Is Jesus Christ the Messiah?( Yes/No and why)

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Chris T.'s picture
Is Jesus Christ the Messiah?( Yes/No and why)

Pretty self explanatory subject. I for one do not think he is/was,whatever. Not only did he not live up to the all prophecies, it is impossible for him to live up to some of them. The prophecies state an "all or none" policy. Also, it does not mention a second coming to fulfill them.

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ex-christian_atheist's picture
This is really an easy

This is really an easy question to predict answers to. All the chritians will say yea, all the atheists will say no, all the muslims will say no, but he was an important prophet.

Chuck Rogers's picture
Apparently you haven't read

Apparently you haven't read the Bible!

Zaphod's picture
No Jesus of Nazareth in the

No Jesus of Nazareth in the bible actually says he is not Christ even if Jesus of Nazareth existed and were a messiah or anointed one /high priest according to the bible he said he was not Christ. Around the same area he said he was a son of Abraham like all other men. but he saying he was not Christ is of significance because Christ is synonymous with the term anointed one or Messiah.

So to break it down, if Jesus of Nazareth did exist either he was lying about not being the Messiah or Christ, the Jesus of Nazareth in the bible is not the same Jesus which would mean Jesus Christ never existed and the incarnation religious people have created for worshiping purposes and claimed is Christ of the trinity is not the same Jesus as Jesus of Nazareth. Or the Bible is whack and can't be trusted as a source of information.

CyberLN's picture
There is an assumption in the

There is an assumption in the OP question...that there is even a messiah to begin with, let alone whether this jesus person is it.

Do I think jesus is the messiah? Nope. Because I don't think there is any such thing as a messiah.

Nyarlathotep's picture
"Also, it does not mention a

"Also, it does not mention a second coming to fulfill them."

Wouldn't it required a 3rd coming? Since (according to the story anyway) Jesus already came back once (3 days after he died). :P

Chris T.'s picture
According to the prophecies,

According to the prophecies, "the anointed one" will be a man with two human parents, that is a descendent of King David and his son Soloman on his fathers side. Also, he is suppose to be a great political leader and "lord of war". Jesus can never live up to being the descendant of King David and Soloman since he is fact a demi god. Also, in the original teachings, he is to be/do ALL of these things before he can pronounced the " Messiah". Hence why the Jewish community does not recognize him as a Messiah. The Jewish teachings says that if someone claiming to be the Messiah that did not fulfill ALL the prophecies, is to be killed. Well we all know how that ended.
Chuck Rodgers, can you elaborate on your statement?
Nyarlathotep, haha, good point. I never thought of it like that. Yes, technically that would be a "3rd" coming.
Zaphod, can you site verses?

Zaphod's picture
I am able to but i'll have to

I am able to but i'll have to come back later after I find it. I have sited the verse I am referring to on here before.

Zaphod's picture
I specifically choose to use

I specifically choose to use the king James Version of the bible even though its by far one the most inaccurate versions commissioned to be made by King James( a lad with much blood on his hands who fancied other lads) in 1604 and was being written when Guy Fawkes a Catholic who tried to assassinate him because the commissioned copy was inaccurate being made to make conformity from people who believed in other earlier translations easier, and King James had passed a law that made it so people had to swear allegiance to the king above the Pope. Anyways I chose this version though rest assured there are many instances in many versions of the bible including this one that support the claim, just because of a particular theist who has now posted on this topic who thinks highly of this version to say Matthew 16:20 KJV where Jesus told hid disciples that they should "tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ."

Chris T.'s picture
I think the context to that

I think the context to that verse was more along the lines of, don't tell people about me being the Christ, as in, its our little secret. Jesus, supposivly told many people to keep it hush hush. Mostly the ones he" healed". Even though "miracles" are not even a characteristic of the "Messiah".

Zaphod's picture
I does seem to lean that way

I does seem to lean that way in the KJV but other versions go much more in the I am a descendant of Abraham and son on man direction.

Chris T.'s picture
You know what they say, "If

You know what they say, "If you don't like what the bible says keep reading, it will

Chuck Rogers's picture

First big big big, mistake about King James. Many of the negative things said about him was well after his death.
Second King James didn't even take part in the translation, he only appointed scholars to do the translation of which there was between 50 to 60, of which some were college professors of which the English language as a school subject still uses their principles today. They set the standard, and there has not been a group of people of that magnitude at any other time. God knows how to get things done the right way.
Third King James didn't even want his name on the Bible, it was known as the Authorized Bible first. Then people added his name to it, and it was the only Bible until the perversion NKJ came out that had KING in it's title. A very appropriate name given Jesus is KING of kings and LORD of lords.

Forth Yes Chris T was right in that that scripture simply shows Jesus telling others not to say He is the Christ, because He knew the people would want to set Him on the throne to rule and reign. But that was not what He came for the first time. If you read in Luke 4:18,19 Jesus is reading the scripture from Isaiah 61:1,2 but He stopped short of finishing verse 2 at a comma which is referred to a 2000 year comma because though the second part of that verse will be fulfilled shortly when Jesus comes the second time as the lion ofthe tribe of Judah. But His first coming was as the lamb of God to be sacrificed for the ssin of the world. Of which you can read about in Isaiah 53.

