Open Letter to Theists Who Visit Atheist Pages

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Gregory Benson's picture
Open Letter to Theists Who Visit Atheist Pages

Many religious folks who visit atheist websites labor under a false impression that we are atheists because we have not yet heard the "word". They come thinking that they can lure us into the fold. What these religious folks rarely know is that most of us were raised in religious families, saying grace at every meal and bedtime prayers. We HAVE heard the word...and it wasn't good enough.
Myself, my discomfort with religion started when I was about 8 years old and the cartoon pages we were coloring in Sunday School seemed strangely inappropriate...Noah's family and giraffes looking out the portholes of the Ark while mothers with innocent babies in their arms were drowning outside. This was God's love for his innocent children?!
As I learned more about religion, my discomfort grew over the years and I eventually told my family that I would not go to church with them any more. Mother crying "where did I fail you?" get the picture.
When I got to college one of the first classes I took was Oceanography, primarily because I wanted to know all there was to know about Noah's Flood. I looked and looked, but there was absolutely no geologic evidence for any such occurrence. Huge changes in sea level had occurred, on the order of 300 feet, but these were always very slow changes. I finally had to conclude that the flood story was just an exaggeration of a much smaller event.
I declared my major to be Geology. I took the required Astronomy/Cosmology course, and once again I saw elegant explanations that made perfect sense, while the version in Genesis was wrong on so many details that again it was very clear that at least that part of Genesis was just a myth.
When I got to my required Paleontology course, one of our assignments was to sketch the differences between clamshells that had been collected from a sequence of ancient seabottom sediment beds. What I observed with my own eyes was the slow evolution of one species into another. Evolution was real. I saw it with my own eyes, touched the fossils with my own hands. Poof, another section of Genesis blown away like dust.
By the time I graduated from college, I had been transformed from a doubter to a knower. I was not an agnostic, I was an *informed* atheist who had tested his faith against science, and science won.
Theists tend to ridicule the empirical worldview of scientists, and they need constant reminding that scientists really do know what they are talking about, and what they are saying is that religion is a set of beliefs that are wrong, irrelevant...even dangerous... to the modern world.
God is indeed dead, but the body of believers are still standing...metaphorically dead on their feet but not yet collapsed. Just a matter of time...and solid education.

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Sir Random's picture
"and solid education."

"and solid education."

That could be a problem since religion is still clunking up the educational system in several places.

(Yes that was the only thing I could find to throw a brick at. And even then it was a half-assed throw)

Good to have you here.

watchman's picture
"God is indeed dead, but the

"God is indeed dead, but the body of believers are still standing...metaphorically dead on their feet but not yet collapsed. Just a matter of time...and solid education."

But..if they're still on their feet...... then we keep swinging.

bigbill's picture
why the violence why the keep

why the violence why the keep swinging part why don`t you let people be why do you want to stop christian assembly and shut down churches, this is america and there is no government sanctioned church everybody is free to go to there place of worship.long live the bill of rights and the constitution .long live freedom of thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ThePragmatic's picture
@ sceptical christian

@ sceptical christian

The problem is that in the U.S, as well as in most other countries, religion keeps pushing to get their way into politics, education, etc. Some actively try to subvert scientific progress.

Put yourself in the place of a Hindu that is an American citizen. Would it feel as free participating in a city counsil meeting when they hold prayers from another religion? Or when speaking the pledge of allegiance, knowing how 'under god' means a god from another religion?
Or put yourself in the place of a Sikh, who wear a turban as part of your religion. Do you think it would feel as free in the U.S?

Personal belief is one thing.
Organized tax exempt religion that try to meddle in politics, education, science and laws, is quite another thing.

bigbill's picture
dear pragmatic the united

dear pragmatic the united states offers religious liberty because of the first amendment to the constitution, the pledge of allegiance i believe was taken out of the public schools for that very reason so they may now have a silent moment of any pray that the child chooses.i`m for personal belief.but tell me what happens ion the case of abortion, where our tax dollars go to fund organizations such as planned parenthood,ipersonely feel that unborn child and i call it murder.why shouldn`t some christian get involved in taking legal action against this 1973 wade was decided it made killing innocent boys and girls in the womb,you mean to tell me that it`s wrong to protest that.Also why should catholic nuns be forced to support contraception if that`s against there long held church teachings.But you see the catholic church always show the american flag we despite these decisions still fell that its a land of liberty.

ThePragmatic's picture
@ skeptic christian

@ skeptic christian

The fight about the pledge of allegiance is still a dispute, so is "in god we trust" on the money, prayers at public meetings, the ten commandments at courts, etc. Many Christians fight to push this agenda, just like other religions do in other countries.

