The Problem of "Belief"

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Nyarlathotep's picture
@A Gnostic Agnostic

@A Gnostic Agnostic
I'm highly skeptical that a 3d object can exist, than has the property than it can be rotated in such as way as to generate the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet. However it is certainly possible to generated 22 unique shapes by rotating a 3d object; so I'm only 99% sure you are full of shit. I asked for the angles so I can try it; if it works that would be really interesting, and if it doesn't work I can be 100% sure what you are telling us is bunk.

Cognostic's picture
@Nyarlathotep: I had an old

@Nyarlathotep: I had an old brother ball typewriter that could type all 24 letters of the English language. It sat on a little stick inside the machine. Just goes to show you that amazing things are possible even if you are sitting on a stick.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Cognostic - I had an old

Cognostic - I had an old brother ball typewriter that could type all [the] letters of the English language.

Right, that was actually one of the first things I thought about! It actually doesn't work, because if you rotate the ball to say where the letter "A" was in front of you and look at it, you can see other letters. Of course if you only consider the impression the ball will make on a 2d surface (like when you're typing) then it work great!

I suppose if you were close enough to the ball, it would appear like a letter. But then to describe each letter you need 3 piece of information, 2 to describe the rotation (it takes 2 pieces of information to describe a 3d rotation) and one to describe the distance. But the burn is, you could do it that way with any alphabet; which would destroy the idea that there is anything special about the Hebrew language.

/e It's funny that you and I seem to have taken this claim about letters and rotations more seriously then the original claimant. Remember this, when we are inevitably accused of being close minded.

Cognostic's picture
@Nyarlathotep: I'm only

@Nyarlathotep: I'm only playing at this point but I did think of my old typewriter upon seeing what was written. I really did not give it much thought. I'm in "this whole thread is nuts" mode. Still, I did enjoy the breakdown.

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
RE: People are also known to

RE: People are also known to reject things that are bupkus.

People are also known to lazily (ie. erroneously) label whatever they do not themselves understand as 'bupkus' because they are themselves confused by it. Otherwise, they would certainly be able to indicate and elaborate specifically what renders it 'bupkus'. If there is an incomprehensibility present in, or as a result of, the body/essence, it should be argued down with reasons given (if even unsound). Otherwise, sweeping dismissals such as 'bupkus' are themselves 'bupkus' with no substance and plays on the same tactics as fascism: label it as something to be dismissed in the hopes that others do not give it consideration. How is that global supremacism problem? Oh, it's the "white supremacists" now, is it? Not the 1.5 billion "believers" in a single book as being the highest possible authority on the planet, wherein 60% of the contents instruct "believers" how to treat "unbelievers" on the basis of their "unbelief"? Oh no, do not look there at Islam, look at... the white supremacists! Cough, scapegoat, cough.

Sweeping dismissals are thus weaker than even the poorest of arguments: it should be easy to deconstruct a poor argument, no? Of course there is the excuse "not worth my time" in which case, I would question why reading/replying somehow distinctly was in the first place, especially to give a meaningless sweeping dismissal response?

By the way, the bupkus problem is the same as the problem of good and evil: one can "believe" something is bupkus that is not actually bupkus. If you 'know' something is bupkus, what indicates it as such?

I believe that sweeping dismissals are the real bupkus, and so I reject them as such. In any event, I know they are meaningless unless to the "believers" who take cues from others. The point of not "believing" is *not* taking cues from others, and allowing whatever is actually true (including rejecting what is not true) to be the authority. Whatever that is does not need help from me: I just point to it such that others can see for themselves if they look.

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
It is nice that you are

RE: I'm highly skeptical that a 3d object can exist, than has the property than it can be rotated in such as way as to generate the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet. However it is certainly possible to generated 22 unique shapes by rotating a 3d object; so I'm only 99% sure you are full of shit. I asked for the angles so I can try it; if it works that would be really interesting, and if it doesn't work I can be 100% sure what you are telling us is bunk.
___________________________

It is nice that you are skeptical (serious), but come on? I told you what you would need to do.

