Please Help me here.

10 posts / 0 new
Last post
abdrauf786's picture
Please Help me here.

Okay people so after all the comments i've read for my previous posts i've decided to search for answers , first of all sorry for all the swearings i said .
Please show some kindness and help me here , given down are few things that boggles my mind :

1) So the concept of God or religion was introduced by man , okay BUT WHY DID HE CREATED IT ?

2) so non-believers should have been there from the beginning of religion , IS THERE SOME CONTEMPORARY ATHEIST SOURCES OF TEXTS TO PROVE THAT RELIGION IS MAN MADE ?

3) the first ABRAHAMIC RELIGION was JUDAISM , so why did there rise CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM ?

4) There are many MIRACLES mentioned in all holy books like Torah,Bible and Quran . IS THERE SOME CONTEMPORARY ATHEIST TEXTS TO SHOW THAT ALL THESE MIRACLES WERE FAKE ?

5) I dont know much about Judaism or Torah but i know little about CHRISTIANITY and BIBLE ,and i heard this biblical story of CHRIST turning WATER TO WINE . and as the bible and other texts say there were many witness there . Can you explain this ?

6) During the time of muhammed too there were non theists ,but IS THERE ANY CONTEMPORARY TEXTS SAYING THAT MUHAMMED WAS FRAUD ?

7) I saw an article Criticizing Mohammed that he had TEMPORAL LOBE EPILEPSY , And they have found symptoms from hadiths for confirming this and Saw many other articles saying he was a FRAUD . Only one of this things can be true. Either he had a TLE and believed that he was really communicating with god (in that case he wont be makeing up verses for his own benefit) or He was a FRAUD (In that case his punctuality in PRAYER TIMES AND FASTING cant be explained). What is your thought on this ?

8) I saw one other group saying that Muhammed never existed , instead it was a group of people(who claimed to be his followers) , If that is the case how could there be A TOMB, HIS RELICS , AND MENTIONING OF MOHAMMED IN NON MUSLIMS TEXTS (LIKE THEOPHANES ) ?

9) I saw several scholars (like yasir qadi) supporting EVOLUTION , but saying that ADAM WAS THE FIRST HOMOSAPIEN ,what is your view on this ?

10) WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE (INCLUDING ATHEISTS,SCIENTISTS ) CONVERTING TO ISLAM ?

Please Answer me and refer to any article that will help me .

Subscription Note: 

Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.

Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.

chimp3's picture
1 : No one knows why

1 : No one knows why
3 : For the same reason there is Shiites and Sunnis. People argue and fight over stupid interpretations of what is nonsense in the first place.
5 : Yes , the bible says there were many witnesses to the wedding party where Jesus turned water into wine.
10: I do not understand why any one would volunteer to be a slave.

Going to work. That is all the fish in a barrel I have time to shoot today.

Tracy245's picture
1) So the concept of God or

1) So the concept of God or religion was introduced by man , okay BUT WHY DID HE CREATED IT ?

Religion was created by man to explain the unexplainable. This is quite a good article which explains how supernatural beliefs evolved. http://www.livescience.com/52364-origins-supernatural-relgious-beliefs.html

The religions we have today, are really just an amalgamation of various beliefs and stories that have changed over time.

2) so non-believers should have been there from the beginning of religion , IS THERE SOME CONTEMPORARY ATHEIST SOURCES OF TEXTS TO PROVE THAT RELIGION IS MAN MADE ?

See above, and also look at the glaring contradictions and dubious morality within religious texts and teachings. Look at the quran for example, as you're a muslim. Wife beating, slavery, marrying children and killing non-believers - halal, eating pork - haram. Does this sound like something a super intelligent, supreme all knowing, loving being would teach? The most glaring contradiction exists between free will and pre-destination in Islam. The concept of Qadr, vs man having free will, are not compatible, you either have free will or you dont. I dont normally like pages like this, but this is pretty comprehensive list of errors contained in the quran

http://1000mistakes.com/1000mistakes/index.php?Page=002_008_001_001

If the quran was divine in origin, there would be no errors.

3) the first ABRAHAMIC RELIGION was JUDAISM , so why did there rise CHRISTIANITY AND ISLAM ?

