Thy say God can not be omnipotent. In support of the argument they ask, '' can God make a stone so heavy, so that even God can not lift it?''. No matter how you answer this question it will leads to the point that Omnipotence can not exist.
In this article I will try to show you that by asking this type of tricky questions you can not disprove the possibility of an omnipotent entity (in case you do not want it to be called God).
So lets start with the question which is,'' can God make a stone so heavy, so that even God can not lift it?''.I have two answers to this question lets start by first one as it will help you to understand the second one.
My first answer is YES, God can make a stone so heavy, so that even God can not lift it. Now you will ask that then how can he be a omnipotent entity if he is not able to lift the stone?. Lets understand it this way;
A wooden stick catches fire is the capacity of wooden stick, same way at the same time not catching fire is also a capacity of steel rod.
Able to do a task is a capacity/power same way not able to do that particular task is also a capacity/power. Now lets come back to our question;
Able to make/lift the stone = a type of capacity,
Not able to make/lift the stone = also a type of capacity.
And since God has all type of capacities so I can deduce that god can make a stone so heavy so that even he cannot lift it by showing his capacity of not lifting the stone.
Now since we have understood the concept by above mentioned example I can give my second answer as well which is,
NO,'' God can not make a stone so heavy, so that even God can not lift it''
I have turned the table, now no matter how you will respond the question you can not deny the possibility of an omnipotent God.
And hence it will be hard to respond to the ontological argument.
.. (Nitin Sharma) .
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@Nitin27
"And since God has all type of capacities so I can deduce that god can make a stone so heavy so that even he cannot lift it by showing his capacity of not lifting the stone."
So your god can not lift that stone?
Please answer yes or no.
He can and he cannot as well.
YES and NO.
Let's start by you giving testable evidence your God exist.
All I am saying that you cannot disprove the existence of omnipotence.
By your standards I prove no God exists.
No evidence required.
I pray to God, God doesn't answer
I ask God to reveal itself, God remains hidden
Therefore God doesn't exist and I remain an Atheist
I have not said anything related to that. Please try to understand that I was responding to the critiques of ontological argument who denies the possibility of omnipotence on logical grounds.
@ Nitin27
"All I am saying that you cannot disprove the existence of omnipotence."
The burden of proof is yours to prove that omnipotence exists.
I do not have to prove anything, Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
"All I am saying that you cannot disprove the existence of omnipotence."
No indeed, nor the existence of invisible mermaids in the oceans. Do you generally believe claims just because they are unfalsifiable? Do watch you don't trip over that invisible unicorns to your left.
Saturday 15 September 2018 @ 08:21hrs
And all I am saying is, "I do not believe you."
Thus, it is your burden to prove it or shut up.
rmfr
@ NitinL: "No matter how you answer this question it will leads to the point that Omnipotence can not exist.: WRONG: You just have not spent enough time around theists. God can both lift and not lift the rock at the same time. He is in all things and holds all things together. He is all perspectives. Just as he limited himself when he became Jesus, he is both capable of making the rock, being the rock, lifting the rock, and not lifting the rock. This is simply the meaning of omnipotence.
Now all you have to do is prove that your God is not an imaginary being. After all, we are pretending that there is an omnipotent make believe god. You have no evidence for such a thing. The omnipotent, omnipresent, invisible god is the god of the Hindus and not your Biblical god.
Harry Potter can also make a rock so big that he can not lift it using the exact same criteria you ascribe to god. So can Peter Pan, Santa Clause, any God you care to mention, and the Blue Universe Creating Bunnies.
@ NitinL: "No matter how you answer this question it will leads to the point that Omnipotence can not exist.: WRONG: You just have not spent enough time around theists. God can both lift and not lift the rock at the same time. He is in all things and holds all things together. He is all perspectives. Just as he limited himself when he became Jesus, he is both capable of making the rock, being the rock, lifting the rock, and not lifting the rock. This is simply the meaning of omnipotence.
Thats all what I have said. rest is you are trying to straw-man me on something I did not even write.
Nitin
You can't have it both ways at the same time. You have to pick one way.
"God can both lift and not lift the rock at the same time. He is in all things and holds all things together. He is all perspectives. Just as he limited himself when he became Jesus, he is both capable of making the rock, being the rock, lifting the rock, and not lifting the rock. This is simply the meaning of omnipotence."
The lord Vishnu came to me in a dream, and told me unequivocally that you are wrong. I'm not going to argue with a deity, enjoy hell you heathen.
*******irony overload******
evidence your deity, or suck it up, and accept mine is bigger and better.
@Sheldon Re: "The lord Vishnu came to me in a dream, and told me unequivocally that you are wrong. I'm not going to argue with a deity, enjoy hell you heathen."
Feel free to believe in Vishnu if you like. Whatever floats your boat. However, I hate to be the bearer of bad new, but our beloved and mighty father Odin sent one of his ravens (I believe it was Hugin. I always get them mixed up.) to tell me to tell you that Vishnu is a wimp and that Odin could easily spank him any day. Nothing personal, dude. Just passing along the info I received from the invincible Odin.
Fnarrr, Odin, do me a favour, the lord Vishnu will shit him out, and use that pointy helmet to pick his teeth clean afterwards. I think we can all see I have logic on my side, as Vishnu is the creator and destroyer of the world. Odin ffs, funnier than magic apples, talking snakes, and my favourite, flying fucking horses.
Vishnu will have em all.. "'Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds'." nuff said...objective empirical evidence doesn't get more definitive than that, ahem!
And just read my reply to David Killens, hope it will solve your point, ''You just have not spent enough time around theists. God can both lift and not lift the rock at the same time. He is in all things and holds all things together''.
But still I accept that there is lot to learn for both of us..
And that completely ignores the response.
Ignoring anything does not make it less logical.
"God can both lift and not lift the rock at the same time. He is in all things and holds all things together''.
But still I accept that there is lot to learn for both of us.."
Indeed, why don't we start with the evidence you have for all those claims?
Do take your time won't you...
@ Nitin27
And I reject your assertion. Something either exists or it does not.
And just read my reply to you. You just have not spent enough time around atheists. A god can't be evidenced in any objective way. God is non-existent in all things, and all things hold together without the delusion there is a god. ''.
But still I accept that there is lot to learn for both of us..
Agreed, but there is still no evidence for any deity or deities.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists?
@ Nitin27
Soo... Basically, you are saying your Sky Faerie is so omnipotent that it is also impotent.
rmfr
Nitin
You can't logic God into existence. You have to pick one. Either God can't make a rock to heavy, or God can make a rock to heavy to lift. Pick one and explain why.
No you don't and I just proved it to you. REFERENCE THE HINDU VERSION OF GOD. How you define the god you are talking about is everything. You would outright lose this discussion with any alert theist.
You must go back to simply "Prove such a god exists." Harry Potter, Peter Pan, any magical being can do the same thing. THIS IS PURE IMAGINATION. Not reality.
So you believe in a god that you can't prove, have no evidence of, can't detect in reality... and that has a 'power/capability' that you cannot prove, have no evidence of and has not been observed in reality.
I'm calling it chaps!
Utter bollocks!
Doesn't that describe ALL GODS? We are in the land of make-believe and UTTER BULLOCKS.
The truth is, no matter how much a theist likes to plead, they can offer no evidence of something that acts contrary to the laws of nature.
Yep, and you don't even need to be theistic for this to be true!
Any person of any world view who makes a claim the requires the suspension of the laws of physics and/or nature, can never prove their claims, nor can they test them, demonstrate them and so on....
Hence... they are bollocks.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity is real?
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