..

"But God chose something. And it was a moral choice."

Two more unevidenced assumptions, and you've managed to start a sentence with both and & but, you're on fire.

"Nothingness crushes and destroys."

Now that is fucking hilarious, do you know why? One should always end with a laugh anyway, even if it is unintentional.

rat spit's picture
Sheldon,

Sheldon,

So hilarious. I don’t know if I should feel sorry for you. You’re always trying to be right. Here, you’re like a pompous 5th grader of some kind.

Okay. Look. “Why something instead of nothing?” Do you read philosophy? Are you familiar with existentialism? It’s a thought experiment, Sheldon.

You posit the question in order to arrive at the dumb founding conclusion that the world is a pure absurdity. The question is like a zen koan. What is the sound of one hand clapping, sort of thing.

I’m really surprised you think that I’m attempting some kind of cosmological argument here. It’s a very well known thought experiment.

I’m sorry. You must be so embarrassed.

Cognostic's picture
Rat Baby - You can not be so

Rat Baby - You can not be so ignorant of apologetics Kraus just wrote an entire book explaining why there is something rather than nothing. Quantum Vacuum Fluctuations. The boundary of Plank Time.

Ask yourself - How do you turn all this "something" into "nothing?" Something exists and mass and energy are conserved (Einstine 101). Please share how you got to "nothing" when no one else can do it. You are making an equivocation error and assuming the philosophical nothing is the same as the scientific nothing. They are not the same.

Ratty --- you are so far behind the times on this one that it should be embarrassing.

If there is nothing, then where is your god? Are you asserting God is nothing? You can not have nothing and something at the same time. You need to make up your mind. Then, if there is a first cause, you need to prove it is your nothing god being, who you just proved exists, and not a natural cause or one of the millions of other god beings. There is a whole list of universe creating gods in Wiki. How did you rule all of them out? Have you applied the same standards to your nothing God? Son, this is one of the lamest apologetics out there in the world today. Surely you can do better. Try a minimal facts apologetic next. That might work.. Then again,,, perhaps not. I think it is just best you stick with the presuppositional nonsense of the Overlord.

rat spit's picture
Cognostic,

Cognostic,

Again. You think I should be embarrassed - that’s two Atheists who have missed the point.

I’m not attempting an argument for existence here. I’m pointing out the absurdity of existence. Don’t you grasp the nature of the question.

Okay. Look. Big universe. Middle of no where. Conscious beings in it. Hmm? Okay. So why? Oh! There is no why! There’s no purpose and furthermore - it’s a huge fucking enigma!

Really. The question has no answer. The conclusion is “absurdity”. I took you guys for intellectuals. I don’t know how you guys are unaware of this type of koan. Sartre knew about it!

Cognostic's picture
@Rat Spit: I took you guys

@Rat Spit: I took you guys for intellectuals. I don’t know how you guys are unaware of this type of koan.

Honestly, it's easy. You do not know how to express yourself effectively in writing. English writing 101.
FIRST RULE: It is the writer's job to write clearly and express what he means.
SECOND RULE: It is not the reader's job to interpret the writer and guess what he means.

In short - Dude - you suck at Satire. You might want to try a different genre.

rat spit's picture
Sorry. I can see how I might

Sorry. I can see how I might have made it look like a cosmological argument. I didn’t mean it that way.

The “why something instead of nothing?” Question is a rhetorical question.

The “God stepped in and made things better” argument is a lump of shitty rhetoric.

Don’t get me wrong, please. And my apologies, again.

Cognostic's picture
@ Rat Spit - Okay Ratty -

@ Rat Spit - Okay Ratty - This is a much better reply. You are better off writing comedy. Stay away for the Koan stuff. At least when you are writing.

Cognostic's picture
Has anybody come across any

Has anybody come across any "good" religious reason for our existence?

*Crickets chirping.* *Slight breeze.* *Tumble Weed rolls by.* *The distant sound of a dog barking.* *Yawn* *Glance at the watch.* *Look to the side of the page.* *Slowly begin moving ---------->

Sheldon's picture
Cognostic "Has anybody come

Cognostic "Has anybody come across any "good" religious reason for our existence?

*Crickets chirping.* *Slight breeze.* *Tumble Weed rolls by.* *The distant sound of a dog barking.* *Yawn* *Glance at the watch.* *Look to the side of the page.* *Slowly begin moving ---------->"

Do you know I was halfway through before I realised it wasn't a list of reasons. Made myself laugh there...how embarrassing for me.

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon - Ha ha ha ha ha

@Sheldon - Ha ha ha ha ha ha...... I didn't even think of that when I wrote it. I fully understand why. Very funny!

doG's picture
Bark bark.

Bark bark.

Adonis's picture
Nah The best Islamic purpose

Nah The best Islamic purpose I can find is that God created us to worship him ! OK then Why he needs that ? He has an angels who worshipped him all the time ! While If the human worshiped him we're better than the angels because we have a free well and we use it for the right way unlike the angels who doesn't have any free well ! They're just worshippers for god ! So In Islam he plalys with us He just created this maze to worship him by our own well !

David Killens's picture
That is a very interesting

That is a very interesting point Adonis. If, according to the Islamic doctrine god created humans to worship it, then anything less would be counter to this god. IMO the fact there are atheists disproves a god because this Islamic god would destroy any atheists.

If I planted a bed of tulips, any weeds that spring up are removed.

Since atheists exist, then there are one of two conclusions.

1) the Islamic doctrine is wrong, and that proves the Quran is not "perfect"

or

2) there is no god.

catholicray's picture
The word good as used in the

The word good as used in the question is subjective it defeats the answer before you receive it.

Sheldon's picture
"The word good as used in the

"The word good as used in the question is subjective it defeats the answer before you receive it."

No it isn't.

See subjective opinions seem to cut both ways, or did you want to justify your claim with....I don't know, evidence maybe, or a cogent argument? Though the irony of a theist decrying a question as loaded, is not lost on the atheists here I'm guessing.

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