Being against abortion is fine, but when you speak of actually wanting to stop that "travesty", such decisions should be based on non-religious opinions. Otherwise another religion might make completely different judgements. Or would you still think it's correct if another religion become a majority and decide that abortion is okay until the baby is born?

- "Also why should catholic nuns be forced to support contraception if that`s against there long held church teachings."

Because of the AIDS epidemic, because of the Zika virus, because of thousands of unwanted pregnancies. This causes needless suffering and death for millions of people.

mykcob4's picture
1) Tax dollars don't go for

1) Tax dollars don't go for abortions and never have. That is a lie posed by conservatives that want to shut down Planned Parenthood. The tax dollars go for other medical procedures and assistance.
2) The pledge of allegiance was removed from public school because "under god" was added to the pledge in 1923 and constitutes establishment of a religion, forbidden by the 1st Amendment of the U.S.Constitution.
Silent prayer is also an establishment of a religion and is also in violation of the Constitution.
3) Roe vs. Wade was and is about a women's rights. You and no one else has a right to dictate to an individual against their will. The law says that abortion isn't murder any more than wearing a condom is murder.
Funny how you invoke the First Amendment, since it is the exact Amendment that you want to violate.

bigbill's picture
abortion is murder the famous

abortion is murder the famous abortion doctor bernard nathason gave up doing many abortions just look at the film silent scream the fetus is wincing in pain when the procedure is started what else would you call it.shouldn`t someone speak up for the murder of the comparing wearing a condom with abortion is ludicrous don`t you have feelings at alhow would you like it if you were aborted savagely by a so called doctor who took an oath to preserve life.what your saying is like a nazi .

CyberLN's picture
You obviously know very

You obviously know very little about this medical procedure, biology, pregnancy, the right to privacy (Roe v Wade), the legal definition of murder, how to tell propaganda when you see/hear it, what savagery actually is, and a number of other subjects about the human condition.

bigbill's picture
you know damn well its murder

you know damn well its murder and should be outlawed,don`t givee me this biology nonsence and a womens rights how about the p[artner does he have any rights at all? how about the guilt these women feel after the procedure as for funding where do you suppose medicaid and medicare come from or are you ignorant,most women use medicaid to pay for the procedure and that comes from tax payers like myself paying for this travesty.murder is when you take a life and that`s exactly whats going on here.

charvakheresy's picture
@ skeptical christian - Are

@ skeptical christian - Are you a Vegetarian or Non Vegetarian

If you say;

1. Non vegetarian - How can you be so inhumane. Murdering those poor sweet animals. Don't give me this food crap. You can always eat vegetarian. I think all nations should become vegetarian as a national strategy. No more massacre of Turkeys and Cows and chickens or even fish. No Hunting for wild game.

2. Vegetarian - You must be a monster. How can you grow and murder living creatures like plants for what? for food! poor defenceless plants. cultivated inhumanely and then buttered for food. Why don't you become a vegan or better still eat plankton.

Now you have gone on and on about Humanity and the murder of foetuses but in reality that is not your concern at all. Your drive is religious not humanitarian as if it was humanitarian you would realise that the rights of the human living in our world supersede that which is still to be born.

1. There are plenty of women who need abortions for Medical reasons - placenta prevue, unhealthy women, women with comorbidities
2. There are women who need abortions for humanitarian reasons - women raped
3. There are women who need abortions for social reasons - They cannot afford to have another child. The development of the family and the child is hindered by the additional strain of supporting an individual.
4. There are women who need abortions for medical conditions of the child - cerebral places, anencephaly, trisomy 21, 18 13 etc
5. There are women who need abortions as they are too young to be mothers - Young pregnancies puts a strain on the life of the woman her family and her child resulting in more poverty and delayed development of the child.
6. There are women who need abortions because they are not ready mentally to be mothers - YES IT IS THEIR CHOICE, NOT YOURS AND NOT YOUR RELIGIONS.

You have very easily ignored so many lives for one life thats survival you cannot assure. You are not privy to the circumstance of the individual and you are not of a right mind enough to judge the validity of their reason. That is their prerogative and their decision to make. NOT YOURS.

Let me put it this way. If you want to chose for them what is their right to their biology then they have the right to dictate what your religion should be. DO NOT BE SO HASTY SO AS TO DENY A PERSON THE RIGHT TO THEIR BIOLOGY. IT IS THEIRS NOT YOURS AND NOT YOUR RELIGION'S.

Finally The only reason you have to appose planned parent hood is because your religion says so. Can you say for certain that by banning planned parenthood you can prevent all maternal mortality (all lives lost of women due to pregnancy or labour.)
Can you assure us that no woman will be raped in the world.

It is easy to be hypocritical and talk about life when you aren't willing to put yours on the line. if it were your life on the line and you had to chose your life, family or a new baby you would get an abortion without blinking an eyelid.

