Prove without a shadow of doubt that jesus existed...I dare ya!
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I'm agnostic not a Christian
there is no such thing!
Ppssstttt....myk (whispering) he's actually saying he's a deist..
its not a thing though..its just a word....
he's not a believer from the word "agnostic"he says, but he knows jesus exist anyway..so...hhmmfff
The real issue is whether you think it is acceptable to torture someone for failing to believe in the existence of Jesus. If the answer is "no", then the moral Jesus never existed.
all that you treat others with respect and gratitude no matter what they believe unless their beliefs restrict the rights of others
@ Ali christians have historically and presently disrespect anyone that does not agree with their myth. Walk a mile in my shoes and you'd understand.
The Christians are not agreed upon on simple questions such as whether John the Apostle is the same as John the Evangelist (alleged author of the gospel of John) is the same as John of Patmos (alleged author of Revelations) is the same as John the Presbyter. Many of the lesser apostles have similar issues.
In addition, the Christians are not in agreement about the later lives of the apostles including their deaths, nor their place of burial (of which there are often many), nor all the various miracles attributed to the twelve throughout history.
It does not inspire confidence that Jesus was in fact a historical figure. If we assume as a starting point for discussion that he is equivalent with John the Baptist (alleged cousin of Jesus)...that would be an assumption. But I believe that "proving" John the Baptist would be a reasonable starting point.
(a little apologetic about making several posts in succession in this thread)
Ascertaining the existence of a historical Jesus is about as meaningful to me personally as proving the existence of Joe Bloggs. It is only been a problem to society throughout history because the Christians have killed and damned those who have not believed. Of course the onus is on the Christians to not just provide undeniable evidence of the historical Jesus, but to provide undeniable proof of the divine Jesus also.
Let me see..... I think I remember how this goes.....
The Bible says he is real and the Bible is the word of God.
There are eye witnesses.
There are miracles.
Everything has a beginning and something can't come from nothing.
Pascal's Wager - If you don't believe me you will burn in hell.
Presuppositionalism - Actually you know God exists.
How did everything get designed without a designer? Ha - Gotcha.
Pleny the Younger
Paul met his brother.
People witnessed the resurrection.
If you can think of that being than which no greater can exist then it must exist.
Consciousness proves immaterial things exist, therefore god. (Just ignore the brain.)
God is just an advanced alien culture. Who else built the pyramids?
Face it, there is so much evidence for the existence of god that you have to be utterly ignorant not to see it. (Or intelligent enough to recognize a logical fallacy and simply don't believe.)
How about this approach? I will tell you right now, Jesus Christ did not walk the earth 1000s of years ago. But he might be here right now. How can I prove that? Well.. You see. I have described something to people. Which I have already sent to people. You can check all of this, it is all correct. Now, I have posted part of this on a different Atheist forum before. Within 5 minutes, people claimed I did not show them anything, which is impossible, seeing as the first video included in the playlist is 38 minutes long. Now, if you want to disprove me and my claim here, you will have to look at what I present you. All of it. Otherwise you will not know/understand what is said. That is fair right? Here it is:
Hi! So , I am going to be as clear as possible. The creator/god/jesus christ is already here. Now, some explanation that is missing from the message I will be pasting, I will add here. As you can read in the message, GOD(3 letters)=7+15+4=26(letters in the real alphabet)=2+6=8, 38. But there is only 1 master number, 11. 3+8=11. JESUS=10+5+19+21+19=74=7+4=11. So, that says with mathematics god=jesus right? Now, Jesus is depicted in blue, red and gold in proper art. Look at what happens: GOLD=7+15+12+4=38! 3+8=11! BLUE=2+12+21+5=40=4+0=4, RED=18+5+4=27=2+7=9, 49! LOGAN=12+15+7+1+14=49! You see? Was there the whole time already, people just had not figured it out. How about I explain the connection with the Epic, mentioned in video 1,2 and 3 of my playlist as well? Here we go:
As you can read in the e-mail I am sending you, my birthday is 121280, It clearly states the position in the number Pi, which is 3 and an infinite number, infinity symbol on its side is the symbol 8, as in 38, 194238.. Now, 19, Yeah, is the number I was living on, De rungraaf 19 in Eindhoven. 42, which is also mentioned in my videos, in combination with a woman named Miss K8, 42 is also mentioned in HitCHhikers' guide to the galaxy, CH, Because her name is Kateryna=8 Kremko=6 Kremko has life path 1, so her numbers are 1,8,6.. My name, is Logan=5 van=3 Engelen=7 birthday 12, 3,5,7 and 12.. 1+8+6+3+5+7+12=42.. My address, de rungraaf 19, is also in 77 numbers of phi. 77, is the number my supposed mother lived on in her life, it also 1977, when Close encounters of the 3rd kind was released, the movie, and Eindhoven, yeah, has the evoluon, a giant UFO shaped building, that is 77 meters across. The 5 notes or tones of the movie Close encounters of the 3rd kind, can be found in the number Pi, as shown in my videos. They give a reference to a place called the Epic in Tilburg, where I went to meet Kateryna and Kimberly, a friend of hers. Do you see both names start with K? Hey, did you know this yet? JESUS=10+5+19+21+19=74 7+4=11.. 11 is the only master number. Wanna see what happens when we look up those notes in the number pi? They are D E C C G.. 45337.. So, fine, here we go.. We do it in 2 iterations, as that is how I created it.. First, the first ten matches. Then eleven. You can check this yourself at:
Just remember to add 1 right? The index is from the beginning.. We are going to numerology these indexes, because if you would have looked at my videos, you would have understood, I purposely use numerology.