Find a flattened 2-d of the First Hand model (it is provided in the published book) and bend it to a replica of the First Hand model according to the instructions. Hold the model in your hand, and go through the gestures. Wherever the hand lands according to the gesture, that is the position related to a Hebrew letter and they all visually match one another. This doesn't even need a model - the website provides graphics that bear this out.

Where that 'work' ends, and my own begins, is reading the book of Genesis *not* in the Hebrew language, but according to the gestures alone and their related archetypes. Therefor I am not allowing any Hebrew-Canaanite solidified social language to identify what a letter or word is, and rather building the meaning back up from the gestures. Meru has already done this for such words as 'satan': expression of being bound in an ongoing state, which requires no "belief", only the understanding of the implications of the word.

Bound here can include being bound to "believe" something that is not true in an ongoing state. That is exactly what happens to those religious who "believe" in a false assertion(s) (esp. relating to a book such as the Torah/Bible/Qur'an as any/all authority defaults back to these) their life becomes the expression of that particular bind(s) in an ongoing state until resolved and/or... the internal imbalance of the polarity (ie. ignorance) plays out. The imbalance(s) of the internal polarity itself is the problem, and "belief" is the agency required to manufacture any/all imbalance(s) such that one is bound to "believe" evil is good, and vice versa. These "believers" are going around in circles "believing" the same thing over and over, never graduating from their own bind(s) and thus suffer themselves, but the accuser (ie. accusation itself) enters and brings "evil" into the world. This is why I caution against accusations: if they are mistaken (not all are), they might reveal a mark: that is, the accuser is the accused.

Before I myself could understand the original sin and what it was, I had to hold myself accountable with regards to it (ie. before I blame others, am I myself guilty of it?) and found that I was. So, I stopped doing it, and if one knows the first fundamental problem (ie. the problem of blaming), one can know any/all problems as a result of it, therefor not to do it.

That said, I unreservedly accuse any/all "belief"-based states (including Judaism/Christianity/Islam) of ludicrous deceptions amounting to nearly unfathomable amounts of human suffering on this planet; notably, in the past 3500 years going all the way back to the Moses/Akhunatun scandal that basically collapsed Egypt. There is a lot of deception in Judeo-Islamic accounts of history that distorts what really happened into the "Exodus" being... not real history. It is a problem that I anticipate the Jews will never apologize for, so I don't expect it, except... if they did, they would prompt an urgent need to call into question the entire Abrahamic pantheon, which I personally feel is needed at this point in time. In short: none of the books are what many "believe" them to be.

Nyarlathotep's picture
A Gnostic Agnostic - It is a

A Gnostic Agnostic - It is a problem that I anticipate the Jews will never apologize for...

Why would modern people need to apologize for non-sense written more than 50 generations ago?

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
**RE: Why would modern people

**RE: Why would modern people need to apologize for non-sense written more than 50 generations ago?
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Oh boy! Someone asked a question! Wow, there is a conscience present! Woohoo!

Gold star for actually making an inquiry.

The reason is as follows.

The Torah has 4 independent source authors J, E, P, D and a 5th R(edactor). This is contrary to the "BELIEF" that it was delivered to a man on a mountain. This "belief" has contributed to the... ahem, mess, that is on the planet. So...

...if the Jews concede that they falsified history (even granting either knowingly or unknowingly) and make a statement rendering the so-called "inspired" nature of the Torah null and void, this effectively:

i. Undermines any/all "authority" in the Bible, because every Bible opens with a (translated) Torah, and
ii. Undermines the Qur'an for the Qur'an erroneously indicating a deific "confirmation" of the delivery of the Torah. This discovery begs a focus consideration on the Qur'an and/or the history of Islam.

so if the Jews own up to their bullshitting history (ie. turning an Egyptian Akhunatun into a Hebrew savior) the Muslims have no choice but to either:

i. concede and relinquish/retract the claim(s) surrounding the Qur'an, and/or
ii. make a new claim, or
iii. keep worshiping their book and idol while waging an unnecessary "believer" vs. "unbeliever" war based on... someone the Jews just admitted was nonsense from the get-go.

i. and ii. will demand peace negotiations, whereas iii. will render Islam the aggressor, and it can be banned for being stupid and backwards.

