Morality and childishness.

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Sheldon's picture
"

"
If you have the fruit of the spirit stated in The new testament of the bible in galatians chapter five, you would have significantly less trouble in the world,"

Sigh, evidence that claim please or it goes in the bin with the rest.

" Also Jesus teaching on the mount his beatitudes.This would fix a lot of the subjective that people are espousing."

The irony is you seem unaware that what you have just claimed is a subjective opinion, in which you deride the opinions of others as *subjective*.

"What I`m talking about is basic Christianity not the type of which the Nazis were practicing."

That's called The No True Scotsman fallacy. Here's a concise definition of that logicla fallacy you've just used...

"The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one's position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about."

Here's a link to help you understand why what you claimed is fallacious logic.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/no-true-scotsman/

The Nazis were Christians, to claim otherwise is absurdly dishonest, other than Himmler of course, who was a pagan. The German population was overwhelmingly christian though, of that there is very compelling evidence, a census was conducted in 1939 that showed over 94% of Germans identified as christian. This had been the case for centuries, and of course the Nazis virulent antisemitism stemmed from centuries European Christianity. You seem to want to both have your cake and eat it.

Tell me do you think slavery is moral? How about genocide, or ethnic cleansing? How about rape or sex trafficking female prisoners of war because they were virgins? The bible endorses and encourages all of those.

xenoview's picture
DC

DC
Can you prove your basic christianity is any diffrent than the nazi's christianity?

bigbill's picture
one thing about subjective

one thing about subjective morality is this whos morals are right? If it is all up to the individual or group then say you have two opposing view points which one is the correct one. No you definitely need objective morality here. Without it there would be chaos.

mykcob4's picture
@devout@#$%^&*!

@devout@#$%^&*!
Are you fucking kidding me? Have you even heard of history. The world is perpetual chaos. Every war is a test of whose morality is correct.
Also, NAZI morality was christian morality. Quit trying to parse the reality to fit your narrative.

Sheldon's picture
"one thing about subjective

"one thing about subjective morality is this whos morals are right? If it is all up to the individual or group then say you have two opposing view points which one is the correct one. No you definitely need objective morality here. Without it there would be chaos."

You keep asserting this, but it's just your subjective opinion, your morals are no more objective than anyone else's, Now is there any evidence likely to be forthcoming, or can we apply Hitchens's razor to your claim?

Here's a question for you, do you think you humans are capable of using their own intellect to reason whether a claim is moral or not?

algebe's picture
@devout christian: "Without

@devout christian: "Without it there would be chaos."

Don't you study history or read the news? History is chaos punctuated by brief periods of stability. And by far the biggest force for chaos is religion. The biggest force for stability is our sense of common humanity, which is the foundation for human morality formed in our families and societies.

"We're all someone's daughter
We're all someone's son
How long can we look at each other
Down the barrel of a gun?" (John Farnham, "You're the Voice")

Religion is all about the separation of the faithful from the others. It's easy to bomb, burn, shoot, and nuke the others because anyone outside of your belief system is faceless and faithless.

xenoview's picture
DC

DC
If objective morality is the only morality, please explain why so many christians behave immoral? Morality is subjective. I treat people how I want to be treated, if someone treats me bad, I don't associate with them. Morals come from your society and the laws the created to control immoral behavior.

Aposteriori unum's picture
Or consensus.

Or consensus.

bigbill's picture
If and individual lives by

If and individual lives by jesus teachings and pauls there would be alot less trouble in the world. I`m not saying or looking down on anybody who is not Christian but living the christian life does help an individual or groups pf people. The things that were described above are not real christianity at work the nazis or nuking or raping etc, which was mentioned on above posts. Religious people are of the world but not of it. we currently live and breath in this world but we don`t follow its culture. Some of the lifestyles that the world is promulgating is down right evil. We Christians want nothing to do with that.

mykcob4's picture
@devout #$%^&*!

@devout #$%^&*!
Oh, you speak for all christians do you? I dare say not, and who are you to say a person that claims to be christian isn't? The fact is that christianity has dominated the world for most of 2000 years and in all that time christianity has sowed hate, rape, prejudice, murder, and genocide among other crimes against humanity.

bigbill's picture
Well it`s very easy the right

Well it`s very easy the right kind of christian shows humility and love and forgiveness i don`t claim to speak for all christians on the earth past or present but i know what the christian life consist of and what you mentioned above here is not basic christianity. it is anything but true christianity. Jesus said you would know them by there fruits Hate, rape, prejudice, murder, and genoicide are not the traits of one who is sincerely in the heart Christian.They may state that there christian outwardly but inwardly there not. jesus loves you mykcob

mykcob4's picture
Don't be condescending to me

Don't be condescending to me @devout@#$%^&*! Saying bullshit like "jesus loves you" is just rude and insulting.

Sheldon's picture
" Jesus said you would know

" Jesus said you would know them by there fruits Hate, rape, prejudice, murder, and genoicide are not the traits of one who is sincerely in the heart Christian."

Then I ask again why your bible states your deity endorses, encourages, and commits those behaviours?

Sirkenstien's picture
You say you christians don't

You say you christians don't want anything to do with it yet all of your cultural practices are a mirror image of it. The lights, the sound, the comedy, the tugging on of heart strings. You guys just paint your manipulative practice in pretty colors. Lol

xenoview's picture
DC

DC
What country do you live in? So you don't follow the culture of your country? Do you follow the laws of your country?

Sheldon's picture
You missed my question...

You missed my question...

Here's a question for you, do you think you humans are capable of using their own intellect to reason whether a claim is moral or not?

Flamenca's picture
@Devout, follow Paul's

@Devout, follow Paul's teachings is your advice? No, thank you, I have self respect.

Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says." First letter to the Corinthians

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet." First letter to Timothy .

Chica__2009's picture
Idk, I always thought the law

Idk, I always thought the law in almost every country came from the ten commandments. But I also believe there are a lot of moral type traits and this part is to do with society.

mykcob4's picture
@Hello...!

@Hello...!
You said, "I always thought the law in almost every country came from the ten commandments." You are really naive. Laws don't come from the ten commandments (demandments)!
Laws come from society. People get elected by the people. Those representative write laws to serve the society.

Chica__2009's picture
Yes, that's true. Then what

Yes, that's true. Then what is the law and what are the ten commandments?

xenoview's picture
hello

hello
The ten commandments were laws for the people of israel to follow. Moses gave the israelites 613 commandments to follow.

mykcob4's picture
@Hello

@Hello
I gather that YOU have limited if any education. I also gather that you have never been outside the religious bubble. I guess you are in the USA.
Well, he is a history lesson for you. The USA is a SECULAR nation. Its laws are NOT based on judeo-christian ideals. Morality comes from society, not any religion or god.

LucyAustralopithecus's picture
i always found it difficult

i always found it difficult that the bible even has to be interpreted in order to make sense, surely a god would have it so that it would immediately make sense and be unable to be twisted by a human.

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