Hi, Im a Theist that enjoys a good talk.
I enjoy talking with smart and respectfull persons with diferent beliefs.
Im a bit diferent than the average theist, so you migth learn something new as well.
Just as a note, I wont reply to any unpolite coment, so if you think im retarded just for beliving in God and you have no intención on a two ways dialogue then dont bother to write. Also english is not my first language ,I undertand it quite deeply sadly im not a writer hehe
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@mystical theist
What god do you believe in? Do you have objective evidence that your god is real?
First we will need to define God so we can be on the same page. Since is a very extensive subject and I don't know how interested you are. We can start by two ideals stated by Hegel.
It must be from him/her/it , meaning he is the cause of all causes since if God has another cause but himself he cannot be God.
It must be for him/her/it , meaning everything must be for him, since if his purpose is to create something or take care of something, that would became the main entity.
Im aware this proved nothing, im just stating my beliefs. And such there could be only one God.
Dogmatic Religious want to monopolize the faith but whatever they migth believe, or even you and I. Wont change the reality.
As for the second question. I belive that there is a physical realilty which scientist clearly dominate and a metaphysical reality which only now is being explored by scientist, so if you will only hear from them you will still have to wait a bit.
In the other hand our ancestors dug quite deeply in the metaphysical realm.
This is importance for several reasons.
1- As I stated before my idea of God is the original of space and time, Thus he exist outside of his influence.
2- I dont belive that matter is the root of consciousness. Without the the 'world of ideas' as they say, the physical real would not really exist. Furthermore we can see that when one loses his consciousness for good no amount of matter can bring it back to life, all life comes from life no matter the reproduction type. And such the origin is most likely conscious and alive.
Since the ideal of God is a metaphysical one is very hard to give sensorial evidence, as such I understand if the position of those to refuse to belief or ignore, more than those who want to deny the modern science or claim their religion to supremacy.
That's why there is the mystical path were you dwell in the metaphysical realm. And as I previously stated everyday more modern scientist are aware of this reality.
Hola, Mystical Theist. Welcome to the AR. Which god or gods would you like to discuss? My wife is Pagan, so I have gained a good bit of knowledge about several different gods over the years. Happy to chat with you about them.
I'm not familiar with the term 'pagan' would you care to elaborate a bit for me.
Also what are your personal beliefs or disbeliefs. You denny the idea of God, are not sure , don't care? And why?
@Mystical Re: "I'm not familiar with the term 'pagan'..."
...*confused look*.... Seriously??? I find that difficult to believe, especially since you claim your religious belief to be "Other". But, hey, I'll play along for the moment... *shrugging shoulders*... Paganism has been around thousands of years prior to Christianity. Matter of fact, Christianity even went as far as to "borrow" many Pagan stories and rituals during its development. To this very day, millions of Christians across the globe celebrate and participate in Pagan rituals several times a year without ever being aware they are doing so. Oh, the irony... *chuckle*...
As for my personal beliefs about God, it is really simple. I do not believe in any god or gods. I grew up in a Christian household/environment, and it took me over forty years to finally escape the insidious grasp of religious indoctrination. The entire concept of worshipping some imaginary being (or anything else, for that matter) just never made sense to me, not even when I was a little kid. Now that I am finally free, my life has never been better.
Interesting. I will reach more on Paganism before I say anything about it.
Yes I hate religious indoctrination or any indoctrination for that matter. I like free thinking although makes me a bit sad I can understand why many atheist have a bitter position towards believers.
I think every person has the right to pursue their beliefs. The only think I dislike about some Atheist is when they think by default all Theist are stupid and they are so smart, they are 100% right and have figure out how everything works. I dont know they remain me of Christians, Muslims ect
If im 100% honest unless you like the mystical side of things things there are not Physical way of proving the existence or the lack of a superior intelligent being. Meaning a smart person can go either way. Funny thing you can like the occultism and the mystical side of thing and still be an Atheist but at least you will be aware that there is a really beyond your physical senses.
