Measles Epidemic

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GodlessGal's picture
If the vaccines are so

If the vaccines are so effective, why should parents that have their children immunized worry about 'anti-vaxxers'? Shouldn't it be the 'anti-vaxxers' choice? It would go against civil rights to force people to put foreign substances in their bodies if they don't want to.

The government tested anti-anthrax inoculations on my ex-husband who was a Marine. After that he began having crippling migraines. Other cases of the government forcing people in the military to put foreign substances in their bodies has led to children with birth defects and other problems.

All I am saying, my good people of the Atheist Republic, is that just like religion, it is a personal choice, whether we like it or not.

For example I loathe firearms. But because it is a civil liberty I have to live with the fact that my neighbor might have an arsenal in his house or the guy in traffic that is pissed off is carrying and could have an episode of road rage and a massacre ensue. People exercising their civil liberties and putting others at risk is side-effect of freedom. If we start curtailing and forcing people to do things that circumscribe their civil liberties then we will cease to be who we are.

Respectfully Travis, I think there are more facts to be known and one has to dig deeper than the FDA and CDC. There is so much research out there, why stop at one source (the government)? What about the doctors that don't report vaccine reactions to the VAERS? What are independent studies saying about vaccines?

I don't know enough about vaccines, and for this reason am going to make it a point to do more and more reading on the subject, until I reach a saturation level, where I can make an informed determination for myself. I am by no means an expert in vaccines or medicine at all, but I am a believer in learning as much as possible before forming my own opinion. I am ok with not knowing enough right now to not have a fully formed opinion.

Some food for thought as to what I have found in my early research about the process for making vaccines.

How vaccines are made from :

"How Are Vaccines Made?

Vaccine production is a disgusting procedure. To begin, one must first acquire the disease germ -- a toxic bacterium or a live virus. To make a "live" vaccine, the live virus must be attenuated, or weakened for human use. This is accomplished by serial passage -- passing the virus through animal tissue several times to reduce its potency. For example, measles virus is passed through chick embryos, polio virus through monkey kidneys, and the rubella virus through human diploid cells -- the dissected organs of an aborted fetus! "Killed" vaccines are "inactivated" through heat, radiation, or chemicals.

The weakened germ must then be strengthened with adjuvants (antibody boosters) and stabilizers. This is done by adding drugs, antibiotics, and toxic disinfectants to the concoction: neomycin, streptomycin, sodium chloride, sodium hydroxide, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum hydrochloride, sorbitol, hydrolized gelatin, formaldehyde, and thimerosal (a mercury derivative).

Aluminum, formaldehyde, and mercury are extremely toxic substances with a long history of documented hazardous effects. Studies confirm again and again that microscopic doses of these substances can lead to cancer, neurological damage, and death. Yet, each of them may be found in childhood vaccines.

In addition to the deliberately planned additives, unanticipated matter may contaminate the shots. For example, during serial passage of the virus through animal cells, animal RNA and DNA -- foreign genetic material -- is transferred from one host to another. Because this biological matter is injected directly into the body, researchers say it can change our genetic makeup.

Undetected animal viruses may jump the species barrier as well. This is exactly what happened during the 1950s and 1960s when millions of people were infected with polio vaccines that were contaminated with the SV-40 virus undetected in the monkey organs used to prepare the vaccines. SV-40 (Simian Virus #40 -- the 40th such virus detected since researchers began looking), is considered a powerful immunosuppressor and trigger for HIV, the name given to the AIDS virus. It is said to cause a clinical condition similar to AIDS, and has been found in brain tumors, leukemia, and other human cancers as well. Researchers consider it to be a cancer-causing virus.

What happens next, once this foul concoction -- live viruses, bacteria, toxic substances, and diseased animal matter -- is created? This witch's brew is forced into the healthy child."

CyberLN's picture
Since there is no thinktwice

Since there is no, I'll assume you are referring to .com. You may want to follow up by reading some reviews of that site and then apply critical thinking to all of it.

As to civil rights...your civil rights end where my nose begins. Personally, I apply that standard to the anti-vaxers. There are people who cannot get vaccinated because of medical contraindications. Anti-vaxers put their lives at risk. IMO, they are committing assault at a minimum.

It's my right to drink alcohol. It is not my civil right to drive while intoxicated...because I would be putting others' lives at risk. This is precisely what anti-vaxers are doing.

Shame on them! Shame on their selfishness and unfounded paranoia! Shame on them for chumping out to hysteria and BS! Shame on them for not educating themselves with facts!