The reason most Jews didn't accept Jesus as the Christ at His first coming was because they were more interested in Him taking over and bringing Israel to the ruling nation again, instead of the bondage they were under by Roman rule.

So Jesus never said He was not the Messiah!!!!!!!!

By the way glad to see someone isn't afraid to go to God's real word, the Authorized King James Bible. :)

Zaphod's picture
But he also never said he was

But he also never said he was but he did say something about those who deny him.

Chuck Rogers's picture
You are mistaken again, read

You are mistaken again, read John 4, and pay close attention to verses 25 and 26.

Zaphod's picture
Huh Interesting, finally

Huh Interesting, finally after all this time you have something wotrthwhile to bring up. Its interesting because he was admitting to being "called Christ" in those verses according to the KJV of the bible John 4: 25 and 26 "25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. 26Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. " you know this person who this woman has heard is "called Christ". Gimme some more!

Chuck Rogers's picture

All it takes is one verse to shut you down on your claim, but this is one of the greatest, though Jesus doesn't say straight out that He is the Messiah in this verse, but the Messiah is the only way.
John 14:6 KJV
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Zaphod's picture
Wow, it took you a long time

Wow, it took you a long time to come up with something where Jesus did not, I repeat DID NOT say he was the Messiah. give me one verse where Jesus actually says he is the Messiah or Christ. Since you already pointed out he did not say he is the messiah in this verse I will not bother picking it apart. Don't get me wrong if Jesus did ever exist and I do believe he did I think he may have been a good person but nothing like the new testaments make him out to be and surely not the son of god a lot of theist want to make him out to be.

Side note: Did you know that the KJV was translated from an Italian version, which means it was most likely traslated from a roman catholic version of the bible. which would likely make their rendition closer or more accurate than the rendition commissioned by King James which was commissioned the political reason of getting people to conform to the rules of his kingdom.

Also another side note: Did you know King James suffered and died a long painful and miserable death full of about 10 years of severe arthritis, gout, port red urine and worsening frequency of kidney stones, he even suffered eventual stroke and dysentery (bloody diarrhea) a rather ungodly amount suffering for someone responsible for changing the translation of the bible to a "more accurate" depiction. I am not saying God had it out for him, but I am saying if god did exist one would imagine god would have given a person responsible for a more accurate depiction of his supposed word a more peaceful exit.

Chuck Rogers's picture
Just been busy Zaphod.

Just been busy Zaphod.
You apparently misunderstood what I was saying.
Just because Jesus didn't outright say He was the Messiah, He did plenty to prove it. And yes everything in the Bible is true, and not just about Jesus. If it was not then there is no hope. But I know God is able to keep His word forever.

You also need to do some real research on the KJB.

Chris T.'s picture
"Plenty" is not what the

"Plenty" is not what the prophecies say. It strictly say all the specifics. Which Jesus did not do. As I stated before, miricles were not the characteristics of the Messiah. Miricles were discluded because "God" have the power of miricles to the cmmon man to prove he was real and also they still believed in witchcraft back then. Miricles are actually more of a sign of a false Messiah rather than the actual one. That's why it was VERY important that the claimed Messiah fulfill the prophecies in full. Which Christ DID NOT.

Chris T.'s picture
*"God"gave....,*common man...

*"God"gave....,*common man....

Nyarlathotep's picture
"And yes everything in the

"And yes everything in the Bible is true"

Even when it gives different numbers for the same quantity? Imagine if someone tried that in real life:

Customer: I'd like to buy this couch.
Cashier: Nice, that will be 600 dollars please.
Customer: Here is a 50, have a nice day.
Cashier: Wait, 50 is not the same as 600.
Customer: The bible says it is and "everything in the Bible is true".
Cashier: Security!

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Chris T I must correct your

Chris T I must correct your prophecies version.

You missed the most important part about those prophecies, that the messiah would redeem Israel.
Make Israel a state again how it was before the Babylonian exile.

Thus the Messiah would unite Israel as a nation state again.

The prophecy was that; He would restore Israel to power in the world.

The Jew admit that that never happened till now.

So no Messiah yet fulfilled those prophecies including Jesus which distorts a version of those prophecies to validate Christianity.

Josephus, the only historian of this era in 70 A.D has a very sick interpretation of those prophecies.
He claims that the Jews were wrong in thinking that the messiah was a jew and the proper interpretation was that a messiah would rise out of Israel to rule the world.
Then he claimed that Vespasian Flavius(the roman emperor) was the anointed messiah which has risen out of Israel with a triumphant victory over the Jewish defilers of the temple of god.

carol's picture
Jesus Christ was the Messiah

Jesus Christ was the Messiah in 33 BC and is now. He rose from the grave, promising that whoever called upon Him would be saved. He is coming again soon. He comes riding on the white horse and the rider is called Faithful and True.