@ Mystical Theist
"The only think I dislike about some Atheist is when they think by default all Theist are stupid and they are so smart, they are 100% right and have figure out how everything works."
Some, myself excluded. I know many theists I respect, and a heck of a lot of very smart theists. But religion on itself relies on ignorance to survive. It fosters an environment of compliance and ignorance. And that does draw in the ignorant, swelling the ranks of theists to the point where in many communities you must appear to be a theist or you will be punished.
Why do so many atheists believe they are smart? Because an atheist can ask a question a theist struggles to comprehend. And fail to answer.
If there is a god, then please provide any proof or evidence.
If there is a God then by definition he is the source of Space, Time , Energy etc
As such he exist outside of the Physical world.
If there would be clear material prove of what lies beyond space and time. Being a God or the lack-off we wouldn't be having this conversation.
As such we can only argue in a logical level. What is more likely and why?
@Mystical Theist
Over one hundred years ago astronomers could predict with great accuracy the orbits of planets, with the sole exception of Mercury. Using the same logic that predicted Uranus and Neptune, the rational explanation that there was an undiscovered planet orbiting close to he sun. They named it Vulcan and diligently searched for this missing planet. Eventually in the early 20h century, astronomers applied the new and revised methods based on Einstein's Theory of relativity (instead of Newton's), and it was dead accurate.
I am relating this tale to illustrate that even if one comes up with a rational story, that does not make it true.
Thus, this is why atheists request proof or evidence. And since this god does interact with this known universe (it did create it), therefore there should be a method in identifying this being.
Scientists just did something equal, they managed to capture an image of something that can be defined as outside of this physical world and is invisible. And now today we can now see an image of the supermassive black hole M87*. All it took was ingenuity and determination, something the theist community seems bent on obstructing in the search for any god.
When I worked service calls for my major telecommunications provider, I used any and all rules not to inflict more bills or hardship on any customer, I was a "yes" man, seeking out how to bend my company's rules to have a satisfied customer. People can be classified in two groups, the ones who find reasons not to do anything, and ones who find any reason to get the job done. Theists fall within that first group when it comes to any search for any god.
"If there is a God then by definition he is the source of Space, Time , Energy etc"
Please prove your assertion.
"As such he exist outside of the Physical world."
If any entity can have an effect on this known universe, it is not outside of this known universe. Your logic fails.
Unicorns are defined as a horse with a single straight horn projecting from its forehead, some people believe they are real, does the definition lend validity to the belief? Making assumptions about something in argument for it's existence is a begging the question fallacy. I believe you have been told this already, yet you continue to make this irrational argument?
"begging the question is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. It is a type of circular reasoning: an argument that requires that the desired conclusion be true. This often occurs in an indirect way such that the fallacy's presence is hidden, or at least not easily apparent."
See the assumption for the very thing you're arguing for? That's a fallacy, and by the laws of logic anything that contains a known fallacy is irrational. Do you get it, you have asserted a belief that is irrational.
It's proof, and of not off, but that aside you're simply misrepresenting your position as not having proof, when in fact it has no more objective evidence to support it than is supports the existence of mermaids or unicorns. What's more, and as i have shown here again your argument are not just flawed, but are irrational as they are based on and contain known logical fallacies. Yet no theist or religious apologist who regurgitate this apologist garbage ever acknowledge this fact, quelle surprise. If you have make irrational argument and deny known scientific facts then calling on probability is something of an own goal, even if you are unable or unwilling to see it.
Well now that is something of irony overload, given you're argument are not logical, but are according the principles of logic irrational by definition, odd that apologists keep making this claim, but disingenuously refuse to actually acknowledge those principles of logic they're invoking, almost as if they haven't even a basic understanding of common logic, and are simply parroting someone else's apologetics. You're not arguing at a logical or rational level, but are in fact arguing irrationally or illogically, as I have shown yet again. Do you have the integrity to acknowledge these facts? given your record thus far, and that of all the other religious apologists, I sincerely doubt it.
