Assalamu Alaykum everyone (atheist and non-atheist)
I really love my religion and I protect it dearly with accurate scientific facts. I have had many many conversations with atheists and I have no beef with any of them except the ones that cuss when they lose the conversation battle.
Normally, the conversation ends before it begins because of the examples I give in my first post and I believe it is due to the atheist losing his/her trust among his fellow non-believers or the money he/she makes from his/her website or group.
I wanna refrain from giving an example but there will be no conversation to begin with if i do that... so here it goes.
simply
I the Quran ch. 81:1 the verse states "If the sun becomes spherical"
- someone will open up the English translations to the Quran and say that the verse doesn't say that, but the translation is wrong, I'm an Arab and I know my language. Open google translate and paste this word كورت to know its translation. Then check the Arabic text to see if I have made any changes to it... Nope. Therefore the verse is saying exactly what I said in the beginning.
Now paste this NASA link:
https://www.nasa.gov/topics/solarsystem/features/oblate_sun.html
It explains that the sun indeed isn't spherical
That article was written in 2008... the Quran was written about 1440 years ago
so the question is........... in 2008 the discovery was made using high tech equipment, how was it in the Quran?
*** this question is just a teaser
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I guess Zeus must exist because Ancient Greek philosophers such as Democritus referred to the existence of atoms many centuries before they were proven to exist.
That isn't an answer man!
Zeus was not the one that claimed that atoms exist
Can you prove that Democritus was not inspired by Zeus?
Why should I even try to do so?
He didn't say so
He didn't say he was inspired by Allah, so according to your logic, Democritus must be God.
@Mohamed
Wa-Alaikum Salaam. Welcome to the AR. I'm afraid I am not familiar enough with the Koran to have a very productive discussion with you, but there are plenty of folks on here who are. Just wanted to say "Howdy" real quick and let you know I will be following this thread a bit, because I do always like to learn whenever given the chance. Have fun. You may have your hands full before you know it... *grin*...
Mohamed,
"I would like 1 decent chat with an atheist without being kicked out
Assalamu Alaykum everyone (atheist and non-atheist)"
Remember the hadith =
"Sahih Muslim Book 026, Hadith Number 5389.
Chapter : Prohibition of saying first as-Salam-u-Alaikum to the people of the book, and how their salutations should be responded.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not greet the Jews and the Christians before they greet you and when you meet any one of them on the roads force him to go to the narrowest part of it."
http://www.hadithcollection.com/sahihmuslim/154-Sahih%20Muslim%20Book%20...
Your starting a different kind of conversation which doesn't belong here.
I am not a follower of the hadith and it is a fight among Muslims which I really don't care about.
Allah says in Ch. 4:86 =
" When you are greeted with a greeting, respond with a better greeting, or return it. God keeps count of everything. "
and in the same Ch. 4:90 in the end after battle =
" If they withdraw from you, and do not fight you, and offer you peace, then God assigns no excuse for you against them. "
are you looking for a fight? :)
Mohamed,
"I am not a follower of the hadith and it is a fight among Muslims which I really don't care about."
According to the fairy tale if you are true muslim you have to believe in all of it.
Surah 4:150-151 = "Lo! those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers,
and seek to make distinction between Allah and His messengers,
and say: We believe in some and disbelieve in others,
and seek to choose a way in between;
Such are disbelievers in truth;
and for disbelievers We prepare a shameful doom."
https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Tafsir/004.150.html
hahaha
Allah sent the Quran to the Prophet, not a bunch of writings heard and passed from one person to the next
Ch. 6:96 "This too is a Scripture that We revealed—blessed—verifying what preceded it, that you may warn the Mother of Cities and all around it. Those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and are dedicated to their prayers."
Ch. 7:2 "A Scripture was revealed to you, so let there be no anxiety in your heart because of it. You are to warn with it—and a reminder for the believers."
Ch. 14:1 "Alif, Lam, Ra. A Scripture that We revealed to you, that you may bring humanity from darkness to light—with the permission of their Lord—to the path of the Almighty, the Praiseworthy."
Ch. 38:29 "[This is] a blessed Book which We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], that they might reflect upon its verses and that those of understanding would be reminded."
Ch 50:45 "We are fully aware of what they say, and you are not a dictator over them. So remind by the Quran whoever fears My warning."
*** The Quran ya m3alim
It seems there are a number of folks who translate that line quite differently. I’m going to guess that many of the folks cited here (link below) know Arabic at least as well as (you say) you do.
https://www.islamawakened.com/quran/81/1/default.htm
Nope
they took the translation of the English from the translation of the meaning of the verse in Arabic.
our ancestors couldn't tell that the sun isn't round! + there hasn't been any updates to the translation of the Quran for more than 1000 years
Wait, are you saying Democritus wrote the Quran?