Thank you for the question - the quality of the conscience can be determined by the quality of the question it can generate/address.

People who do not generate/address questions are not using their conscience at all. You use it to ask questions, statements come from the mind rather than the conscience.

4. Mind (immediate)
3. Identity (present life)
2. Karma (memory)
1. Conscience

Mind only works to serve the identity, not the conscience.

Nyarlathotep's picture
A Gnostic Agnostic - if the

A Gnostic Agnostic - if the Jews concede that they falsified history...

I don't think any of the authors of the bible are alive; making it difficult for them to concede anything.

Cognostic's picture
@Nyarlathotep: Not only are

@Nyarlathotep: Not only are they not alive but most of the authors of the Bible were not actually the authors of the bible and the ones that were, were lying. :-)

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
**RE: I don't think any of

**RE: I don't think any of the authors of the bible are alive; making it difficult for them to concede anything.
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It is not essential. Power does not lie in the hands of dead men: only those who exploit the dead. If the Jews concede, the Bible falls and the Qur'an thereafter. It will necessarily reveal the *real* warmongers: who is acting *against* the interest of global peace and prosperity? Islam "believes" itself to be a solution, instead of knowing it is the problem. It pathologically scapegoats/projects its own crimes against humanity onto political adversaries. Truth over authority must hold: no more ill-placed "belief".

Unfortunately, Islam intentionally manufactures "problems" it attempts to become a solution for, such as the gender identity crisis they have created to obscure that real women are disappearing. There are only two genders, and their immutability has been, is, and will be self-evident save the Islamic jihad-based disassociation psych warfare. These people are relentlessly forcing "politically correct" worldviews down your throats because they hide in and among those they themselves oppress. It is very, very cowardly how these people fight: hiding behind the weak and vulnerable like cowards.

**RE: @Nyarlathotep: Not only are they not alive but most of the authors of the Bible were not actually the authors of the bible and the ones that were, were lying. :-)
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It is practically not necessary to go beyond the first five books of "Moses". Once that is undermined, the other 61 books themselves are standing on unsound ground.

LogicFTW's picture
@Tin-Man

@Tin-Man

A gnostic agnostic wrote:

such as the gender identity crisis they have created to obscure that real women are disappearing.

Did your tinfoil hat go missing again? That is one whopper of a conspiracy theory aggie wrote up I feel a substantial tinfoil hat is required to come up with a conspiracy theory that... wildly crazy?

@A Gnostic Agnostic:
I am not sure where you personally stand on the whole gender debate. But if your definition of "gender" is there is only two of them. Then are you saying gender is a redundant definition of one of the definitions of "sex" (when in relation to male or female.) What do we call what people would like to identify as something different then what the sexual organs at birth indicate?

What about the rare individuals that are born with both male and female parts, in roughly equal amounts? How do you determine the binary answer of just male or female?

Tin-Man's picture
@Logic Re: "Did your tinfoil

@Logic Re: "Did your tinfoil hat go missing again?"

...*feeling around on top of head*.... Awww, dammit!... *looking around in confusion*... How the hell did that happen???.... AGAIN!... *grumble*... Well, guess that explains why the top of my head felt so hot out in the sun today... *wandering off to hardware store to buy another funnel*...

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Aggie

@ Aggie

So your true colours are now displaying themselves....
So the Jews are conspiring against?
Islam is conspiring against?
Trans and the entire LGBTQ community is conspiring against?

Would it be, dare I say it,...against people like you?