Nyarlathotep's picture
A quick check shows that

A quick check shows that "Thinktwice Global Vaccine Institute" is listed on QuackWatch's "Questionable Organizations" list. A quick check of the domain registration shows it is owned by "NEW ATLANTEAN PRESS". A notorious new age book publisher, that likes to lie with statistics. They also happen to be the publisher of at least the majority of the books mentioned on the site itself. The same website recommends people attend homeopathic and chiropractic doctor (aka quacks). Here is an example of their material (their own description from Amazon):

"THIRD EYE AWAKENING: Adventures of a Clairvoyant Traveler is a compilation of out-of-body experiences by a gifted, mystic seer. Travel with the author to a private retreat hosted by great spiritual masters. Visit ancient Atlantis. Enter forbidden worlds where souls go after death. Meet the dream weavers, who influence cosmic energy and plant seeds in dreams."

GodlessGal's picture
Thanks for the background

Thanks for the background check Nyarlathotep. I have never heard of quackwatch but will definitely use it as a resource. The information presented there was just some food for thought, but I think they have some information that is worth following up on, such as how the vaccinations are made and what is in them. Does any one have a reliable source for that?

What I am trying to understand here, is why do the highly educated opt out of vaccines? What is it that is triggering this decision? What facts have they found that have led them to this conclusion? I want to know.

I also want to know if vaccines are so effective, and you have been vaccinated or vaccinated your child, why is there so much hate for anti-vaxxers? After all if you have protected yourself or your children with a vaccine you should have nothing to worry about - right?

On another note:
According to, since 2007 to date there have been 8961 vaccine preventable deaths. Approximately 1120 per year ( a significant number in my humble opinion).

According to , "Between 2000 and 2010, a total of 335,609 people died from guns -- more than the population of St. Louis, Mo. (318,069), Pittsburgh (307,484), Cincinnati, Ohio" Approximately 33,560 per year! Where is the outrage for gun control? That is almost 30 times as many people as have died from lack of vaccines - 30 times!!

"According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) 32,719 people died in traffic crashes in 2013 in the United States (latest figures available), including an estimated 10,076 people who died in drunk driving crashes, accounting for 31% of all traffic deaths that year. " ( . 10,000 people! That is another outrageous number. Almost 10x more than die from vaccines.

The point I am trying to make is that people exercise their civil liberties every day and it can be fatal to others. Apparently non-vaxxers are less fatal then people with guns and drunk drivers.

Travis Hedglin's picture
"If the vaccines are so

"If the vaccines are so effective, why should parents that have their children immunized worry about 'anti-vaxxers'?"

Because viruses mutate, and when you give them a breeding ground, you wind up with new strains that there is no vaccine for. "Anti-vaxxers" aren't just putting their own children at risk, they are putting everyone at risk by allowing these diseases the opportunity to evolve into a more resistant and deadly strain, it takes a very long time to develop new vaccines for the strains they are allowing to evolve.

"Shouldn't it be the 'anti-vaxxers' choice?"

If we were talking solely about them, yes. Unfortunately, we are not, as most of them WERE vaccinated as children(oh, the irony!). We are talking about them making an UNIFORMED or MISINFORMED decision about the health and wellbeing of another human being.

"It would go against civil rights to force people to put foreign substances in their bodies if they don't want to."

Would it go against civil rights to deny life-saving medicine to a child because of your own prejudices and ignorance?

"The government tested anti-anthrax inoculations on my ex-husband who was a Marine. After that he began having crippling migraines. Other cases of the government forcing people in the military to put foreign substances in their bodies has led to children with birth defects and other problems."

Let us talk about the children, as this is what this thread is about. Let us see what the world looked like for them before vaccinations:


Before Jonas Salk began testing a polio vaccine in 1952, an average of between 13,000 and 20,000 polio cases of paralytic poliomyelitis were reported yearly (In fact in 1952, the number of polio cases nationally peaked at 58,000). These annual epidemics often left thousands of people -- mostly children -- in braces, crutches, wheelchairs and iron lungs. The Salk and Sabin vaccines have eliminated paralytic polio in the Western hemisphere, although as many as 5,000 cases were reported last year in other parts of the world. Although the broad use of the oral live virus Sabin vaccine resulted in rare but serious cases of vaccine-induced paralytic polio until the late 1990s, new guidelines call for administering four doses of the inactivated Salk vaccine from 2 months to 4 to 6 years, eliminating the risk of vaccine-related polio.


Before the vaccine, nearly everyone in the United States got measles. There were roughly 3 million to 4 million cases each year, and an average of 450 measles-associated deaths reported annually between 1953 and 1963. More than 90 percent of people who are not immune will get measles if they are exposed to the virus. No measles cases were reported in Allegheny County in 1999 or 2000.

Hib meningitis:

Haemophilus influenzae Type b (Hib) was the most common cause of bacterial meningitis in U.S. infants and children before the vaccine was introduced in December 1987. Hib meningitis killed 600 children each year and left many survivors with deafness, seizures or mental retardation. This disease was a common, devastating illness as recently as 1990; now, most pediatricians just finishing training have never seen a case.

