I searched for the supposed miracles of jesus. I found millions of sites that have volumes of material. So opted for this one because it lists all the miracles by category.
http://www.sharefaith.com/guide/christian-ministries/ministry-of-jesus/m...
The amazing thing to me was that there were only 31 or so and many of them aren't really miracles at all.
But what I want to do is to challenge anyone to PROVE that just one of these miracles is actually true.
The ONLY and I mean the ONLY record of any of these "miracles" is in bibles and NOT all of them.
The truth is that any "christian" only be concerned with one miracle, that being a resurrection. The Codex Sainaticus doesn't even have a resurrection which is the FOUNDATION of christianity.
It seems odd that jesus didn't perform what would have been the most logical miracle he could have if he had been real, or even existed at all, that being PROVING THAT THERE WAS A GOD in the first place. I mean, why the hell didn't he do that?
It's like, "Hey guys watch...It's god" "I know right?"
So why didn't jesus do that instead of all this bullshit? I know what all you christians will say. Something like "What happened was meant to be." That is because you are all a bunch of brainwashed people that have fallen for the biggest con ever conceived. The con where a prediction is made that is so vague and undefined that everything can be attributed to fulfilling the prediction making it SEEM valid.
I could predict that there will be a plane crash that will kill many people and go further and say that all the christians that die in the crash will know the "miracle of god and see jesus at the time of their death." well sooner or later a plane is going to crash, and most likely there will be christians on that plane, now you cannot PROVE if they saw jesus or not, but that is how con is played.
So take the challenge and PROVE these miracles.
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Mykcob4
Even if they were true, all of these miracles seem trivial and pointless. Weren't there any amputees that Jesus could have given new limbs to? Here's a man who can do anything. So he conjures up some wine, fishes and loaves of bread and kills a tree.
Really these so-called miracles are just the same kind of crap that the Xtian churches have peddled right down to the present day. The only real miracle that I can see is that so many fools actually take any of this bullshit seriously.
Algebe,
Modern man, including you and I, do far greater things that ancient people could consider miracles than any of the biblical characters ever did. But that's not the real purpose of including the "miracles" in the fairy tale. A valid case can be made that the miracles are actual acts of witchcraft/sorcery. So the people who did them should have be put to death. But that is avoided in the fairy tale by the writers including the statement in Exodus 34:10 (CEB) = "10 The Lord said: I now make a covenant. In front of all your people, I’ll perform dramatic displays of power that have never been done before anywhere on earth or in any nation. All the people who are around you will see what the Lord does, because I will do an awesome thing with you."
mykcob4,
According to the fairy tale the purpose of the miracles, whether done by Moses, Ezekiel, Yeshua, Peter, or Paul, was to fulfill the promise made in Exodus 34:10 (CEB) = "10 The Lord said: I now make a covenant. In front of all your people, I’ll perform dramatic displays of power that have never been done before anywhere on earth or in any nation. All the people who are around you will see what the Lord does, because I will do an awesome thing with you."
Remember, when reading the fairy tale all of the stories are based upon Exodus 34:10-28. Verses 12-26 contains the real Ten Commandments and all of the stories illustrate one or more of them. All of the miracles illustrate Verse 10. So before movies and tv a group of people could sit around a fire and the story teller would recite a story and the listeners would guess which of the Ten Commandments the story illustrated.
I accept your challenge, but the biblical miracles can never be proven or disproved However the modern miracles can. But before we can decide that we should probably decide of what exactly are the chances of a miracle happening.
Part the sea, essentially zero chance.
Talking serpent essentially zero chance.
Noah's ark story essentially zero chance, (plus all the evidence against it.)
Although, drugs plus over active imagination explains all of the above neatly.
Depends on your definition of "miracle" but no modern miracles have occurred either, (the word gets abused a lot in its strictest definition compared to its more casual definition.)
The "you cannot disprove it!" argument is childlike and nonsensical, it is a desperate argument that means nothing. I could write a vague book about what ever I want and say "you can not disprove it" as some sort of child like argument that the book I wrote has credence towards being true.
@JacobCorneluis
If you pull out that bullshit about the Portuguese girls that saw Mary and the sun move, then you are automatically disqualified. That shit has been disproven to you more than a dozen times on this forum and I don't want to relive that shit.
Also, you will have to provide REAL empirical proof, not some word salad bullshit from the bible!
Well then I can offer you too look at the many fulfilled prophecy's both from the bible and other catholic canon. if you don't believe that you can look at the healings at Lourdes that have been carefully Investigated by well funded independent doctors.
and if not look at the many sightings of the virgin Mary as well of some of their predictions for the future.
@JacobCorneluis
1) "look at the many fulfilled prophecy's both from the bible and other catholic canon." Not valid, no real proof, unsubstantiated and hearsay.
2) "healings at Lourdes" Not one confirmed case has been proven, no direct evidence. Not valid.
3) "look at the many sightings of the virgin Mary as well of some of their predictions for the future." Again not valid, hearsay evidence, not substantiated. All the predictions were and are vague and nonspecific which means that anything can be predicted and anything can be attributed to said prediction. Not proof.
