How to Convince People Without Being Insulting

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Anonymous's picture
How to Convince People Without Being Insulting

I just joined, and enjoy reading the forum, for the most part. I gotta tell ya, though, what's the thing with being so rude? Geesch. I was looking forward to discussion of different religious and non-religious viewpoints, but what I'm finding is a lots of insulting remarks on intelligence, like pissing contests.

Personally, I want to know WHY someone believes how they believe. If they're religious, then why? If not, they why?

I guess I thought there would be more discussion back/forth rather than divisiveness.

How do you think about this? Why?



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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
"You will find that handsome

"You will find that handsome is as handsome does". Those that approach a debate with facts, a good attitude and a willingness to learn, plus the humility to admit errors are treated as the reasonable and gracious humans that we all are.

Those that approach with " I have learnt the ONLY secret" in whatever guise they take, condemn us poor atheists to hell and back, or worse, treat us like idiots get very short shrift from me...others take them more patiently.

Most "arguments" from theists are tiresome repetitions of the same bunkum tossed with a nice dressing of woo or the latest crappola from a Youtube preacher. They get huffy, insulting and in some cases hysterical when their outlandish claims are debunked or utterly destroyed by the brains trust here (plus the outrageous humor of Tin Man, Cog, Arakish, Chimp and the cabal of comedians that have caused my cat so much distress, I of course am an innocent amongst that company)

Each is judged and treated by the quality and originality of their approach.

Anonymous's picture
Dear Handsome, (lol)

Dear Handsome, (lol) ACtually, you look more like Mr. Magoo.

I understand you, I think. Humor can repair anything. Take "The Life of Brian", for instance.

Having been a former bible-thumping Nazarene Fundamentalist for ten years, and now atheist for 18, I believe I understand the reasoning behind both. I just don't see why people have to insult each other. It doesn't get your ideas across, but only divides.

So what if fundies condemn you to hell, so what? I don't get what the problem is with just ignoring it.

Also, I argue the point that belief/non-belief is NOT just based on intelligence. That's used as a cop-out to put down others.

I love your logo.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ MB

@ MB
Yes I am amazingly good looking. *sigh, such a cross to bear* I agree intelligence is not a barrier to delusion.

Read my profile. I used to be kind and keep my opinions neutral or kindly. However the more idiots and stupidity mongers that invade my space the less I can be bothered to restrain my self. Life is too short not to use my wit to tear holes in their misplaced confidence.
Read some Shakespeare, the master of insult.

Anonymous's picture
YOUR space? You mean these

YOUR space? You mean these "idiots and stupidity mongers" actually come into your home?

Ahh, you don't fool anybody for a second. You like the confrontations with "these idiots". I bet you like just charming religious folk as much as you charm us.

(cough, cough)

Old man shouts at clouds's picture


Yes My Space, (not the website) my head space to be exact. Also they do come to my home. I am of an age, and live in a over 55 community that attracts proselytisers by the handful, like ants to sugar.

I enjoy being fucking rude when I am enquired (in the sweet tones one uses to a retarded 2 year old) "Have you heard of Jesus?" or "Have you read the greatest book in the world" or "Does modern society worry you" or "I have complete proof of God/Allah/Eric the farting fucking unicorn".

For a start I didn't ASK for that subject to be broached and if it had not been asked or introduced I would not have dreamt of bringing it up. Even here on an ATHEIST forum we are constantly bombarded with the same weak apologist arguments, the same "proofs" the same condemnations day after day. And I say , sometimes with logic, sometimes with ridicule, often with both, "Well just fuck your pansy god fearing spotty arses, fuck off and take your weak soporific arguments with you." Its cathartic, gives me a warm pleasant feeling and feeds my cognitive reinforcement.

Don't like the rudeness? Don't try and convert me, introduce me to your version of Jesus/Qu'ran/Giant Cosmic Bunny (I'm looking at you Cog & TM...) Don't come into spaces that are clearly delimited as not where your god is....

And as treating these poseurs of god with respect to their intelligence? Are you kidding me? Many of them would make a cow pat look intelligent in comparison. Most have the moral compass of a corn cob and the integrity of a nazi camp guard.

Nope, I think I will continue baiting, twisting noses, confounding with scholarship and telling those that deserve it to fuck off and decay.

My life span is now such that it is not worth the warm and fuzzies or sheer frustration of hearing the same tired old tunes being played so badly by the talentless morons of credulity.