Basically due to self proclaimed "prophets" jumping on the bandwagon.

4) There are many MIRACLES mentioned in all holy books like Torah,Bible and Quran . IS THERE SOME CONTEMPORARY ATHEIST TEXTS TO SHOW THAT ALL THESE MIRACLES WERE FAKE ?

There is no evidence for miracles, and most of the miracles contained in holy books are just stories and myths.

www.1000mistakes.com/1000false-proofs-claims/miracles.html

5) I dont know much about Judaism or Torah but i know little about CHRISTIANITY and BIBLE ,and i heard this biblical story of CHRIST turning WATER TO WINE . and as the bible and other texts say there were many witness there . Can you explain this ?

Again, just stories, no evidence for any of it.

6) During the time of muhammed too there were non theists ,but IS THERE ANY CONTEMPORARY TEXTS SAYING THAT MUHAMMED WAS FRAUD ?

There are plenty.There are also just as many saying he wasnt.

7) I saw an article Criticizing Mohammed that he had TEMPORAL LOBE EPILEPSY , And they have found symptoms from hadiths for confirming this and Saw many other articles saying he was a FRAUD . Only one of this things can be true. Either he had a TLE and believed that he was really communicating with god (in that case he wont be makeing up verses for his own benefit) or He was a FRAUD (In that case his punctuality in PRAYER TIMES AND FASTING cant be explained). What is your thought on this ?

He may have had epilepsy, or some kind of mental illness that made him hear voices, that is more logical and more likely than talking to an angel! Muslim prayer times, and fasting and Eid are all carried over from Arab paganism.

8) I saw one other group saying that Muhammed never existed , instead it was a group of people(who claimed to be his followers) , If that is the case how could there be A TOMB, HIS RELICS , AND MENTIONING OF MOHAMMED IN NON MUSLIMS TEXTS (LIKE THEOPHANES ) ?

Whether he existed or not, really isnt the issue. The issue is the veracity of Islamic scripture, and whether it is of divine origin, which it clearly isn't.

9) I saw several scholars (like yasir qadi) supporting EVOLUTION , but saying that ADAM WAS THE FIRST HOMOSAPIEN ,what is your view on this ?

LOL, Adam never existed, the creation story is just that, a story.

10) WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE (INCLUDING ATHEISTS,SCIENTISTS ) CONVERTING TO ISLAM ?

There isnt, its propaganda. There are many more people leaving Islam than converting. You only have to look at the growth of the ex-Muslim movement. Most converts leave Islam within 3 years anyway.

Rick Kavooras's picture
1. Generally speaking man is

1. Generally speaking man is afraid of his own mortality
2. What contemporary time are you referring to? “Atheist sources” consider science books.
3. What chimp3 said
4. “CONTEMPORARY ATHEIST TEXTS” makes no sense. There is no contemporary literature (from authors of time of jesus) that even mentions jesus either.
5. Yea it’s the bible, how can I explain what was made up?
6. See 4
7. Don’t have any thought on this, who cares there is no evidence for any of this its speculation.
8. Even if he did exist, there have been many false profits
9. How would he know that? I don’t believe anyone can KNOW that. Prove it.
10. I don’t believe that’s true. I do believe atheists are one of the fastest growing minorities in the world.

Abdul I have noticed you on this site a lot lately, I am beginning to think that you must be questioning you own faith, I really hope so. I think this is how most of us started, by asking questions. It will be OK just let it go Abdul.

CyberLN's picture
Abdul, you have all this

Abdul, you have all this debate stuff backward. You make extraordinary claims. A person who makes extraordinary claims needs to bring extraordinary evidence to the table to support those claims. Hint here...your books are not that evidence.

Instead of providing proof (real proof, not mere words) to back up your claims, you ask skeptics, those who are saying they do not believe you, to provide proof for their skepticism.

If you want to be taken seriously, it just doesn't work that way.

If I were to tell you there is an elf living in a sauce pan in my kitchen, you would be right to say, "prove it by showing me the elf in the pan." That's all any skeptic is doing here but you are, in effect, doing what I would be if I said, "prove there is no elf, and you can't touch my sauce pan to do so."

