I’m aware that I’m in an atheist community but since that this forum allows a theist like me, let me share my own healing experience with my faith in Jesus Christ. I’d been terribly sick few years ago and I thought I will never be healthy again but as I pray often and give my faith to Jesus, I was healed and now living and healthier than ever. I know atheists will view this as another foolish story but Jesus healed the sick people during his time and now he still heals the sick that no doctor in this world can do.
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Interesting perspective ....
Although completely lacking in context or evidence ....
there is a widespread rationalist maxim ...it goes something like ....
Whatever can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without reason.
You may believe that Jesus did and ,indeed can heal the sick ... that is entirely your perogative ,
however I would suggest that in the event you develop ,say , diabetes ...you stick with the Insulin.
Remember this too ...forget the dude in the fancy frock carrying the cross... its the guy in the white coat with the stethoscope who will get the job done.
Watchman addressed that perfectly.
The one line that actually addresses this well is "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without reason."
Though, you can believe that Jesus healed you through prayer and faith, it probably in all honesty was a placebo. If there is no evidence to back up your healing, then none of us here will believe its credible. My own Aunt(Very devote christian) had a terrible sickness that she thought she'd perish from. She prayed to Jesus, and slowly began to heal until she was healthy. This doesn't seem probable at all, it's just faith, with no evidence behind it. It sits at just a farfetched claim.
Though, I do appreciate your insight and participation in the forum!
Pretty vague, aren't you ?
Can you be more specific in the illness ?
Did you see a doctor ?
If so, what was his prognosis ?
Are you sure you actually got well ?
If you didn't see a doctor, how do we know that you were actually sick and not just being an hypochondriac ?
Your story means nothing without some references and /or evidence.
When I hear a story of being healed by Jesus, it reminds me of all the stories I have heard from Muslims who beyond any doubt in their mind were healed by Allah, of the Hindi I spoke with who told me of his personal miracles from Krishna, and all of the people I know who have been sick and prayed everyday, but were not healed. And I ask myself, why in the world would I believe one of these stories has any more weight than another? They all look equally incorrect to me.
"I pray often and give my faith to Jesus, I was healed and now living and healthier than ever."
It's great that you were healed and are now healthy.
According to the World Food Programme, poor nutrition causes nearly half (45%) of deaths in children under five - 3.1 million children each year.
Clearly, your god deems you more worthy of healing than over 3 million children each year, which would be a fair indicator about the sense of priority you god has, right?
What conclusion should we draw about the character of this deity based on the 'evidence' you present?
When faith regrows lost limbs then ill be impressed.
"Why bother" ...
Well ,if you only converse with those who hold the same or similar views to your own ... you will learn nothing.
You will be able to help no-one ...
Mardze is pleasant enough ,a little misguided perhaps but does that mean we should abandon her. Not give her an alternative view that she may or may not find useful . But that choice is up to her ...surely.
I always chalk it up to either "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" or its sibling "cum hoc, ergo propter hoc." As someone who has also survived illnesses that are often terminal, I can safely say that the medications and procedures saved my life, not deities. The problem is that it's always anecdotal. We don't hear about any other things going on, such as (as been said) nutrition, therapies, second opinions, or any of that.
We're not sure if those biblical encounters of Jesus to the sick is authentic or now. Our mind is powerful enough so I think it's all about the law of attraction...
"Watchman-I guess you missed my point. "
No kenny.marken I think I picked up on your point ...
it seems you think that some people are not worth talking to ..
You seem to think these ,what is it you call them ? morons ,are somehow beneath your consideration...
Personally I've seldom held anyone in such low esteem. Also you seem to overlook the effect of such conversations on those who don't partake themselves but may also benefit from observing more "logical" thought patterns.
"If you feel good about trying to convince Martze that Jesus didn't "heal" her -go ahead. "
Thank you ... I will .. although...
I was not aware I tried to convince Martze of any thing ... I believe I merely pointed out the inconsistency in her statement and presented an alternative view for her to consider.
You go on ...
"To "answer" someone # .... # who says Jesus "healed" them that seems ridiculous--well just plain dumb." ...
Well that may be your opinion and of course you are entitled to it .... however I have to say ,
"that seems ridiculous--well just plain dumb."
but that ,of course is just my opinion.