I asked for proof, not a bunch of statements of alleged miracles.
mykcob4: "healings at Lourdes"
By definition Lourdes is a magnet for sick people suffering from who knows what infectious diseases. Yet everyday hordes of them wander around kissing statues, dipping hands in water, breathing all over each other. They should put up a sign: "The Miracle of Lourdes--Bring one disease, go home with three.
The money that goes down that drain could fund some really worthwhile medical research projects. It's a crime against humanity.
Well You probably hear this allot but what would you consider prove?
Repeatable testable evidence. If this god is all powerful, and actually cares if people believe in him like he says. Why the cat and mouse game? Why not just out with it undeniable testable evidence and proof, why lurk in the shadows with the occasional miracle that can not be substantiated?
Why cant there be a fountain somewhere where water goes in and wine comes out, and we can go look at it, drink from it, take it apart and measure it with our tools, verify for our selves there is no trickery, water goes in, wine comes out only because of miracle and god proving his power.
Why not part the sea more than just once? How about once a week, the sea parts for all unbeliever to go check out for them selves?
LogicForTW,
Do you remember the angel that stirred up the water in the bath of Bethesda and people would go into the pool and get cured of their ailments? Well, he got laid off 2,000 years ago and there hasn't been any money in the heavenly budget to pay for the pool's operations.
John 5:1-7 (NKJV) = "1 After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 2 Now there is in Jerusalem by the Sheep Gate a pool, which is called in Hebrew, Bethesda, having five porches. 3 In these lay a great multitude of sick people, blind, lame, paralyzed, waiting for the moving of the water. 4 For an angel went down at a certain time into the pool and stirred up the water; then whoever stepped in first, after the stirring of the water, was made well of whatever disease he had. 5 Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he already had been in that condition a long time, He said to him, “Do you want to be made well?”
7 The sick man answered Him, “Sir, I have no man to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; but while I am coming, another steps down before me.”
First you have to decide who has the miracle story right. Is it Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John?
it doesnt' seem like miracles,considering Jesus was a son of God who created the universe.
a member of an adavanced technological civilization could do better than Jesus.
in Kardashev scale,
Type III civilization — also called a galactic civilization — can control energy
on the scale of its entire host galaxy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale
it would probably be possible to resurrect a dead one for an extremely advanced civilization,which knows what consciousness
is.
it is not difficult to imagine god controlling the entire universe.
the gunuine miracle is that God created something from nothing.
how can god control nothing?
does it literally means that god can control nothing,then god is completely impotent?
I think the common theme here on this site is dismissing the whole of the story of the bible much less the jesus character and miracles thereof. I've pondered my wall paint and achieved greater knowledge. I just can't get a stiffy for theist thrashing anymore. Actually, it never did get that much of a rise out of me.
I have to go to a birthday party in a few minutes for a pilot friend who has attained the ripe old age of 80. I got him a card that reads: "In the beginning god created heaven and Earth" on the front. Inside is the question: "So, what was it like?"
Best religious card ever, though a bit of a stretch.
Hey, for anyone who would like a hilarious disenfranchisement of the religious meme get a copy of Mark Twain's Letters From The Earth. His coverage of Noah's Ark slays people and champions the beasts.
Ah Pitar
Count on you to add a little vulgarity to any thread. You "get a stiffy" trying to stick it to me. I don't care. The whole purpose is to dispell "miracles." Namely the resurrection. The resurrection is the whole basis of christianity, yet it never happened. Since you are the self-appointed hall monitor of making sure every subject is of a religious nature this thread shouldn't be a problem for you, but apparently there is NO pleasing you. Tough.
UM teM
Have any testable evidence your god created the universe from nothing? Your god doesn't exist.
Are you rejecting God created the universe from nothing?
I don't mean that in the bible,there is the precise sentence of "God created the universe from nothing."
god breaks the most primary principle in all of science and logical thinking.
The very law of conservation of energy. if it is not kept as the absolute and unbreakable law.
all the knowledge and truth in science(even in mathematics) could be a nonsense sooner or later.
for example, f(force)=m.a(m is the mass,a is the acceleration).if the energy is not conserved.
this Newton's second law of motion doesn't hold anymore.
and 1+1 could be 5,13434565656 or any other numbers.
why?
when something having 1cal (or any arbitrary units) of energy interacts with another 1cal of energy,
if god can make the total energy become always 5cal( or any other energy)in the universe.
does it make any sense that one plus one equals two when 1+1 equals 5 in all phenomena in the universe.
When something interacts with something,a certain result could arise.
but could something interact with nothing?
nothing is a word for representing something that doesn't exist in reality.
how can something interact(it doesn't matter whether or not it is omnipotent God) with nothing which actually doesn't exist.
however, Christians' arguments for the creation of the universe is holding the same in essence.
that God created something out of nothing is one of the most ridiculous and illogical even in the bible because it could mean
that the value of 1+1 could be any other numbers, including 1(say,God could make 1+1 equal 6,9,etc by his will)
So,the assertion that God created something from nothing(god's total energy didn't change,but the material energy of the universe changed from nothing to a finite value ) tantamounts to the denial of the eternal truth that 1+1 equals 2 regardless of whether or not
Christians comprehend it.