Nyarlathotep's picture
1) So the concept of God or

1) So the concept of God or religion was introduced by man , okay BUT WHY DID HE CREATED IT ?

There were religions that came before the Judism/Christanty/Islam family that I'm sure you would agree were created by man. There were religions that have come since that family that I'm sure you would agree were created by man. People have been making religions you think are fake throughout recorded history.

This of course don't not prove that Islam is fake, but I think it goes a long way toward destroying your argument that "people wouldn't just make up fake religions" since fake religions are made all the time! Of course your question was why would people make fake religions, and I don't have an answer for that but they clearly do make them!

You must have known all this before I posted it, but you made the arguement anyway. Can you not see what religion has done to your thought process?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9) I saw several scholars (like yasir qadi) supporting EVOLUTION , but saying that ADAM WAS THE FIRST HOMOSAPIEN ,what is your view on this ?

Not two day ago you were trashing on evolution; now you are using it to argue for Islam? Can you not see what religion has done to your thought process?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10) WHY ARE SO MANY PEOPLE (INCLUDING ATHEISTS,SCIENTISTS ) CONVERTING TO ISLAM ?

This argument takes the form:
Since more people are converting to X then anything else, therefore: X must be true.

At one point in time Hinduism was the fastest growing religion. Did that make Hinduism true? No.

At one point in time Christianity was the fasting growing religion. Did that make Christianity true? No.

At one point in time Islam was the fasting growing religion. Did the make Islam true?

Again, you must have known all this before I posted it, but you made the arguement anyway. Can you not see what religion has done to your thought process?

ThePragmatic's picture
I like these questions. I'll

I like these questions. I'll try to find the time required to write my answers.

Too bad you're not answering any questions yourself...
I still want to know what makes you convinced that the Quran is true.

abdrauf786's picture
I am sorry for making fun of

I am sorry for making fun of you before , why i believed quran was right ? That's what i was taught to believe in my islamic school .

ThePragmatic's picture
Thank you for the apology. It

Thank you for the apology. It's no problem, no harm done. :)
EDIT: I hope I haven't been too mean or sarcastic to you at any previous point. If I have, I return the favor of apologizing for that.

I understand that Islam is what you have been taught. This (indoctrination) is how all religions spreads/keeps their flock of believers. My opinion of religious indoctrination is that it should be forbidden, especially when it comes to children. If one religion is taught to children, then all religions should be taught at the same time, along with non-belief. And scientific education should not be withheld. To question it is fine, but not withholding it.

Here are my answers to your questions.

1) Why the concept of God was created.

As already suggested by others...
Humans were ignorant and had no idea what caused all kinds of natural phenomenas. Add to that the fear of death and the unknown.

The first religions were most likely animism of different kinds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism
Then different polytheist religions, then monotheist religions.

There are many possible factors to contribute to making up religion:
- Fear of the unknown.
- Fear of death.
- Anthropomorphism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism
- A need for answers.
- Thirst for power.

Knowledge is power, even if the answers are made up. At least as long as the deception is not exposed. It would have been very easy to claim to be a medicine man, a shaman, a druid, a person who could talk to the dead and so on.

People often seem to forget that it is allowed to "not know": I don't know how the universe and time-space came to be and I don't pretend to know.
I'm content with that. I don't need be able to answer that question with anything else than "I don't know". But this option is often overlooked. People seem to feel a need to have the answer.

2) Are there any contemporary atheist sources to prove religion was man made?

Atheism is a lack of belief, it has no central dogma. Throughout history, those who have gained power through religious beliefs, have seen atheists as a problem. Even today in free countries, many atheists are reluctant to be honest about their views.

"People in the ancient world did not always believe in the gods, a new study suggests"
http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/disbelieve-it-or-not-ancient-history-...

The lack of organization among atheists, the lack of a specific dogma and the common risk of persecution are probably why there is very little contemporary sources of atheism.

3) The first Abrahamic religion was Judaism, so why did there rise Christianity and Islam?

My personal answer to that is:
Because religious faith is based on personal interpretation, two people seldom agree to the exact same interpretations. With time, this causes branches within religions giving rise to new variants, new interpretations.