Incidentally none of this disproves the existence of a deity, it just means you have zero evidence, and no rational arguments for one.
Here are some definitions that are apropos for you...
Irrational
adjective
1. not logical or reasonable.
Fallacy
noun
1. a mistaken belief, especially one based on unsound arguments.
Logical fallacy
A logical fallacy is an error in reasoning that renders an argument invalid. It is also called a fallacy, an informal logical fallacy, and an informal fallacy. All logical fallacies are nonsequiturs—arguments in which a conclusion doesn't follow logically from what preceded it.
I look forward to you dishonestly rolling past this as if nothing has been said, like a posturing pastor in a pulpit with a captive flock of enthralled attendant sheeple hanging on every word with an amen, but this is an atheist forum, where most posters set one objective standard for all beliefs. Unlike theists who set aside that standard solely for their religious beliefs.
The word "pagan" comes from the latin "paganus"", meaning 'villager' rustic; 'civilian' .This in turn comes from 'pagus' , meaning a small unit of land in a rural district.
Its meaning changed over the centuries, and seems to have been used by Christians to denote a 'heathen' or non christian. Some christians today still refer to non christians as "heathens"
The dictionary definition today is a long way from the original meaning.:
Definition of pagan
From Merriam-Webster
1 : heathen sense 1 especially : a follower of a polytheistic religion (as in ancient Rome)
2 : one who has little or no religion and who delights in sensual pleasures and material goods : an irreligious or hedonistic person
3 : neo-pagan witches, druids, goddess worshippers, and other pagans in America today— Alice Dowd
pagan adjective
Definition of pagan (Entry 2 of 2)
: of, relating to, or having the characteristics of pagans pagan customs/beliefs Reuse of Roman objects was not uncommon during the Middle Ages, although the discovery of ancient sculpture was usually a momentous event, and pagan images in particular provoked fearful responses.— Peter Scott Brown In addition to moon-rituals, wiccans celebrate pagan seasonal holidays …
Mystical theist, please define “respectful” and “unpolite”.
Is quite simple, I expect you to disagree with me but if you insult me or my ideals or I notice you don't read what I'm saying and just spam messages. Basically anything that would make possible a productive exchange of ideas.
After all I'm not here to convert you, or question your intelligence.
Mystical Theists: Let's stop the meta communication. So far, you have said nothing. WE ALL AGREE, YOU ARE DIFFERENT. Now lets get on with it.
What do you believe and why?
@ Mystical Theist
"I expect you to disagree with me but if you insult me or my ideals"
And these are terms I will not agree on. I will treat you with as much respect as you treat me. But if I believe some of your beliefs are pure bullshit, that is what I will do, call out your beliefs as crap.
I will be polite, but your ideas are definitely fair game to be attacked.
Is quite simple, I expect you to disagree with me but if you insult me or my ideals or I notice you don't read what I'm saying and just spam messages. Basically anything that would make possible a productive exchange of ideas.
After all I'm not here to convert you, or question your intelligence.
So, your ideals are nor to be insulted? What constitutes an insult? This is an important question because right now, without supplying any specifics, you hold all the cards in determining what is or is nor an insult. If, for instance, I think one of your ideals is hogwash and say so, is that an insult?
You can think whatever you want. I disagree with many of your ideals but I won't personally attack you for that. As long as you debate my argument and don't get personal we will be fine.
Also if I can see someone is not interested in a two way conversation then I don't want to waste my time. If nothing that I say is interesting for you , nobody is forcing anyone to talk.
Mystical theist, you wrote, “I disagree with many of your ideals but I won't personally attack you for that.“
Really? What are the ideals of mine with which you disagree?