Personally i believe any non offensive post/topic deserves a response after all if we ignore the idiots whos left to talk to lol
Sorry couldnt resust the last part but seriously theists are practically slaves its our duty to help them.
By the way watchman i love your posts have you had an iq test?
watchman, I am impressed with the excellent reply you have made.
and yes i agree that:
"Well ,if you only converse with those who hold the same or similar views to your own ... you will learn nothing.
You will be able to help no-one ...
Mardze is pleasant enough ,a little misguided perhaps but does that mean we should abandon her. Not give her an alternative view that she may or may not find useful . But that choice is up to her ...surely."
Keep it up
"it seems you think that some people are not worth talking to"
there are some people which are not worth talking to, eg: spammers
just pointing that out.
kenny.marken
on the other hand, i think that you need to control what you think about someone and not let it effect your judgment of an argument.
I agree with you that theists are in effect stupid to a certain level.
However that doesn't mean that you should let your bias interfere with your judgement about them.
Sometimes a word said to someone might effect someone else, just passing by.
Calling them morons, etc.. may have the opposite effect of what the common good is even if they are.
Having read his posts and yours hes way smarter than you land a nicer person ol
I never claimed i was nice lol
Im aware of my flaws and try not to tell people i wish they didnt exist because i aint that much of a &£@:%#
If you have no interest in engaging in discussion/debate with theist Kenny. marken, then why did you join? Do you want to leave the debate forums?
So Mardze, if you don't mind me asking, what was it you were sick from?
I myself have a mother who is very religious she prays for just about everything when something good comes to pass she is always right there saying I was just praying for this yesterday. she does this all th e time and it is actually quite annoying. I can do a ridiculous amount of work and I mean a ridiculous amount of work and at the end of it all when I finally get somewhere good with the work I am doing my mom chimes in with I was just praying for this the other day or yesterday or earlier today. It's not that I don't believe my mom its just that she trivializes all the work I do by placing the success of it all on her prayers to God. If she prays her heart out for something and it never happens she writes it up as under either just not a part of gods plan or simply one of those everything happens for a reason things. Point being she prays for everything if you keep praying its 12 o-clock all day every day your bound to have your prayer answered twice a day.
kenny.marken ..
"Watchman and Jeff-You said "everyone" is entitled to their own opinion." ... damn right!
"But if you believe stupid things it gives me great pleasure to say how I feel. Your a moron." .... that's fine .... I've got no problem with you expressing your opinion.
"I don't care. I am not interested in changing or saving the world. Believe what you want just leave me alone." .... Fair enough ... but if you check back through the thread I think you'll find it was you who initiated this exchange.
" You might think it worthwhile to convince even one of 100 to of the 'error" of their ways." yes ... I believe it is worthwhile ...1 in 100 ...1 in 1000 ... even 1 in 10,000. How do you know how many more that 1 might reach and then those in their turn ... but you get the picture.
"It is fine with me. Keep up the good" fight ". OK ... nice to have your blessing.
But "beliefs" are hard to change and for me it is not worth the "effort". ....
Again its your choice ... But I can't help but think you protest too much .... and yet , and yet you can't quite help yourself ... trying to change what I believe ?
So you do think its worth the "effort".?
This is a debate room right? So, think even theists are welcome to start thread here. I have no intention of making you believe what I does, I just want to convey how I feel whether it will affect you atheists or not.
That's cool as long as your here to debate. I asked a question above would you like to answer? If it 's a private matter that's fine too I'll understand, just let me know.
I can add another healing of Jesus myself. One that yes I did see the doctor.