(It's my understanding that this is why it is forbidden to depict Mohammed. By forbidding it, it is less risk that differences of opinion about him will arise.)

4) Miracles in the religious texts, are there any contemporary atheist text to show they were fake?

Of course not.
If I claim an angel visited me last night, can you disprove it?
If a swarm of locust swoops in and eats all the crops, and I then claim "I warned you all, do not anger my God again!", can you prove that it was not my god that caused the locust swarm?
Even with the scientific knowledge we have today, we can't disprove such things. Just like it's impossible to disprove magic Fairies or Leprechauns.

It's also worthy to note that there is absolutely no evidence FOR any of there miracles either.

5) Explain Christ turning water to wine.

Probably just a story, or a "illusionist" trick to fool gullible people. Other than that, it can't be explained any more than any other "miracles".

6) Are there any contemporary non-theist text to show Mohammed was a fraud?

I wouldn't know. But my guess it that most people who claimed he was a fraud were theists, within other religions.

7) Mohammed, TLE or a fraud.

I wouldn't know. Either way is possible.

8) Claims that Muhammed never existed, how could there be texts, a tomb, etc.

There are many possibilities to fake the existence of such events.

If a person were to point to a cave and say: "This is the cave that was the magical entrance to the Underworld in ancient Greek polytheism.". Now there is a cave to prove it and nobody can disprove it! If people who believe this claim, nurture and extend the myths during a thousand years. Will it then be easy to convince a believer that it is just an ordinary cave?

Personally, I find it most likely that Mohammed existed, but that all the supernatural claims have been made up or added afterwards.

9) Scholars supporting Evolution, but saying that Adam was the first homosapien, what is your view on this?

It's a common middle ground for religious people who want to make modern scientific knowledge fit into their religion. Education and discovery is an important part in progress, so to avoid getting left behind science must somehow be embraced.
It provides a scientific friendly path, without abandoning the beliefs. In the interest of progress for human kind, I think it is a far better path than denial.

10) Why are so many people converting to Islam?

I didn't know they were. Who told you that?
There are always people converting between different beliefs, and there probably always will be.

I have only had one opportunity to ask a former atheist (he claims to have been atheist), how he knew that the religion he found (Christian Baptism) was the one true religion. He tried with several answers, but couldn't manage to retrace his steps from atheism to his current faith. In the end he left this forum, without being able to answer.

This is a fascinating video clip of people giving "testimony" to their beliefs. All absolutely convinced that their religion is the true religion. Some even claim to have met their god...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJMSU8Qj6Go
This should really make most religious people think...

watchman's picture
Abdul Rauf Bin Jamal....

Abdul Rauf Bin Jamal....

It really isn't us you need to apologise to is it ? .....all of the regulars here have had much worse over the years....it is ASF you need to apologise to... will you apologise to him ? ...... or are you just posturing ?

Anyway...your point 6...

"6) Are there any contemporary non-theist text to show Mohammed was a fraud?"

No there appear to be no texts contemporary with the traditional dates of Mohammeds life..... there is however one from around 640 CE...
The "Doctrina Jacobi".....

find it in English translation here....

http://www.livius.org/men-mh/messiah/messiah_med01.html

The relevant section is ,

"'What is your opinion, my master and teacher, on this prophet who has appeared among the Saracens?'
With a mighty sigh, he replied: 'He is an impostor. Prophets don't come with sword and chariot. Truly the events of today are the works of disorder."

now the second part of your point 8........ Theophanes.... you've mentioned this a couple of times....it seems to hold some significance for you....... (can't see why.....) but here you go......

There really is no great surprise that Theophanes has a mention of Mohammed...... look at the dates....

"Theophanes undertook the continuation of his Chronicle (Χρονογραφία), during the years 810-15 "

link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophanes_the_Confessor

In the chapter named "Chronicle".

Bearing in mind the early Quran was distributed around the 690's....why is it so remarkable that a chronicler living in Constantinople between 810-815, should record some of the tale of Mohammed.

It attests only to the existence of the stories and the book.....it does not verify the tales nor the "divine" interpretations.

Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.