Would the next be on the list progeny of mixed race marriages?
Who else is plotting I wonder...do you have a list? It would simplify matters.

Cognostic's picture
All: *YAWNING - Rubbing

All: *YAWNING - Rubbing eyes* "Anything new? *Pause* "Obviously not!" *Dusty tumbleweed rolls by. The distant sound of metal squeaking against metal." *I wonder* "Is it a sign hung by a metal chain or TIN MAN chewing his lunch at the distant diner?" *Rolling over and returning to sleep. Last thoughts before nodding off.... * "Sleep is more interesting than anything A Gnostic Agnostic has yet said. Wake me when it's over."

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
**RE: Did your tinfoil hat go

**RE: Did your tinfoil hat go missing again?
_____________________

This is projection - you do not understand Islamic jihad warfare as I do. This is certain. It stupefies you, not me. I'm sorry you are triggered by it.

**RE: What do we call what people would like to identify as something different then what the sexual organs at birth indicate?
_____________________

Dysphoric - one of the tools they use is dysphoria/disassociation. Ultimately, any worldview that rejects the immutability of male-female is dysphoric and ignorant/stupid. But, again, this is used as a non-military means of warfare.

**RE: What about the rare individuals that are born with both male and female parts, in roughly equal amounts? How do you determine the binary answer of just male or female?

In reality, there are only two modalities that are not gender- and/or sex-related:

BESTOWAL (masculine/positive)
RECEIPTION (feminine/negative)
WILL (neutral)

wherein marriage is a shared 'will' between two (made whole as one). It is universal. Real, objective "morality" (esp. as it relates to good and evil) transacts through the conduit of the will:

SHARED = GOOD (consensual)
UNSHARED = EVIL (rape)

Therefor the 1:1 ratio, shared, will produce the greatest peace/harmony. Islam upsets this ratio by allowing men to take up to 4 wives (Muhammad having 9 at once). This is why Islam is a humanitarian crisis. It objectifies women (as a form of currency in the underground market) and consumes them as war spoils (as Muhammad did) and there is always Islamic jihad (always active).

They are invading the entire West right now with their jihad. It is present here on AR, as well.
____________________

**RE: o the Jews are conspiring against?
**Islam is conspiring against?
**Trans and the entire LGBTQ community is conspiring against?

It's not any conspiracy - it is warfare. It can be known and understood as tacit tactics: exploit any/all vulnerable. Look at the prisons. They recruit there.

**Would it be, dare I say it,...against people like you?

Not me personally, no.

It's more to do with scapegoating their "supremacism" onto "white people", which is racism. That whole infection sweeping is manufactured by Islam to distract from the supremacism (ie. Nazi) of Islam. WW1 and WW2 have Islamic seeds. This is not common knowledge, but I know it is true. "Belief" is a very, very powerful force.

**Would the next be on the list progeny of mixed race marriages?
**Who else is plotting I wonder...do you have a list? It would simplify matters.

"BELIEVERS" vs. "UNBELIEVERS"

everything collapses into that. You are welcome.

____________________

RE: All: *YAWNING - Rubbing eyes* "Anything new? *Pause* "Obviously not!" *Dusty tumbleweed rolls by. The distant sound of metal squeaking against metal." *I wonder* "Is it a sign hung by a metal chain or TIN MAN chewing his lunch at the distant diner?" *Rolling over and returning to sleep. Last thoughts before nodding off.... * "Sleep is more interesting than anything A Gnostic Agnostic has yet said. Wake me when it's over."

There is no cure and/or "wake up" for self-induced psychosomatic states resulting from the ignorance of 'I am'. There is only death, and the mystery is revealed then. All beings are "enlightened" upon death.

Also, please stop religiously worshiping me. It's getting a bit strange - feeling uncomfortable. Am I now the highlight of your day? Do you check here regularly for AGA posts and hope to find a flaw, somewhere?

