Nihilism and the presumption of morality (faith)

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xenoview's picture
I guess joesph was a drive by

I guess joesph was a drive by theist.

Grinseed's picture

Driving by in reverse too by the quality of his OP.
The sad thing is he suffered all that drug shit but ends up confidently thinking he is free of it in a belief system that suffers from all sorts of presuppositional delusions. So confident and deluded he can come here and declare us all nihilists and immoral without justification. There are some things worse than drugs.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Can you provide evidence to

Can you provide evidence to support the claim that there is indeed, 'objective morality'?

Cognostic's picture
@TheBlindWatchmaker: YES

@TheBlindWatchmaker: YES

You and I both agree to play a game of checkers. We read the rules and agree to follow them. The rules are an objective guide to the game. Violating the rules would be bad. Following the rules is good. As long as we agree on the game, the context, in which moral behavior is defined, it is objective. If we agree that "well being" is at the root of moral behavior, then behaviors all, more or less, enhance the state of human well being. Secular morality is objective, It is as objective as any other system of morality and it does not involve prayers, miracles. or divine (I don't recall the word. What god says is moral or what is moral is what god says. A moral paradox when one relies on God for morality.)
Objective morality is not any kind of problem at all. If you are not talking about well being then we are not talking about the same thing. We have not agreed on the framework for morality. Until we do, morality can not be objective. Once we do, it can certainly be defined and explored as objective.

Perhaps you are thinking of "Absolute Morality."

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture


My apologies, I should have stated that I was referring in context to the OP.

But I like your comment, it is certainly of interest to me.

I would argue that for morality to be objective, moral propositions such as "rape is bad" or "murdering is bad" would be required to be true independently of the person who is stating them.

So to be clear, it would require the statement to be true, independently from any observers.

The analogy put forward would also require honesty from both participants, disregarding human nature to win, gather, advance and so fourth.

Still, it is food for thought.

Cognostic's picture
Imagine a society where women

Imagine a society where women and men are at war,. The only way to procreate is through rape. Is rape elevated to at least a necessary evil? POINT BEING: Nothing is "Absolute." Not rape, not murder, not anything. We have been justifying horrific acts since the beginning of history and before.

I know , from my sociology class, there is a tribe where the fathers are expected to have first sex with the daughters. This also occurred in some places in Western Culture. Was it not rape? By whose standard. To have any form of morality you first need a framework. Absolute is not any sort of gauge for any kind of behavior. You are using your own social norms and extending them to the magical and non-existent absolute.

Another tribe takes all the boys who turn 8 on a camping trip with the men and they spend a weep sexually abusing the boys. This is a right of passage. When the boys come back, they are men. All the men in the tribe have gone through this ritual.

There are tribes where the boy is expected to have first sex with the mother. Where is this absolute morality and how would anyone even imagine it. It is a fantasy.

Absolute morality; that which is independently wrong, is a fanciful. Platonist ideal and non-existent in the real world. Morality is learned. It is learned from the culture around us. Were if absolute feral children would not exist. They would be magically imbued with this absolute morality. Subcultures would not exist as everyone would be following this Absolute morality. There is not, nor has there ever been anything called Absolute Morality in the real world.


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