Mystical Theist: We do not expect to disagree with you. No one insults you. Your ideas, on the other hand are fair game. THIS BULLSHIT YOU ARE ENGAGED IN CURRENTLY IS NOT PRODUCTIVE AND YOU ARE CERTAINLY NOT EXCHANGING ANYTHING.
RE: I'm not here to convert you, or question your intelligence.
BUT YOU SURE ARE CHALLENGING IT. WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU HERE FOR? GET ON WITH IT. 17 POSTS INTO THE THREAD AND ALL YOU HAVE SAID IS "PLEASE DON'T PICK ON ME" and "YOU ARE SPECIAL."
When your mom called you "special" did she mean it in a good way? Are you planning on starting a conversation at any point?
@Mystical Theist: How would you be different than most theists. I have not met a theist yet who was not Mystical? It would help if you posed a question or made a statement in the OP. So far all you have asserted is that you are somehow "Special." from every other theist on the site. I, for one, am extremely doubtful of that claim. You, like all other theists, will make unsubstantiated claims and back up one assertion with another assertion in a mire of never-ending bullshit. You will be called on your bullshit time and time again by the atheists on the site and you will refuse to acknowledge any point made against your position. You will engage in presupposition bullshit and basically come across as about as ignorant as any other theist on the site. Unless of course you prove me wrong and can actually produce facts and evidence supporting your version of God, a creative force, or whatever.
SO WHAT'CA GOT SALLY!
In your own website says that atheist are all different. So theist are different as well, I'm not claiming to be better or superior. Just different I could be wrong ofc but that's how I feel.
Also I'm not here to prove you wrong. Just to exchange ideas and grow as a person.
@Mystical Theist: *tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock."
Where are we now.... 9 posts into the bullshit and you have said absolutely nothing. "YES YOU ARE DIFFERENT"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHbzSif78qQ
What you mean?
If I click the small message icon, all can read my message or only the person?
I'm confused. If I click the small mail icon. Can you all read my reply or only that person.
@Mystical
Whatever you post, everybody can read.
@Mystical Theist: Everyone reads everything. You can address a specific person by placing @ before their name. I haven't seen any issues with people participating in any thread they like around here. So even if you address it to a specific person, someone else may chime in, and you will still get a reply from the person you addressed.
I will repost my first awnser.
First we will need to define God so we can be on the same page. Since is a very extensive subject and I don't know how interested you are. We can start by two ideals stated by Hegel.
It must be from him/her/it , meaning he is the cause of all causes since if God has another cause but himself he cannot be God.
It must be for him/her/it , meaning everything must be for him, since if his purpose is to create something or take care of something, that would became the main entity.
Im aware this proved nothing, im just stating my beliefs. And such there could be only one God.
Dogmatic Religious want to monopolize the faith but whatever they migth believe, or even you and I. Wont change the reality.
As for the second question. I belive that there is a physical realilty which scientist clearly dominate and a metaphysical reality which only now is being explored by scientist, so if you will only hear from them you will still have to wait a bit.
In the other hand our ancestors dug quite deeply in the metaphysical realm.
This is importance for several reasons.
1- As I stated before my idea of God is the original of space and time, Thus he exist outside of his influence.
2- I dont belive that matter is the root of consciousness. Without the the 'world of ideas' as they say, the physical real would not really exist. Furthermore we can see that when one loses his consciousness for good no amount of matter can bring it back to life, all life comes from life no matter the reproduction type. And such the origin is most likely conscious and alive.
Since the ideal of God is a metaphysical one is very hard to give sensorial evidence, as such I understand if the position of those to refuse to belief or ignore, more than those who want to deny the modern science or claim their religion to supremacy.
That's why there is the mystical paths were you invetigate the metaphysical realm. And as I previously stated everyday more modern scientist are aware of this reality.
Atheist life can be fulfilling and with purpose but being a mystic is also a valid and logical choice since there are many unawnsered questions. They way I see it, is question of priorities, tastes, choices, personalities and not necessary a question of intelligence. Both ends have people who aren't very bright.
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