Did you smoke a bunch of pot before trying to read it, and start projecting the resulting wavering lucidity of your own drug use on me?

Oh yes, I know. Think mirror.

Give this monkey some cymbals please. He is useless otherwise.

Cognostic's picture
@A Gnostic Agnostic: DID

@A Gnostic Agnostic: DID YOU FIND MY TINFOIL HAT? WAS IT NEXT TO THE PIG NOSE?

@RE: "You do not understand Islamic jihad warfare as I do. " I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE TRAINED WITH THE BEST.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tooBukD2rE0

@RE: RE: "What do we call what people would like to identify as something different then what the sexual organs at birth indicate?" UMMMM.... JACK, FRED, ROBERT, SALLY, CHRISTINE, HEATHER, JUNE, ALICE, HANK, AND WHATEVER OTHER NAME THEIR PARENTS GAVE THEM.

@RE: "Power does not lie in the hands of dead men:" Ummmm, LET ME GUESS. BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD?

@RE: "Ultimately, any worldview that rejects the immutability of male-female is dysphoric and ignorant/stupid." SO, GOD IS MAKING MISTAKES? WHY IS HE MAKING HOMOSEXUALS, (10% OF ALL MAMMALIAN SPECIES ARE GAY) OR INTERSEXUALS ? ARE YOU INFERRING YOUR GOD IS INCAPABLE OF MAKING UP HIS MIND? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dJduGC3HyQ
I WISH I WAS IGNORANT AND RELIGIOUS SO I COULD IGNORE THE REAL WORLD.

RE: "Trans and the entire LGBTQ community is conspiring against?It's not any conspiracy - it is warfare. It can be known and understood as tacit tactics: exploit any/all vulnerable. **** Look at the prisons. They recruit there.****
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU.

"BELIEVERS" vs. "UNBELIEVERS" everything collapses into that. BUT ENERGY IS CONSERVED. AND THEN IS COLLAPSES EVEN MORE AND FORMS A SINGULARITY. THEN WHEN THE SINGULARITY EXPANDS, WE START ALL OVER AGAIN. BUT NEXT TIME YOU CAN BE INTERSEXED SO YOU CAN LEARN WHAT IT IS LIKE.

RE: "There is no cure and/or "wake up" for self-induced psychosomatic states resulting from the ignorance of 'I am'." ON THIS POINT, I MUST BOW TO YOUR EXPERTISE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING. I SUGGEST YOU SUBMIT A PAPER TO THE APA.

RE: "Also, please stop religiously worshiping me." HOW CAN WE DO THAT WHEN YOU KEEP POSTING SUCH PROFOUND INSIGHTS. YOU, JESUS AND MUHAMMAD ARE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF MY, "PEOPLE TO WORSHIP SHOULD I GO INSANE," LIST.

RE: " Did you smoke a bunch of pot before trying to read it," NO! I SMOKED POT AFTER READING IT AND JUST BEFORE I RESPONDED SO THAT WE WOULD BE SPEAKING TO ONE ANOTHER ON THE SAME LEVEL. I AM VERY CONSIDERATE THAT WAY.

RE: Give this monkey some cymbals please. He is useless otherwise. "COOL, THEN WE CAN ALL HAVE A BIG DANCE. MY PLACE OR YOURS?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxSWVkPfVc8

Tin-Man's picture
...*speaking over PA system*.

...*speaking over PA system*... Attention! Attention, please! Will you fuckers PLEASE stop tossing around my damn hat and return it to my Inbox? I'm really getting tired of having to go the hardware store every other friggin' day to buy another funnel! Thank you! This has been a public service announcement!

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
RE: SO, GOD IS MAKING

RE: SO, GOD IS MAKING MISTAKES? WHY IS HE MAKING HOMOSEXUALS, (10% OF ALL MAMMALIAN SPECIES ARE GAY) OR INTERSEXUALS ? ARE YOU INFERRING YOUR GOD IS INCAPABLE OF MAKING UP HIS MIND? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dJduGC3HyQ
I WISH I WAS IGNORANT AND RELIGIOUS SO I COULD IGNORE THE REAL WORLD.