Pertussis (whooping cough):

Before the vaccine, nearly all children developed whooping cough. Each year, there were 150,000 to 260,000 cases reported, resulting in 9,000 deaths. Pertussis causes prolonged coughing spells that can last many weeks. These spells can make it difficult for a child to eat, drink and breathe, and younger children can easily become dehydrated. In infants, it can cause pneumonia and lead to brain damage, seizures and mental retardation. The older pertussis vaccine caused adverse side effects in some people, which prompted passage of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act in 1986 and creation of a federal vaccine injury compensation program for people harmed by the whole cell pertussis vaccine. The newer (acellular or DTaP) vaccine has been available since 1991, resulting in fewer mild and moderate adverse reactions compared with the older doses.

Despite the vaccine, there are still a number of pertussis cases reported in Allegheny County each year, with 50 cases reported in both 1998 and 1999 -- the highest in a decade. Only five cases were reported in 1990 and 10 in 1991. As of Oct. 14 this year, 45 cases have been logged, said Guillermo Cole, spokesman for the Allegheny County Health Department.

Rubella (German measles):

While rubella is usually mild in children and adults, up to 90 percent of infants born to mothers infected with rubella during the first trimester of pregnancy will develop congenital rubella syndrome, resulting in heart defects, cataracts, mental retardation and deafness. In 1964-65, before immunization, 20,000 infants were born with this syndrome. Of these, 11,600 babies were deaf, 3,500 were blind and 1,800 were mentally retarded.


Mumps was a major cause of deafness in children, occurring in approximately 1 of every 20,000 cases. Rare conditions such as swelling of the brain, nerves and spinal cord can lead to serious side effects such as paralysis, seizures and fluid in the brain. There were 212,000 cases of mumps in the United States in 1964. After immunization began in 1967, cases dropped dramatically. There were 606 cases reported in 1998. A second dose of mumps vaccine recently was added to the vaccine schedule to ensure total immunity.

Varicella (chickenpox):

Before licensing of the chickenpox vaccine in 1995, nearly all people in the United States got chickenpox by adulthood. It was responsible for 4 million cases, 11,000 hospitalizations and 100 deaths a year. Chickenpox is usually mild, but may be severe in some infants, adolescents and adults. Some people who get chickenpox suffer secondary bacterial infections, dehydration, pneumonia and problems with the central nervous system. In addition, only people who have had chickenpox in the past can get shingles, a painful nerve inflammation. There are about 300,000 cases of shingles that occur each year when inactivated chickenpox virus is activated in people who have had varicella.

Hepatitis B:

Five percent of Americans -- 1.25 million -- have been infected with hepatitis B virus. Each year, 4,000 to 5,000 of them die from related liver disease. Infants and children who become infected with hepatitis B are at highest risk of developing lifelong infection. Before the immunization program, 45,000 children became infected with hepatitis B, 12,000 of whom acquired the virus from infected mothers. The hepatitis B vaccine has been the target of a strong backlash from parents claiming the vaccine is harming more people than health officials will acknowledge. Armed with federal statistics, foes say the vaccine has caused thousands of "adverse reactions" -- including conditions similar to rheumatoid arthritis and multiple sclerosis. But federal public health officials insist the vaccine is one of the safest and most useful ever devised.


Diphtheria is caused by poison produced from the bacteria, causing heart and nerve problems. In the 1920s, diphtheria was a major cause of illness and death for U.S. children. The vaccine was developed in 1923. In 1998, only one case of diphtheria was reported in the United States.

I really need not address the rest of this post, as it is merely illustrates a very strange rationale. I am sure that, just like with anything else including food, rarely people will have terrible reactions to vaccination like any other medication. Just like the rare occasion that someone doesn't react well to an appendectomy, should parents stop allowing doctors to perform this life saving procedure? This is simply silly, if we applied that way of thinking to everything else, we would simply find it to risky to leave our bed in the morning.

GodlessGal's picture
CyberLN, can you kindly post

CyberLN, can you kindly post and cite the facts to which you allude? I am sincerely interested in knowing what they are and from where they come.

CyberLN's picture
Here is just one, of many

Here is just one, of many sites from which you can access scientific, peer-reviewed papers on the subject.

GodlessGal's picture
Thank you CyberLN. I will

Thank you CyberLN. I will check it out :-)

GodlessGal's picture
Quick question CyberLN -

Quick question CyberLN - which specific peer-reviewed studies from that website that you noted have you read that you would recommend?

Nyarlathotep's picture
Leaving an loaded gun in your

Leaving an loaded gun in your closet when you have kids at home creates risk, so does smoking, and driving recklessly. However anti-vax people are creating systemic risk. It is a direct attack on herd immunity.

Nicolas Valencia's picture
I would only allow that as

I would only allow that as soon as they can do a repeatable, observable, test that proves they don't need it and GAWD can fix it.
Sadly, I don't see anything like that.


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