And yes I continue to be ridiculously handsome, winsome, witty and charming. Especially to those such as yourself who enquire in such a wholesome way.

Anonymous's picture
Old man, I'm surprised. I

Old man, I'm surprised. I thought you'd have more self-control than that.

You probably don't care, since you like being rude, but it's really not necessary to use curse words.

I stand warned, and will stay away.

Tin-Man's picture
@MB Re: "...but it's really

@MB Re: "...but it's really not necessary to use curse words."

Ahem.... Umm.... Hate to disappoint, and I'm not trying to be rude, but sometimes it can be quite fucking necessary to use "curse words." Sometimes to stress a damn point. Sometimes just for shits and giggles. Make no mistake, however, they DO have their uses.

Anonymous's picture
Hey, Tin Man, I use curse

Hey, Tin Man, I use curse words myself, but I wouldn't dream of using it with a stranger, and especially in a post where it is not needed. To me, using "fuck" or "shit" demonstrates lack of vocabulary,

I can understand why Old Man swears a lot.

Tin-Man's picture
@Magnificent Beast Re: "To

@Magnificent Beast Re: "To me, using "fuck" or "shit" demonstrates lack of vocabulary,"

Eye no watt ewe main. Them thare peepole hoo yewz fowl lang-wage arnt vary entell-agent an thay half tearable vogue-kab-you-Larrys. Thaze shood awl bee cent fur aweigh two sumplase wear thare whoreable pahtee mowths want deesterb fart smolks lyk ewe an eye. Stoo-ped eed-ee-uts hoo kerse knead too bee kwarunteened frum uhs entee-leck-chewals beekaws thare stoopedness mite bee kuntayjus. An eye doant won’t two bee knot smahrt.

Ta-daaaa! Language made fun, ladies and gentlemen! Hooked-on-Phonics, anyone?....*bowing to the crowd*.... Thank you. Thank you. No applause, please. Just throw money.

Language is language. Words are words. And I love to write and use various methods to express different thoughts and feelings and convey to the reader a sense of emotion a step or two beyond the simple written text. Sadly, it is cheap entertainment for me. (Being retired, I often have a good bit of extra time on my hands.) And the one thing I find fascinating about profanity is its inherent shock value. Ain't gonna lie, I always find it considerably amusing watching how different people react to foul language, especially when they are not expecting it. And for that reason, I often find it to be a rather valuable communication tool. Not only here in the debate forums, but also when interacting with people face to face in the real world.

Would you believe I didn't start using profanity/curse words until I was almost thirty years old? *chuckle* No lie. I'm dead serious. Prior to that, about the worst you would ever hear from me was, "Aw, shucks!", or maybe a, "What the heck? That crap ain't right, dang-it!" Want to know what is even funnier?.... Ever heard a grown man trying to LEARN how to cuss? It is a real hoot, I can assure you. For instance, when you make a loud statement such as, "I don't give a hell what the damn you say! I ain't shittin' gonna do that fuck, you ass bitch! Dog-GONNIT!", people nearby tend to stop and take notice. Then come the bewildered looks. Then somebody lets out a snicker. Then the whole room falls out in laugher. Yes, as you might imagine, it rather takes the bite out of the rant, to say the least. So embarrassing....*sadly shaking head*... Fortunately, between then and now I have had many opportunities to refine and sharpen my profanity skills to surgical precision. Oh, sure, I may get a little careless with the blade every once in a while during the heat of the moment in a high-stress situation. These things happen. Generally speaking, though, to me it is simply another tool (and sometimes a toy) in my bag of communication goodies.

Anonymous's picture
Hang around school kids and

Hang around school kids and every other word is fuck, shit, asshole, etc. "fuckin this, fuckin that". Sociologists say it is male bonding language (rage against the machine).

The problem is when the same kids try to express themselves in an articulate way. Like in a counselor's office, defending themselves. They can't because they don't have the vocabulary. It is a tragic thing to see. If a person cannot communicate, they cannot be socialized with any kind of skill.

That's why I don't like profanity. It just seems to not serve much purpose. Unless you've dropped a hammer on your foot. But in a post with thinking adults? No.

(Iiked your post!)

Sheldon's picture
"using "fuck" or "shit"

"using "fuck" or "shit" demonstrates lack of vocabulary,"

Oh I don't think that's the case, it certainly can be indicative of a limited vocabulary. However a well chosen vituperation can hit the mark quite well I find, and lift an otherwise dreary post by altering and honing the tone of it.