UV teM,
You can see creation just by looking out into space and seeing the formation of new stars. Creation is a continuous process. Once celestial hydrogen is formed from elemental particles and clumps together by its own gravity into gigantic balls it goes nuclear and a star is created. The star then cooks the hydrogen into new elements. Eventually life is created. We are just a transitional life form. So everything comes from the refinement of hydrogen atoms into new element. The celestial hydrogen came from elemental particles which came from essentially nothing (quantum foam). All of that can happen without a "God".
have you read what I wrote? I don't understand what you are talking about.
i don't care about how much the universe changes in appearance ,i only care about how much the total energy
of the universe changed from nothing into something by god's will.
The above writing was written to point out the absurdity of Christian's god who creates something from nothing.
Do you accept that the creation of something from nothing is fully logical?
then,I can't figure out how your writing is related to my writing.
you don't explain at all why something can be created from nothing.
UV teM
This is not proof of your god creating anything from nothing. What you have given me is a word salad. What is the difference between your god making the universe from nothing and the big bang?
Have you read what I wrote? I don't understand what you are talking about.
creating anything from nothing is a logical impossibility.how can i give you a proof of " creating anything from nothing" when
I don't believe that.
how can you know i have a god in my mind although i never said it.
i don't have any religions.i also don't believe in any gods who can create the universe and punish humankind
in the above writing,i think that i explained fully why creating anything from nothing is sheer nonsense,
UV teM,
The basic problem is that it's extremely difficult to understand what "Nothing" is and what its properties are. Usually when we thing of "Nothing" we are looking across a room and think that the space between our eyes and the objects that we see is "Nothing". In reality we are looking through an awful lot of something, such as various gases, water vapor, dust, all kinds of atoms and sub-atomic particles. In a void of true "Nothing" there is none of that. But at some point the quantum foam produces sub-atomic particles. Over time those sub-atomic particles evolve into celestial hydrogen atoms, which produces stars that cook up new and heavier elements. So everything that we are aware of today is simply a transitional form. The evolutionary process is continuous. Who knows what will exist eons from now?
If you have never seen this it puts everything into perspective.
The Scale of the Universe 2
http://htwins.net/scale2/
Diotrephes ,
Then,do you accept that god(if he exists) could create something from nothing?
I see!
i am a scientist studying the universe.^^
"Nothing" can be defined ,
nothing is an entity or thing which has no distinguishable (in priciple,not by the limited human ability)
parts in any
physical properties(ie,time,space,mind,size,sound,shape,color,etc.)
in other words,nothing has no properties.
Among existing things,there is not a single thing which has no property whatsoever.
for example,space has the distinguishable parts;say here,there etc.
therefore,an empty space is not nothing.
time;time is the same;yesterday,july,etc.
If the universe has positive energy,say 10^100,in addition,it has negative energy of -10^100
the sum of both the energy amounts to zero.but in this case,the universe has two prooperties, + and -.
moreover,the energy of 10^100 or -10^100 can be divided into the smaller energy.so the universe
is not nothing even if
its total energy is equal to zero.
In short,
A:1+1=2(or 2+3=5,12+9=21...etc)
B:something can not be created from nothing.
the two propositions A andB are the same.
if B can be wrong,A also can be wrong,vice versa.
UV teM,
The problem is that we always thing in the terms of something instead of nothing. It's hard to visualize when nothing becomes something. Take quantum foam for instance. It's supposedly made of strings but we have no idea what those strings are made of since elemental particles and atoms don't exist at that stage of cosmic evolution. There are several huge voids in space that are skimpy on matter. Those voids might be the remnants of nothing that is in the process of creating something.
https://www.space.com/33795-cosmic-voids-fill-in-blanks-universe-mysteri...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/11550868/Giant-mysterious-...
Don't make the mistake and think that everything has been created. Creation is a continuous process.
It's the perfect con, mykcob4. Know why there isn't a queue of people at the church waiting to tell the church leaders that it's all a lie?
Because they are dead.
Assuming that Jesus existed (and that's a big assumption) and was crucified, we can't be sure that he actually died. A strong young man of around 30 would take 2-3 days to die from crucifixion. The gospels say Jesus was taken down after a few hours, which means he was almost certainly still alive. It was a case of resuscitation, not resurrection. Some miracle.
Algebe
If Yeshua was crucified with rusty nails and stabbed in his torso with a dirty spear and survived he had one hell of an immunity system.
Are incorrupt bodies (with no preservatives) good enough proof to have moral certainty in God/something supernatural?
@Dumb Ox: "Are incorrupt bodies (with no preservatives) good enough proof"
Dessicated corpses in Peru, self-mummified Japanese monks, and the Ice Man of the European Alps are all real, documented examples of incorrupt bodies with no preservatives (although some of the Japanese monks drank tea containing lacquer-like chemicals).
But so-called incorrupt bodies in Christian churches are fakes created to attract pilgrims (and their money). And why would the supreme ruler of the universe need to communicate with its creations through poorly preserved corpses? Why not bring them back to life before our eyes so they can talk to us? I guess god is too busy not existing.
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