I used to work at a business that cut out thick stacks of cardboard with a banbsaw to be used in future. This was before I was saved. I started showing signs of arthritis in my hands and elbows. My back was getting sore more and more as time went on. This was back in 1997 - 1999. One day at work lifting some of the cardboard my back went out on me. They took me to their doctor who had me get a cat scan. He told me he believed I was going to have to have surgery. But first he wanted me to get an MRI. He got me an appointment at the University of Tennessee hospital that was in two weeks. I had been listening to a Doctor on the radio that always speaks about vitamins and minerals and such that our bodies need. He also talked about glucosamine for arthritis. So I started taking three times the amount on the bottle. When I went for my MRI. I talked to the Doctor at U.T. Hospital and told him what I had been taking and that the pain was going away that was shooting down my legs, and that I could almost touch my toes again. He told me to keep doing what I was an d as long as I kept getting better, keep taking it. Well what I noticed was that as long as I kept taking it I was doing pretty good. But if I ran out and didn't get any for a couple of days the pain would return. I started working at a place building mobile homes in the water line and plumbing department. In August of 2002 I got saved. I was still having to take the glucosamine. But my joints were still having issues, including now my knees. Within the first couple of days I got saved, I ran out of my glucosamine. So I got down on the floor and prayed for God to heal me. I got to the point before I got saved that I had to wear knee pads to put together the plumbing pipes. And for a little while after I prayed about it I didn't even think about it I just put the knee pads on as normal. But then I realized my pain was gone and I took off the knee pads and didn't need them anymore. I didn't buy anymore glucosamine after I prayed, until several months later. I seen some on a store shelf and I figured I would get some. It wasn't because my back or anything else hurt, I just figured it's good for me why not just take it for that reason. When I got home I took some and no problem, but the next day my back started hurting again. I went to the cupboard and went to get the glucosamine and God said "you asked me to take care of you" so I put it back and all these years later no problems with my back or any joints. I say Glory to God!!!
"God can heal however He wants to... Glory to God!!!"
I'm happy to hear you were healed. Why do you think your god does NOT want to heal over 3 million children who die each year of starvation?
You, living in one of the richest societies in the planet's history, suffering from the inconvenient but not life-threatening problem of arthritis, with access to the best health care society has to offer, get healed. Yay! Now you can continue to live better than 99% of the planet's inhabitants. Meanwhile, children starving in the poorest regions on Earth are routinely ignored by this same god. Does this matter to you? Should it matter to you, based on the teachings in the book you consider holy?
Are you more worthy than those children? If not, what does this imply about the character of your god?
Standing O well done.
She has just had the dopamine effect. It's common amongst theist.
www.whywontgodhealamputees.com This is another good website
i wonder if mardze knows how selfish this sounds. maybe mardze should go down to her local childrens hospital and tell those kids dying of incurible diseases how special she is that she was saved by jesus but how they are not. i could not see myself thinking so selfishly. WOW! you religious never cease to amaze me with your comments.
Why would someone who knows the truth go and tell children they are not saved? What anyone who has truly been saved, would do if they go and talk to any that are sick and dying, is that Jesus died for them so that they can be in Heaven. And explain the way of salvation. Our church goes to the nursing home every month. We don't have a children's hospital in our area. But if we did have one we would go and tell them that glorious truth.
John Higgins Jr
I wonder what you would tell those children. Oh don't worry it will all be over soon and then you won't have any memories of this life because when you die it's just all over, no pain, no nothing, it is just over. You may as well tell them they might as well commit suicide. But you, nor any other Atheist knows what is after this life, because you have never been there. And what if you are wrong, then who's fault is it if they have to suffer for eternity?
Years ago, I was aquainted with a woman who had MS, for which there is no cure. It wasted her body. She could no longer walk. Her organs were failing. She was emotionally fragile and was offered answers by some people who saw this fragility and took advantage of it. This fundamentalist xtian preacher and church community convinced her that if she believed enough, was repentant enough, was good enough, prayed hard enough, their gawd would cure her. Of course, she had to tithe a large amount of money to their church.
It saddens me that this otherwise lovely person went to her death feeling unworthy, feeling not good enough, feeling like a failure. Those fundies were thieves and liars.
Unfortunately there are many churches and organizations that are not worth the time of day. They give a bad name to what a Christian is supposed to be. Before I was born my Dad and Mom went to a church to visit. A day or so later, the so called preacher and his deacon came to their house and talked to them a little while. Then they asked about tithing. It made my Dad angry and He kicked them out. He never went back to a church again for the reason of seeking God.
Those kind of people, I don't believe were ever called of God to preach. They are hirelings, and they don't care about people's souls.
But unfortunately many people that things like that along with other things that so called churches do and believe they are all one in the same. That couldn't be farther than the truth.
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