Harry33Truman's picture
Actually if you read the

Actually if you read the declaration of independence and other works made by the founding fathers, most of which were deists, you will find that by "separation of church and state," they meant that you are free to practice whatever religion you want as long as you aren't violating others liberties. And NOT a complete abolishment of the word "G-d" and anything associated in any government kind of anything.

1. Planned Parenthood was founded by someone who said flat out that she wanted to kill off the black race. Also I think that they do spend about 2 or 3% of their funding on birth control education, some of which goes toward abortions. Either way the government should not be funding private corporations.

2. So we should get rid of the declaration of independence since it says "endowed by their creator," since this is a violation of separation of church and state? Referencing G-d in a pledge which is entirely customary and not mandatory is not the same as establishing a state religion.

3. I have no right to murder you do I? And that isn't a civil rights violation, how is this?

algebe's picture

"why the violence why the keep swinging part"

I think he was speaking metaphorically. When did you last hear of atheist mobs attacking Christians or bombing churches? Never. When did you last hear of religious lunatics bombing, stabbing, killing people? Every night on the news.

bigbill's picture
you would just love it if you

you would just love it if you can take away our basic rights as christians your madman david silverman is a real nazi as for the violence it hasn`t come to that but mark my words it soon will.the muslims are fanatics islam is a religion of violence muhammed was a warrior they are killing christians and you and the media like it your depraved my friend.

chimp3's picture
It is natural to the

It is natural to the Christian to play the victim. Be Christ-like and follow his example as sheep to the slaughter. Unfortunately human nature reinserts itself in the minds of Christians and their victim persona gives way to the Defender of the Faith persona. Then the trouble begins. At least historically.

bigbill's picture
hey chimp leave us

hey chimp leave us christians alone we will defend our constitutional rights to assemble and practice our faith and we will call a spade a spade we will not hide behind some veneer following of humanism ,secularism atheism.the world is going to hell yes i am a defender of a proud heritage i just love it when people get converted i love when catholics march for life every january and i look forward one day when roe vs wade will be over turned.

chimp3's picture
The Catholic Church can claim

The Catholic Church can claim the honor of being one of the most bloody violent institutions in history. Thankfully we may yet see its demise due too its own hypocracy and decadence.

bigbill's picture
you go on thinking that way i

you go on thinking that way i`m proud of being a catholic and it will survive the onslaught from you 5% atheist my church is packed every sunday people are getting baptized the hungry are being fed the children are getting educated the adults are enrolled in biblical studies people are getting married man and women no my friend you keep on wishing it will never come to fruition.

ThePragmatic's picture
@ skeptical christian

@ skeptical christian

I find it fascinating that you skip over my questions and go straight for the throat of the first person who mentions abortion in a way you disagree with, followed by playing the victim card.
If you actually feel comfortable about your faith and the Catholic Church, why the aggression? You're the one convinced that you will go to heaven and we will go to hell, so I would expect you to be calm, confident and peaceful.
And if you actually feel comfortable about your faith, you should have no problems asking questions about your beliefs.

algebe's picture
@skeptical christian

@skeptical christian

"leave us christians alone"

If the Catholic church would drop it's ridiculous phobia of contraception, perhaps there'd be a lot fewer abortions, as well as a lot less AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases. Monty Python's "Every Sperm is Sacred" skit didn't cover half the harm that you narrow-minded hypocrites cause. Catholics should get their minds off women's wombs and concern themselves more with what their dirty priests are doing.

I respect women's right to control what happens in their own bodies, but I worry about abortion because of the risks involved, even with qualified physicians. Contraception is far better, but you Christians oppose even that. If you Christians get your way on abortion, there'll be a return to back-street abortionists. Women will die from injuries and infections. Haven't you inflicted enough harm and pain yet, Christian?

You're all full of love and concern about fetuses, Christian, but where are you when women in poor families are struggling to feed yet another hungry mouth, when rape victims find themselves carrying the offspring of their attackers? Leave us alone? Really? Understand this, Christian: You are not the victim. You're part of the biggest evil in human history.

chimp3's picture
skeptical christian : "hey

skeptical christian : "hey chimp leave us christians alone"

Haha! Until you voluntarily started reading and posting at Atheist Republic you never heard of me. You come to the DEBATE forum and get your fruit of the looms twisted and play the victim card. Laughable.

Did you know that many, many christians (such as pentecostals) do not consider catholics christian? Does the catholic church recognize the authority of baptist and pentecostal churches? Or do they still consider themselves the only show on the road?

watchman's picture


"why the violence .."....

Well its actually hypothetical know...a bit like "fight the good fight"...sort of thing......

the point I was making was that as long as self opinionated ,self appointed theist evangelists keep promulgating untruths , misdirections and down right fabrications. then it is down to us (Atheists) to combat the miasma of lies.