I try not to over do vituperations of course, both on here and in everyday speech. On the other hand they're just words. As OMS says, some people set the tone from the start and when you see exchanges months later the person responding may have simply exhausted all their patience with someone who uses ad hominem and has simply come here to preach and proselytize.

Most people are pretty well mannered unless provoked.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ MB

@ MB

Right, I use the richness of the English and Gaelic languages, especially in the vernacular to emphasise, underline, and very occasionally to deliberately offend. And, well spotted, no I dont fucking care.

I do find anyone with the sensitivity you are displaying , franky hilarious, and obviously you have never read Chaucer, Shakespeare, Marlow, Oscar Wilde as each of them contain much worse examples of vernacular than I have demonstrated.

Here's one of the earliest uses of the word you quail to hear: " the usually accepted first known occurrence of the word is found in code in a poem in a mixture of Latin and English composed in the 15th century.The poem, which satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, takes its title, "Flen flyys", from the first words of its opening line, Flen, flyys, and freris ("Fleas, flies, and friars"). The line that contains fuck reads Non sunt in coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk. Deciphering the phrase "gxddbou xxkxzt pg ifmk", here by replacing each letter by the previous letter in alphabetical order, as the English alphabet was then, yields the macaronic non sunt in coeli, quia fuccant vvivys of heli, which translated means, "They are not in heaven, because they fuck the women of Ely".[15] The phrase was probably encoded because it accused monks of breaking their vows of celibacy; it is uncertain to what extent the word fuck was considered acceptable at the time. Wikepedia

So I think my use of the F bomb is entirely suitable and when used as sparingly as I do (i.e. deliberately), in the tradition of the English language. One of the greatest tools of understanding us puny humans have developed.

When such as you seek to emasculate English and free expression you lose the richness and texture of the language and its roots so far back in time and cultures.

Bowdler was a criminal. He should be tortured for ever for his crimes against literature and the English language.

Anonymous's picture
I love language, myself. If

I love language, myself. If I could have changed majors in college, it would have been linguistics. You might find this funny. I was chatting with someone on the bus who was from somewhere in England. Lovely, lovely accent. I could have listened to it forever. He used the word "American" to describe the English language, "... ye fuck (folk) hea' (here) speak Ai-melican (American), it no' (not) English."

I subscribe to Britbox, just so I can listen to the accents. It'd be cool to study the people who migrated to different parts of England which eventually evolved into different "accents".

I'm not offended by your apathy; I'm more concerned with your obvious anger issues. Ever think of brevity in your posts?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture

Oh are speaking to a man who made a living for many years doing voice overs in a great variety of accents especially English regional and occasionally specific towns or villages.

Apathy? Who mentioned apathy, well who cares about that......and as for my "Anger Issues"...that's the funniest thing I have read since TM's last post. You nearly got the cat wet, but I had just finished me arvo tea...nah mate you have it all completely wrong.

And your last line "Brevity in my posts" when you start a ridiculous OP? Come must be having a lend my son. 5 minutes on a forum and you are lecturing everyone about manners and language? Dd we have an election I missed?

Anonymous's picture
Old man, sensitivity is not a

Old man, sensitivity is not a bad thing. I've made a very good living from being sensitive (retired psychologist). And YOU are very sensitive, and I think that's great. We need more sensitivity.

btw, I'm not a mate, I'm a Lass.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ MB

@ MB

Well, at my age and in Western Australia everyone including Captain Cat is "mate" at some point.

Actually I never practiced as a psych, just got the sheepskin. I was in order (many overlaps) child Actor, Musician (30 years), Actor/Stand Up/MC Writer and again Actor some at the same time. Of course with many periods of "resting" I could pursue other food/rent giving occupations for short or lengthy periods until my luck picked up again...As a character actor writer and comic I had to observe my fellow humans as that is where all humor and tragedy derives. One cant observe without empathy for the human condition. All of them.
I now spend a fair bit of time training mental health workers in how to deal with presentations, role playing many different characters with different problems. Can't do it without living it.

What kind of psych were you?

Anonymous's picture
What kind of psych were you?

