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Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@old man shouts...
@old man shouts...
Don’t wet your diapers. I was simply responding to one of your fellow atheist’s post which claimed cyanide was bad. So if you want to bestow your wisdom to anyone, address @peurii
Next time try and read carefully
@ Jordan
Here is what you posted: @old man shouts...
Don’t wet your diapers. I was simply responding to one of your fellow atheist’s post which claimed cyanide was bad. So if you want to bestow your wisdom to anyone, address @peurii
Next time try and read carefully
Dear oh dear I quote your prior post:
You really are not very good at this are you? It seems you have difficulty in definitions, honesty and finally comprehension. You also have denied that you had mentioned 'god' in previous threads, now you lie about what you have posted on the same damn page...
You fail to answer my questions, fail to answer my requests for your definitions of 'right and wrong' and now seem to have difficulty in recognising your own posts.
When are you going to be honest?
@old man shouts...
Please old wise one show me where I denied mentioning God in previous posts?
And again it was one of you fellow atheists who claimed cyanide to be bad and I was merely questioning their assertion, hence the question mark.
It’s like I almost feel bad having to constantly point out your embarrassingly ill constructed ‘comebacks’
@ Jordan
Aaaww touched a nerve again?
Never mind, lets see your definitions of "right, wrong" Murder" and "Rape' (As requested some time ago)...or shall I supply them for you and show you, once again that your posts are asinine nonsense?
Well, that's what I was kind of aiming at, that "good" and "bad" are always context specific terms.
Murder is bad because almost all people agree that murder is bad, in most circumstances. We have innate feelings that we want to continue existing, and our capability of projecting unto others minds lead us to believe they want to continue existing too. A murderous psychopath doesn't regard other people as living beings, rather as objects, so for their innate moral feelings, they are doing nothing wrong. For the rest of us, though, we can agree that murder is almost always wrong thanks to our nature, and that we should prevent psychopaths from murdering other people.
Of course a human murdering a human is "just" a clump of cells murdering another clump of cells, or on another level of analysis you can say that nothing really changes, as the atoms that constitute a human do not change when the body dies. But we are social hominids capable of symbolic thought. For us such clumps of cells are meaningful, they cause emotions that lead to moral thought. So the cell level analysis for us is not the most pressing one. I don't need a god to tell me not to murder other people. That comes to me innately.
If sapient beings had evolved out of scorpions instead of social hominids, our conceptions of morality would perhaps look totally different. Whether or not it would have been possible to evolve such a large brain in non-social species is of course an interesting subject. I think Dunbar et. al. lay a pretty convincing argument in their book "Thinking Big" that our brain's size is thanks to our sociality, but of course we can't know what it is like to be a scorpion or a lion etc.
In non-sapient nature good and bad are meaningless terms. Is it bad that the lion murders an antilope? They only apply to beings such as humans who have sufficient amount of cognitive and social abilities to think about such things.
@peruii
But again, just because most people agree murder is “bad” does not make it bad. If you lived in Germany during Hilter’s regime would you go along with the majority?
Just because we want to keep living doesn’t make murder bad, after all the murderer WANTS to murder. Sure as a majority we can rule to lock away murderers but there is no evidence to belive it is bad, wrong, immoral or evil. Murder is just murder. Rape is just rape. There is no evidence or scientific ground to say anyone has any rights, including life.
Well, we can play these semantic games where some sort of cosmic morality exists beyond human societies and human nature, but I do not believe they do. If all the world was nazi Germany, then most people would probably agree to do horrible things (in our conception of things) and feel morally in the right. Rights do not exist outside of human constructions. Human rights are social constructs like nations, countries and money.
Edit: Regarding a bit more about Nazi Germany. Even in Nazi Germany humans had an innate moral nature, the extent to which humanness is extended though, can be culturally constricted.
Edit 2: These are obviously just my views. I don't presume to pontificate for all atheists.
@peurii
Okay so to clarify believing stabbing babies and rapping children is bad is actually an opinion and if you woke up tomorrow and everyone in your society Decided to legalize rape, murder & abuse it wouldn’t be that big of a deal because it’s all a matter of opinion just like your preference in food, music etc.?
Morality is not exactly like opinion. Taste of food is an opinion, because there is currently no desire to force other people to think about food in the manner that makes some foods ok or not to consume. In the west. In other parts of the world, famously India, tastes in food are a part of morality because of beliefs tied to Samsara and the holiness of cows. Thus you can't eat cow, because it's breaking the moral rule. If people started to think tomorrow that listening to country music made you a bad person in some way (maybe something something white supremacy) then music taste would no longer be a matter of taste, but be incorporated into morality.
Let me clarify my position on morality.
1. Morality is based on our evolved psychology and emotions.
2. We have morality because we are evolved from social animals with sufficiently complex cognition.
3. Cultural norms and forms of morality can't be just anything, because they arise out of evolved human nature.
4. If human nature would change, so would our views on morality.
5. The picture is more muddied in reality, because we have an amazing capability of symbolic thinking. Thus we can extend or contract our innate feelings of morality to non-humans and at times deny humanity from some humans.
6. Having morality makes you feel indignant. Morality binds and blinds, like Jonathan Haidt says.
Thus I find it hard to believe that tomorrow people would go on an all out general baby stabbing extravaganza, but in certain situations, such as in ethnic conflicts. At those times the baby stabbers often see themselves as doing the virtuous thing. I'm more interested in what people actually do than the lofty notions we invent around morality.
But if suddenly tomorrow everyone accepted that baby murder was ok, I obviously wouldn't think it's ok, because that's not been my cultural upbringing, and we are hardwired to help suffering babies. I'm not sure how they could justify baby murder, perhaps some sort of argument regarding babies lack of cognitive abilities could decimate people's sympathy towards babies?