Chris T.'s picture
Why a "white horse"? Is he

Why a "white horse"? Is he racist too? 8)

Chris T.'s picture
I didn't say the terms I

I didn't say the terms I listed were the only prophecies, I just named a few. Your right, redeeming Israel is another one. Also, peace around the world with no concept of war. That didn't happen either. Christians claim that Jesus will fulfill some of those in the 2nd/3rd,lol, coming. Even if that were true, as of now, he, by definition, is not the Messiah. The fact that he can never accomplish some of the prophecies (he is not a descendent of a human male and missed the time window) highly suggest he can never be.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Chris the jew never accepted

Chris the jew never accepted jesus as the messiah because of that reason and because their ancestors knew that the jesus story was a mocker of their defeat against the romans during the first roman- jewish war.

Jesus constantly shows how wrong are the jews and supports all the enemies of the jews like the gentile, samaritans, tax collectors.
He mocks them with the excuse that piece is better then hatred, ignoring the bad deeds or history between them. Just telling the jews that they should give the other cheek.

It is a mockery to their culture, jesus constantly shows how bad the jews were till the end since they crucified him.
Because of this, the jews suffered antisemitism throughout history.

Christianity was an anti-jewish religion.
The romans at the time created a pasifistic reigion for the jews that we call rabbinic judiasm.

watch this, you won't be sorry:

Chris T.'s picture
Jeff, that video was amazing!

Jeff, that video was amazing! Thank you. Can you translate the title tho? Also, the fact the Jews did not accept Jesus was a point I was slowly,but surely, coming too.They are only the original denomination of what is now Christianity, what do they know? Lol.

CyberLN's picture
There were many different

There were many different sects of Judaism before, during, and after the time jesus supposedly lived. There was anti-Semitics before the time jesus supposedly lived as well.

Certainly the jesus crucifixion by jews story is a factor in the continuance of anti-semitism. There are many others too.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Caesar Messiah is the title.

Caesar Messiah is the title.

"They are only the original denomination of what is now Christianity, what do they know? Lol."

They have learned to be smart and not interfere with the sheep. lol

The Romans gave them a hard beating that kept going till WW2 thanks to Christianity,
Their courageous rebellion against impossible odds cost them too much. They just learned their lesson the hard way.

The Jewish leaders invented the messianic prophecies after the Babylonian exile to give hope to the totally defeated Jews.

They were promised by god the promised land and not only they did not capture it but they were exiled from it. Their most sacred temple destroyed by their enemies, thus they thought that god has left them since he did not even defend his own temple.
The situation was so hopeless that the elite of the Jewish priests had to invent hope where there wasn't any at all.

They told the Jews that prophets had predicted their exile but do not despair because those same prophets had also predicted a messiah that would redeem Israel.
The Jewish priest invented those prophets by back dating them in their history.
Thus the rise of the Jewish messianic prophecies comes from a desperate solution to control and unify the Jews after a crushing defeat.
The Romans saw how the Jews believed in these prophecies and also dared to go up against impossible odds, torture and Crucifixion and still be loyal to the last.
They just copied the same idea from the Jews by creating their own prophet Jesus that predicted the coming of the messiah, Vespasian and the Son of Man.
All this to:
- make the peasants and slaves side with the Romans and not the Jews during the roman-Jewish wars.(a political move)
- legalize the authority of the Flavians and give them divine status like the previous royal family.
- to avoid the penalty of death for Titus Flavius after destroying and looting a holy temple(showing incompetence in dealing with a bunch of rebels)

So the flavians at the time claimed that God wanted his temple destroyed and sent the messiah to do it.
Vespasian after the destruction of the temple denied the Jews to rebuild it and the money that was sent to the temple every week was to be sent by every Jew to a pagan temple in Rome instead.

Christianity was never intended to be a religion at first but more propaganda in a period of war.
Later actual gospels were created when something tangible was needed to deify Vespasian as a god by the senate.
Titus needed to present something to legitimize his bloodline as a good claim for the throne.
The most likely thing that happened was that Titus published those gospels in a way to make them liked by every culture.
There were so many gospels because every Provence had different cultures so the Romans distributed different gospels that had more chances of attracting the people of that Provence.
That is why you have gospels with Jesus not dying at all and gospels where he does not rise from the dead, etc.

The main objective was to gather as many followers as possible that accepted Jesus prophecies and not to be consistent.
The vast majority of people at the time could not even read, so why bother.

Later in history the Gnostic gospels were deemed heretical and half the Christians were killed by the Literals because of it.
Thus leaving only the literals(the one that believed in a historical Jesus)

The Literals wrote history after destroying most of the Gnostic gospels and their followers.

The Muslims creators copied the same idea and created Mohammed in the same manner by backdating him.

Chuck Rogers's picture
Show me in the Bible that

Show me in the Bible that Jesus said He wasn't the Messiah.


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