Whose god? As already stated:

In reality, there are only two modalities that are not gender- and/or sex-related:

BESTOWAL (masculine/positive)
RECEIPTION (feminine/negative)
WILL (neutral).

Figure 8.
Bestowal/Reception
the zero-point is the will.

1x1=1 (ad infinitum) allows:
1x1...=0 (infinity)
A folded 0 ( 0 becomes 8 ) allows:
ANY primordial dichotomous dipole (ie. good/evil, bestowal/reception)
0, 1 (solutions for 1x1)
2, 3, 5, 8, 13 etc.
_______________________

**RE: BUT ENERGY IS CONSERVED. AND THEN IS COLLAPSES EVEN MORE AND FORMS A SINGULARITY. THEN WHEN THE SINGULARITY EXPANDS, WE START ALL OVER AGAIN. BUT NEXT TIME YOU CAN BE INTERSEXED SO YOU CAN LEARN WHAT IT IS LIKE.

This only occurs if matters collapse in on themselves (ie. circumstantial). Energy is *not* conserved if it is in an unresolved state and finds its counterpart for annihilation (elwoahayim brings man to woman, original sin is born and energy remains unresolved until original sin(s) is/are reversed). The universe weighs nothing. Because there is nothing (0) there is something (1). People make something (ie. "believe" they are something) out of nothing. This is how "something" comes from "nothing".

Physical manifestation is all illusory: unreal. Only those bound to it "believe" in it.
_______________________

**RE:ON THIS POINT, I MUST BOW TO YOUR EXPERTISE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING. I SUGGEST YOU SUBMIT A PAPER TO THE APA.

Already in progress, in addition to the lab work I am doing, for which you are certainly a subject.
_______________________

RE: HOW CAN WE DO THAT WHEN YOU KEEP POSTING SUCH PROFOUND INSIGHTS. YOU, JESUS AND MUHAMMAD ARE RIGHT AT THE TOP OF MY, "PEOPLE TO WORSHIP SHOULD I GO INSANE," LIST.

I am knowing of the profound insights, but they are accessible to anyone via use (ie. discipline) of conscience, but idol worship is a problem and not a solution.

You seemed incapable of focusing on anything but me (doing better now, but still retard status). Love or hate, any kind of ad hominem attachment is idol worship and lowly.

Atheist attacks atheist for developing sound argumentation that undermines any/all "belief"-based theologies. How... inverted. I wonder why that is.
_______________________

**RE: NO! I SMOKED POT AFTER READING IT AND JUST BEFORE I RESPONDED SO THAT WE WOULD BE SPEAKING TO ONE ANOTHER ON THE SAME LEVEL. I AM VERY CONSIDERATE THAT WAY.

Please do not project your drug use on others.

I'm naturally stoned all the time - mind is like a still lake, conscience (inquirer) is like a boat. If the mind is still, the water reflects everything that is above (upside-down) for the inquirer to see.

Else: ones own turbulence upsets the stillness and distorts. I wish to encounter one whose waters are yet even more still and can actually use the conscience without being distracted by worshiping the man. Such a waste, like a finger pointing to the moon. Stop staring at the finger and look higher.
_______________________

**RE: "COOL, THEN WE CAN ALL HAVE A BIG DANCE. MY PLACE OR YOURS?

How about in the WTD thread to let this one die? You know I asked the mods to delete it.

Mods please delete - content in here is old news and everything needed is in WTD.

Cognostic's picture
@A Gnostic Agnostic: No no

@A Gnostic Agnostic: No no no - never destroy the rants of a religious fanatic!!! Future atheists and those just beginning to drop their religious chains need to see and hear what they once sounded like.

RELIGION MADE ME TALK LIKE AN IDIOT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URr0O9aHW38&t=132s

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