Morality being a matter of personal taste does not somehow mean that your hypothetical incident would not be a big deal to me.
Personally, I don't have much of an issue with children rapping.
@ Sapporo and Jordan
Here is some live footage of the best kids rapping......
But hey, Jordan, still waiting for your definitions of murder, rape and now it seems...rap....Still not holding my breath.
And when you get around to it YOUR definition of right and wrong, which you have yet to supply even after many requests.
Maybe you are too busy rapping?
If morality evolved via societies/civilisations, then you would expect cruelty in the world as well as goodness.
If morality was 'god given' you would expect everyone to follow a pre-set of moral guidelines without wavering from them.
If you look at the models presented, you would probably note that a natural world view is more in accordance with reality than a theistic world view, in regards to morality and pretty much anything else for that matter.
@randomhero1982
False. The teachings of the Bible specifically acknowledge mans sinful nature. You lack knowledge of the intricacies set forth in the Bible. Furthermore, just because you “expect” something does not make it so
Ah yes, the intricacies of the bible... ah book that plagiarizes the Torah, the later of which stole most of it stories from other bullshit superstitious cults.
The bible is so subjective, it is laughable.
You all have different interpretation but can never prove anything.
And yet, a naturalistic can do far more.
Which model best suits the data?!
V.S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Jordan
I think it is time you explain to us how you are not a troll.
@nyarlathotep
I figured someone would try this. This, is taken entirely out of context, which I am beginning to gather is of no importance to the average poster on this forum.
To clarify, my original post did not mention God. Other posts in the past I have mentioned God. So far, so good? Okay this is where it gets complicated. I denied mentioning God in THIS original post, but never to any of my previous and SEPARATE posts. Going back to @old man shouts... comments claiming I denied EVER mentioning God in this post or any other post
@ Jordan
Please excuse me, having read this post of yours I am busy "nit picking" crumbs off my keyboard....LOL. You are a card ....
[
@Jordan]From a moderator: I asked nicely before; now you WILL explain to us how you are not violating forum rule #1 (no trolling). Make sure you include this information in your next post on this site.
--------------------------------------
It also seems like you are confusing what a thread is with what a post is; since you didn't deny mentioning god in your original post in this thread (or any other thread as far as I can tell).
@Nyar Re: To Jordan - "Make sure you include this information in your next post on this site."
...*voice mail outgoing message*... "We're sorry, but the party you are trying to reach is unavailable at this time. Currently, Jordan is busy creating several other highly insightful threads and trolling the Atheist Hub in an effort to annoy new members seeking genuine assistance and advice. Please leave a message after the tone, and Jordan will be sure to ignore your requests for as long as possible. Always remember, God works in mysterious ways. Thank you, and have a blessed day.".... *beeeeeep*.....
@nyarlathotep
Define trolling
I'm not going to do that, but I'll give an example: making blatantly false statements about what you have posted recently, in an attempt to generate (negative) attention.
I'm of the opinion you're trolling; that's the bad news. The good news is I'm giving you the opportunity to change my mind. So go ahead.
I'll never understand why they put themselves through this. Surely trolling theist sites is far more rewarding, given the hilarious hokum they believe.
@Sheldon
They care for our damned souls, of course...
Actually, I think if Jordan is allowed to hang around a bit longer we may all have a good chance of being saved. Speaking for myself, Saviour Jordan has me teetering on the edge of conversion. After all, what's not to like? Based on all his glorious teachings and marvelous insights, Saviour Jordan has pointed out several benefits to being a faithful theist.
1. Dishonesty and evasiveness are totally okay and acceptable. In some cases, even encouraged.
2. We do not have to be held accountable/responsible for our actions, whether good or bad.
3. Personal integrity not required. Matter of fact, it actually seems to be highly discouraged.
4. Making veiled and not-so-subtle threats to others is considered to be an amusing pastime.
5. $5 all-you-can-eat tacos at the local taco truck every Tuesday. (Actually, just tossed this one in with fingers crossed hoping it might be true.)
I tell ya, folks, I'm almost convinced that theism is the way to go. Although, I have to admit, the rapping children have made me hesitant. Sure, rapping children can be cute at first, but I just really hate rap. Tough decision, though...
@ Tin Man and others
Ooops , I didn't include the link to all the kid rappers in my last post on this thread.
Here it is!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVUukmqRr24
It's ok to rap kids!
Children are rapping at earlier and earlier ages. I think it’s a disturbing sign of the times.
Hey Tin Man. You don’t need Saviour Jordan. Join my cult! You like quesadillas? We’ll give you all the quesadillas you CAN EAT!!!!
<
I blame the wu tang clan and eminem.
Definitely a wide spread plot by consumerist America to increase rhyme time and vocabulary- whilst surreptitiously decreasing grammatical ability. Soon our children will not be able to speak - but they will be able to rap. Whether or not that is a good or bad thing remains to be seen. I’m looking forward to all the new fresh jams, personally.
@For Everyon's enjoyment - pointing no fingers.
Just a little tune that can be hummed along with as write some of us struggle to write intelligible posts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWdgiFzpolA
@Jordan -
Obvious error in your original post - "earthquakes" and "tsunamis" have no agency. There is nothing to "hold accountable" for the actions of an earthquake. We can, however, require that other people of our society recognize the sanctity of their fellow man, and if they fail in this endeavor, even though they have been warned, then we can impose consequences, like throw them in prison to protect ourselves from them and let them mull over the problem and their error as pertains to their behavior toward their fellow man. You can't do this to earthquakes and tsunamis. If we could we probably would.
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