I'm not ,you'll note, advocating calling house to house...incomoding people on the streets ...nor crashing christian,jewish or muslim websites...... no that is not the way Atheists behave...we do not push our unwanted agenda on the unwilling....

However ....we will defend our space.....from any marauding theists.......... ...and're here....uninvited.......unrequired....complete with unsubstantiated ,unfounded pre-supposed....not to mention false pre-conceptions.

"why do you want to stop christian assembly and shut down churches" who says we do..? you have evidence..?

"this is america and there is no government sanctioned church everybody is free to go to there place of worship."..... nope
wrong again....this is Atheist Republic.....

We are a global grouping......I'm in the UK...others are in Europe ,Scandinavia , Saudi Arabia ,India ,Pakistan , Bangladesh ,Kuwait ,Canada and many more locations....We have many and varied reasons to campaign against religions....and you have no right to consider yourselves above investigation ,examination .or above critisism. are entitled to your freedom of thought....just as we are all entitled to live without the dubious benefits of your thoughts...just keep your thoughts to your selves.

And have freedom of speech......but so do if you don't want your "quaint" views challenged then you might want to consider keeping discussion of them within your churches ,temples ,synagogues and mosques.....

Pitar's picture
That's cool. One man's

That's cool. One man's "freedom of thought", though, is another man's belly laugh and he's going to get vocal about it. Deal with it. I don't put up much resistance to the theist's position. It doesn't make sense, when man has no purpose. Without purpose to logically continue to exist killing himself off for any old reason at all - religious wars, turf wars - is of no consequence. So, dream on McDuff and continue to believe what you will. If you were well-read on the historicity of the biblical story you might be in this thread promoting it. But, I doubt a person who can't be bothered with basic grammar can work up the effort to read the evidential antithesis of the bible, also known as the archeological record, with its evidence that the bible is a sham.

Dave Matson's picture
Greg B,

Greg B,

Welcome indeed! A geologist is a good man to have on board. What a fascinating and useful subject!

bigbill's picture
you mention evolution well

you mention evolution well then do you have an explanation for the cambrian fossil record where fossils abruptly came from the ocean for noah it says in the biblical account that the world was the canaanites in the old testament there was a form of evil in the land it is surprising that only the people who believed in god for christianity jesus said he is always with humanity even to the end of the age he is alpha and omega the beginning and the end and he will build his church and the gates of hell will not over take it.god by far is the best explanation for humanity, as the saying goes a bunch of philosphers and scientist were climbing a mountain and when they finally reached the top they found a bunch of theologians my scientific friend science does not have the answers for humanity thay may explain how but not why.

chimp3's picture
skeptical christian : "you

skeptical christian : "you mention evolution well then do you have an explanation for the cambrian fossil record where fossils abruptly came from the ocean floor."

That is one of the most scientifically ignorant things I have heard in a while. Please ,do move that topic to a new thread and let's talk.

Nyarlathotep's picture
skeptical christian - the

skeptical christian - the cambrian fossil record where fossils abruptly came from the ocean floor

Don't forget this 'abrupt' event took more than 20 million years; more than 3000 times longer than the bible tells says life has existed.

Dave Matson's picture
Is there a why (as in purpose

Is there a why (as in purpose)? Maybe that should be your first question. Are you claiming that the Cambrian fossil record contradicts biological evolution? Maybe you should carefully make your case on a new thread so that we can know what you are talking about. Chimp3 seems willing to set you straight on the matter. While you are at it, you might explain the evolutionary order of fossils in undisturbed sedimentary rock--the geological record. Doesn't it strike you as odd that there was no grass in the world in the days of the early dinosaurs? No flowering plants of any kind in the Carboniferous?

bigbill's picture
all that i`m saying chimp3 is

all that i`m saying chimp3 is that darwin was mystified about the cambrian explosion read what he has to say the discovery institute has put out a video called darwins dilemma it talks in quite detail about the fossils that came inyo existence in british columbia and china a canadian excavated many fossils and saw no earlier life fossils that are currently can you explain this away if the experts can`t.when you lok at consciousness and the gene and the cell you can only come away with an intelligence that is so hugh that it mystifies humanity there is just no naturalistic explanation for this.

That one guy's picture
There are endless amounts of

There are endless amounts of explanations you can come up with for as to how and why things are. So long as you have imagination you can dream up anything. Also you failed to mention there was nothing even remotely human or humanoid for in the Cambrian period. Noah and the ark. There were people. The world was filled. That is a lot of dead bodies to never fossilize. Especially considering flooding would cause mud flows that would be ideal for trapping the skeletons of the sinners and fossilizing them forever.


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