What kind of psych were you? Hopefully, a helpful One.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ MB

@ MB

I meant (as you well know) Clinical? Behavioural? Consulting? Therapist? Learning disorders? Social disorders? Come clean, we wont bite...It would be nice to have a decent psyche on the forums if only to hold the Wunderkind Genius Breezy in check for a while.

Anonymous's picture
ohh.... lol... sorry. hahaha

ohh.... lol... sorry. hahaha I misunderstood you.

Actually, it was hell to choose a specific field. I was young and stupid but I wanted to help kids, so I "dabbled" into Art Therapy for some years. I come from an art background, myself, and the two just made sense. I wasn't for me, though. I think it had a lot to do with my age; I was young and stupid, and wanted to save every child. My expectations were way too high, but this is not unnatural for therapists.

So I became a cognitive shrink for a while, but.... how can I say this.... cognitive therapy has too many limitations. I think it had its place years ago, but there are so many better avenues to good mental health. Like the role playing you mentioned. I practiced Dialectic Behavioral Therapy for some years, but had to retire due to some health problems at the time.

Thanks for asking, though.

Cognostic's picture
There is nothing preventing a

There is nothing preventing a cognitive therapist to engage in role playing. All you are doing is discussing techniques. Role playing is done by Family Systems Therapists, Gestalt Therapists, Behavioral Therapists, Psychoanalysts and yes Cognitive Therapists.

As for Dialectic Behavioral Therapy "IT IS A COGNITIVE THERAPY." "Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) is a cognitive behavioral treatment developed by Marsha Linehan, PhD, ABPP."
Furthermore, with it's assumptions it is more restrictive than Cognitive Therapy and useful for a more specific group of individuals. ( A smaller group with a smaller set of symptoms.)

@"Cognitive Therapy has limits?" Are you even aware of the limits the CBT approach?
DBT was originally developed to treat chronically suicidal individuals diagnosed with borderline personality disorder (BPD). It is now recognized as the gold standard psychological treatment for THIS POPULATION. "

I seriously doubt that you understand the difference between a "TECHNIQUE" and actually engaging in a "Therapeutic Process." (By What You Have Said.) You may think the theory is more useful because of the populations you have worked with but there is nothing "better about it." It just happens to be useful for a specific group of symptoms.

Sheldon's picture
I think you mean levity, not

I think you mean levity, not that we can't all learn the art of brevity in our posts. Some more than others. I always find it odd that people associate swearing with anger.

Sky Pilot's picture
Magnificent Beast,

Magnificent Beast,

"Having been a former bible-thumping Nazarene Fundamentalist for ten years, and now atheist for 18, I believe I understand the reasoning behind both."

1. Do you know what the real Ten Commandments are?

2. Do you know when the Jesus character got the name "Jesus"?

3. Do you know when the Apocrypha was deleted from the Protestant Bible?

Anonymous's picture

The Apocrypha was not deleted from all Protestant bibles.

Cognostic's picture
One point for MB. It was

One point for MB. It was never a part of the Protestant bible. It was attached but never a part of it.

chimp3's picture
Magnificent Beast: Can you

Magnificent Beast: Can you copy and paste some specific examples of this rude behavior?

Anonymous's picture
I could, but I'm not.

I could, but I'm not.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐy's picture
My life motto lol.

My life motto lol.

CyberLN's picture
MB, you wrote, “Personally, I

MB, you wrote, “Personally, I want to know WHY someone believes how they believe. If they're religious, then why? If not, they why?”

Then ask them that. How you approach folks is entirely up to you.
You get to make that decision.
So does everyone else.

LogicFTW's picture
I find most people are not

I find most people are not very honest to others or themselves on why they believe what they believe.

Since atheist is a "not" then there is no dishonesty there. Unless an atheist makes reasons for being atheist (not necessary.)

Anonymous's picture
Excellent post. You make an

Excellent post. You make an important point. I hope to find honesty in the forum. I try to be, as much as I am aware of.

I became a Nazarene so long ago because I was very vulnerable and fragile. I met a friend who loved to laugh, as I do, and later find out she belonged to the Nazarenes. I was sucked in immediately.

Until I started not liking myself for what I pretended to believe. No, I don't believe that gays will go to hell because they love each other. And how can a loving God put down so many people? Things didn't make sense. So I started questioning what you so aptly posted about... I wasn't honest in what I believed. I just went along with it.

After find the answer to my questions, and found the guts to declare what/why I believed, I am resolved.

Great post. Thank you.


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