Is the Quran about atoms?
Depends on which Muslim is trying to demonstrate advanced scientific knowledge from ambiguous passages.
You're interesting
ok then... jumping to the next ambiguous passage
Your "scientists" explain that planets are made out of accumulated space dust
in Ch. 86:1-3 Allah says:
" The sky and the Taariq "
" What do you know about the Taariq "
" A perforating star "
check out the picture I attached for a section of the Carina nebula and tell me what you think.
still ambiguous?
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
You haven't yet answered whether or not you regard Democritus as God because he unambiguously mentioned atoms many centuries before their existence was proved.
@Mohamed
" The sky and the Taariq "
" What do you know about the Taariq "
" A perforating star "
check out the picture I attached for a section of the Carina nebula and tell me what you think.
still ambiguous?"
You are being very vague. That small snapshot is part of a larger picture of Mystic Mountain.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Mystic_mountai...
First off, please define "perforated"
Please define "Taariq"
Let us get the definitions down and more clarity before we proceed.
You wrote, “they took the translation of the English from the translation of the meaning of the verse in Arabic.”
I don’t understand what you are saying. Please restate.
“...there hasn't been any updates to the translation of the Quran for more than 1000 years”
I don’t believe that.
The Arabic translation for the meaning of the verse states that:
the sun
1- loses it's light
2- becomes erased
3- falls down
you will find different English translations with one of these meanings in the text.
* Arabic words are old like Latin and what not and not everyone knows their meaning so there are translations for their meanings. Instead of translating the Quran word for word into English, they just took the meanings Islamic scholars assumed.
You wrote, “* Arabic words are old like Latin and what not and not everyone knows their meaning so there are translations for their meanings. Instead of translating the Quran word for word into English, they just took the meanings Islamic scholars assumed.”
So you are saying that you are an expert in ‘old’ Arabic? Or are you saying you are a better Islamic scholar than those others?
What if I say yes?
Well, that’s a decidedly unresponsive answer.
Fine...
Islamic scholars are not interested in the meaning of Quranic texts as much as they are interested in the Hadiths. The arabic words are old but we do have dictionaries. What I did (which Islamic scholars didn't do) was open up the dictionaries and make more sense of the texts.
Even though what I'm saying is new to Islamic scholars, if you present to them what I have translated, they could not deny it.
I have done that but you don't hear about it because of politics... I live in Egypt and I don't want to get into politics... but you have to know that you will hear about this soon
Mohamed, please provide data / proof to back up these assertions. Without that, what you have just said provides no reason for me, or anyone else, to believe you.
In the beginning of my conversation I asked whoever would like to conversate to take the word كورت and paste in google translate from Arabic to English.... you are supposed to get only 1 answer SPHERICAL
The word does not mean anything else... so when the old Islamic scholars said that the meaning of the verse is one of the 3 possibilities I provided, it was only because they didn't know that the sun wasn't a complete 100% sphere... so they gave it another meaning.
That should be sufficient proof
“That should be sufficient proof”
It is not. You have made quite a number of assertions (I could gather a list of them from your posts if you’re unable to recognize them) and have provided nothing substantive to back them up.
If it’s honest, reasonable debate you want, then you, sir, need to ante up. Or do you actually think that it’s acceptable to bring assertions into the discussion without the need to defend them with anything other than ‘google translate’?
" You have made quite a number of assertions (I could gather a list of them from your posts if you’re unable to recognize them)"
I ask you to copy and paste the word on google translate (which you probably didn't do)... and it is still an assertion? With all respect man, that is ridiculous. Unfortunately you are not an Arab or a Muslim which means that I have to take you through the history books and modern conflicts and that is not the reason why I registered to this website. Here in Egypt, I'm haunted by the government because I have made religious scholars look like story telling children... and they don't want this embarrassment. Up till this point in our conversation, you are no different.
I can't show you the result in an Arabic dictionary because you wouldn't understand. I have nothing else to offer you. This is the best I can do for you situation and frankly it is GOOD ENOUGH. All of a sudden google translate is B.S.? You, my friend are the one that needs to ante up.
The odorous stench of an argument from authority floats upon the kindling wind.
Mohumped: "I ask you to copy and paste the word on google translate (which you probably didn't do)"
I did. The translation I got was "conglomerate." So the fuck what?
rmfr
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