How to Get Out
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
It seems i've made quite a racket :)
I'll first explain what some of you wondered.
I opened my account when i was an atheist (a few years back :))
I simply forgot that i need to change it.. so sorry for all of you who already had a conspiracy theory that i am a theist who disguised to be an atheist :)
So no, i am no longer an atheist.
In the Jewish teachings, when one studies the bible, he learns it in 4 different levels.
Each level explains the words in a more elaborated way.
This is not because you change the meaning of the words rather because the meaning of the words to begin with is much more complex.
I didn't mean to say "childish" as a wrong thing, rather as a very limited and "flat" way of understanding things.
An example might be that when i'll ask you what the big bang is, the "childish" way of understanding it is to say it was a big explosion the expanded to become everything (like many theists believe, which is very "childish" from their end to think about the big bang like that)
The more mature way of looking at the big bang, is to understand the process that took place. to understand the physics and the process of expansion. to understand the way atoms are created and a lot more.
The bible needs to be learned in Hebrew because in translation, there are many words that are not translated correctly.
Even the first word "בראשית" is translated wrong to be: "in the beginning".
This is not what the word really means (well, it is a part of its meaning)
ראשית in Hebrew refers also to a time frame, and not only a point of time.
This is why the word can be red in several meanings.
When you study the words in its original form, the context of things changes.
So as an example the first part of genesis should be red more like: "During the first period of creation" and not "at the beginning of creation".
In the first few verses, there are many times that the translation is very narrow in comparison to the actual full meaning of the word.
The ראשית derives from the word ראש (head) which also means top of or lead of.
So only the first verse hold several meanings that needs to be considered when reading the next verses.
What you say is true, too many (including Hebrew speaking people) learn the bible and interpret their own meanings while the fact is that there is an actual meaning to things.
In the book it self, there are instructions how to read the book.
And yes. the fault for the confusion is in the author. this is how it is supposed to be.
Please note, when i say something like "supposed", it is based on the Jewish teachings. I assume there are many who might claim otherwise, but i really think that when learning about something, it is best to learn it in its original form.
People who give their own interpretations, come up with horrible things (like that God hates gays and they are to blame for earthquakes or whatever idiotic idea people come up with).
Lol.. not going to go there as it will probably take 40 pages of text for you to understand the verses you might think you understand in your post.
Everything in the bible is stories of what happened after humans didn't understand what they are required to do.
The only rules humans are given as the "base rules" are in the story of Adam and Eve. everything beyond that are the chronicles of humans and their attempts to understand God.
When someone translates something that might have several meanings, it is always translated with a subjective understanding.
I can translate a song and at the end you will get a very different meaning even if the words are similar.
So what i claimed was that in order to understand something to the full, you need to learn the origin and not the translation of a translation.
Part of the Jewish teaching is to never accept something as truth just because someone told you.
This is why one is expected to question EVERYTHING he is taught until he accepts it as truth.
Geeeez. that was long :)
@ Segev Moran
"In the Jewish teachings, when one studies the bible, he learns it in 4 different levels.
Each level explains the words in a more elaborated way.
This is not because you change the meaning of the words rather because the meaning of the words to begin with is much more complex."
And I do not accept that load of bullshit. That is the lamest excuse explaining why a book is so screwed up, confusing, and leads to so many interpretations.
And even if I did accept this lame excuse, then please explain why in the Jewish culture they have so many different interpretations themselves?
Four different levels..... sheesh, what a load of bullshit.
@ Segev Moran
"Part of the Jewish teaching is to never accept something as truth just because someone told you.
This is why one is expected to question EVERYTHING he is taught until he accepts it as truth."
I am not Jewish, but I have many Jewish friends and live surrounded by Synagogues. I know them well enough to point out the flaw in your flaccid excuse.
Yes, Jewish teachings do encourage discussion and examination of their holy books. But in the end, the Rabbi ALWAYS wins any debate. Additionally, the Jewish culture is structured so that if you do not toe the party line, you will be ostracized. I fully understand the power Rabbis hold, and I fully understand the crippling penalties imposed on a Jew if they are ostracized.
Be a good sport and please change your atheist designation to theist, and then kindly stay out of the Atheist Hub area. There's a good chap.
Segev Moran, you replied to my post with, in part, “The bible needs to be learned in Hebrew because in translation, there are many words that are not translated correctly”
Duh! I don’t personally give two shits if it has been translated inaccurately. Did you not understand what I wrote? It’s not the book itself or in/correct translations. It’s the millions of people who interpret that book and the many books of its ilk that fuck things up for others. Whether I read the original Hebrew and translate it perfectly makes ZERO difference!
@Segev Re: "The bible needs to be learned in Hebrew because in translation, there are many words that are not translated correctly."
Soooooooo..... Ummmmm.... Hmmmmm.... *scratching head in contemplation*.... Okay, so, like, there is NO WAY I am the only one who sees the problem with that statement. Well, actually, the problemS (plural)... *heavy sigh*... Geeez... Too early in the morning for this... *strumming fingers on table*... Well, shit. Here we go, I suppose...
For starters, we are supposedly dealing with a god that is "omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving, omnibenevolent, annnnnnd PERFECT." (Just to get that out of the way.) Secondly, that same god is totally responsible for the writing of the bible which is suppose to be the PERFECT message to ALL of humanity laying out the rules Man should use to live a proper and holy life. Everybody with me so far?... *looking around room*... Cog! Stop playing with your banana and pay attention... *mumbling*... (Damn dirty ape.) Anyway, next, for those who do not follow the perfect words of this god as laid out in his divinely inspired bible, that same all-loving omnibenevolent god will happily toss their asses into a lake of fire to be tortured for eternity. HOWEVER! That very same perfect bible that was created by an omnipotent and omniscient god has somehow managed to inspire several thousand different sects of religious belief systems. And many of those sects disagree so strongly with each other that they have spawned wars and countless atrocities between them over the centuries, resulting in untold numbers of unimaginably torturous deaths of innocent people. And these horrendous acts were ALL committed in the name of the SAME god. (Believe me, I can't make this shit up. I'm not that creative.)
BUT, thankfully, all is not lost! For we now have the solution to the problem, thanks to our new friend Mr. Moran. Yep, ladies and gentlemen, the answer has been right there in front of our faces for hundreds of years, but we have just been too blind and ignorant to see it. The solution is so easy and obvious, it is no wonder why it was overlooked. ALL we have to do to get everybody back in line with the proper teachings of the bible is simply teach the entire world population how to speak and read Hebrew. Problem SOLVED!
(Oh, and please disregard the fact that the same god created multiple languages across the globe to purposely complicate communications between different cultures/societies. That is irrelevant.)
@Segev Moran: It's like a magic show. Get the gullible to pay attention to the right hand so they don't see what the left hand is doing. Each time you think you got it figured out, they toss you a new twist and manage to keep you in the land of smoke and mirrors. Amphibology Fallacy stacked upon Amphibology Fallacy and all done in an effort to avoid answering a simple question. "What evidence do you have for the existence of a god or gods?" The answer in nowhere in the proper understanding of ancient Jewish texts.
Well, it is all over. We ARE reading it wrong. And of course YOUR teachers knew the right way, and so you learnt the exact way to go to all four levels and explain to us morons exactly where we lack knowledge.
I wish I had 50 cents even, never mind a dollar for each time I heard this bunkum, flim flam and malarkey.
Realise this, mr programmer of websites (fnaaarrr) it all boils down to your subjective, very personal revelation.
Now, change your affiliation to theist, please fuck off from the Atheist Hub, oh, and learn that personal revelation is NOT evidence of a ny god or gods. If you can't come up with something better....well....