Lets rewind

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Travis Hedglin's picture
Then if someone meets you and

Then if someone meets you and perceives you improperly, as a one-eyed Chinese woman for instance, and this is when we have to test our perceptions. Now, testing and verifying perceptions give us a greater probability of being correct, but never 100%. Statements of truth are statements about something objective, the reality we all happen to coexist in, but the statements are ALL subjective to some degree.

ThePragmatic's picture
You deserve credit for openly

You deserve credit for openly admitting your failures in your method of approach and trying to start over.

Unfortunately I think you still misunderstand atheism.

Many atheists have been subjected to religion by family, friends, and/or their surrounding society in general. The struggle to get out of religion and the everyday pressure from the surrounding society, Leaves many atheists feeling like they have been violated and/or are continously beeing violated by the theocracy they live in.
Realizing that one does not believe in the respective religion, and that one does not need these beliefs, feels like having your mind set free. Yet, most are still alone and trapped in a sea of mindless religious "zombies".

Trying to convince atheists of the existence of God is a futile exercise, since most of us require more than just having a few words thrown at us to have our minds changed. At best, you may succeed in winning a discussion built on abstract logic and semantics. Although I find that very unlikely (no offense intended).

I quote myself from the thread "Is it too much to ask?":

Using logic to argue for the existence of God, will lead nowhere. We can use "logic" to "prove" the opposite just as easily:

God is omniscient. For any action that an omniscient being can take, it would already be aware of the resulting consequence. Since God was the only thing that existed before creation, there would be no need for God to take any action. God would already be aware of every possible outcome. It would just be an exercise in complete futility.

Or how about this:
To believe is to not know. If you know, it is no longer just a mere belief, thus you are no longer a believer. Therefore, a believer cannot claim to know for sure that their God exists, as that would make them a nonbeliever.

ex-christian_atheist's picture
I am open to your challenge.

I am open to your challenge. Interestingly enough, I was in your shoes not too long ago. I was out looking to convert atheists to christianity, asking them to have an open mind, and ended up an atheist myself. I certainly have an open mind, but, I would ask that you be certain that you have an open mind as well. You ask us to leave our preconceptions, and I would ask you to do the same, including the preconception that there is a god, if that is one that you hold. If you are anything like me, and you truly are willing to leave that preconception aside, you might be the one with your beliefs challenged and their foundations shaken. I'm interested to see what you have to offer that you think we haven't heard before.

mysticrose's picture
You can't convince the

You can't convince the atheist here about the existence of the biblical deities.

Ellie Harris's picture
Christopher the last thing I

Christopher the last thing I would call myself is sophisticated, on any subject, as for arguments falling on deaf ears that depends on what a debator has to offer.


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