So, you now going complain about the reorder I do with this or what? I put it like that on purpose, because of the number 58, as the sky phenomenon in Sweden was at a ski resort with the number 58 and it was not a sun dog or sky angel or whatever else you stupid fake scientists make up about it. I did that. For christ sake. So, 10 iterations.
3 11 11 1 1 6 4 5 8 11
You see the 58? Reorder..
5 3 8 11 11 1 1 6 4 11
Now, you can not get 0 with numerology, can you understand that or what?
The address of the Epic in Tilburg is:
So, we got the 116 in there right? Hey, and the numerology value of Heuvelring, which is 4 also right? So, we got left:
538 11 11 11
Well, how about we look at it this way? Kateryna, who was there, K=11, Kimberly, who was there, K=11, I was there, Jesus=11.. But, if you split that (there are pictures in my videos proving I was there and those women as well) we get 111, 111.. 1+1+1=3=C, 1+11=12=L.. So you get the full postal code of the Epic.. If you read my E-mail, you would know, 538 is in my name chart.. How about we do 11 iterations now huh?
3 11 11 1 1 6 4 5 8 11 9
Do you see it? You do not? How about this? EPIC, E=5, P=16, I=9, C=3.. So, we remove those values:
11 11 1 4 8 11
So, here is the rest of the message. You going to look into this now or what? Would be nice you know:
Does God Exist? I have read many times, that people say Nobody has proof god exists. Now, what if I say, I have proof God exists? Would people be willing to look at what I want to explain to them/show them? It is all about, what you think the creator/god is correct? Now, lets say, the creator/god, creates an existence, actually for himself, to walk around here and interact with people, would people think that is actually possible? Now, how would he go about proving, he is actually the creator/god? Would people think, it would be possible for him to create a puzzle, a pattern, that Nobody could solve? And by solving it, proving who he really is? Do people think he would be able to do something like that? Well. There is such a puzzle/pattern. I have understood, some people have noticed some of it, but brushed it off as coincidence correct? I will start explaining it, but, if you really want to come up with a conclusion of what I am about to show you, you will have to look at all that is presented, as others, in the past, have failed to do so. The puzzle, has to do with numbers, colors, numerology and symbology. I will start at the beginning:
GOD(3 letter word)=7+15+4=26 2+6=8, 38. The 8 can be seen as the infinity symbol on its side, which is sometimes also used as the symbol for a paradox.
Are people aware of the Illuminati symbolism? It is on the dollar bill correct? It says, ‘In god we trust” right? It then says, in the seal, Novus Ordo Seclorum, which has been falsely used as New world Order, because it actually means, New order of the Ages.
The symbol is a triangle and an EYE. Triangle=3, EYE=5+25+5=8, 38.
In science, every atom is made out of protons, correct? A proton is made out of 3 Quarks(QU=17 21=83, 38 backwards) which exchange 8 gluons, 38.
The weight/mass of a proton is 938 Mev/c. 938 in alphabet is ICH. ICH comes from the old greek word ICHTHUS, in which ICH, I=Jesus, CH=Christ.
CHristianity. CHurCH. And in chuRCH, with numerology, R=18=1+8=9, so it also says 938.
In Chemistry, CH is very common.
Light takes approx 8.3 minutes to get from the sun to the earth, 38 backwards.
The moon is receding at 3.8 cm a year from the earth, 38.
The earth is the 3rd of 8 planets, 38.
DNA, when written like this, says C G A T, correct? C=3, G=7, A=1, T=20=2+0=2. Could we agree that you could see that as 3, 7, 12? This will be shown later.
Can people imagine that, the creator/god could have put ideas into peoples minds, 1000s of years ago, that would actually predict or match him? Are people here aware of many of the biblical stories?
How about this:
My supposed father was born on the 26st of August, star sign, Virgo, depicted as the Virgin.
I later in my life, moved to a place called Helmond, the Netherlands. Translated to English, that means the Mouth of Hell. A lot of people wanted to fight me, hurt me etc. in that place.
I later moved back to Eindhoven, to the Heilige Geestraat, in English that means, Holy Ghost street. It is between, the Paradijslaan, English, Paradise lane, and the Edenstraat or Edenstreet.
I eventually ended up at a workplace, getting into a big fight with some Jewish people, that did not seem to agree with what I said about the money system. They then threatened to kill me, my family and even crucify me.
Now, the word CREATOR=3+18+5+1+20+15+18=80 and of course 8+0=8, which is also infinity on its side, but 80. My birthday is the 12th of the 12th 1980. 12 is a common biblical number correct?
To make it even more interesting, the number pi, is 3 and an infinite number behind the . or , correct? Can you then see it symbolically, if you turn infinity back on its side as 38?
If you look up the number 121280, in the number pi, you will find this index: 194238. It ends in 38. It is followed by 839 or 938 backwards.
My name, seems to have a hidden element. First off, my last name, van Engelen, means ‘of Angels’ in English. Besides that:
Logan=5 letters, van=3 letters, Engelen=5+14+7+5+12+5+14=62 6+2=8. So it says 538.
Now, to make it even more interesting, I have a video series here, that explains the rest of this pattern combining people, locations, music track lyrics, CDs, the numbers pi, tau(2 times pi), phi, Fibonacci, colors, numbers, numerology, symbology etc. all into a single pattern, also showing the number 38.
I have been showing this for quite sometime and what is also interesting, is that somebody named Joseph, found it necessary to come and insult me. Later on, somebody named Matthew also thought that was somehow necessary.
I will tell you this last thing, after staying in the Netherlands, I decided to leave and go to Lloret de mar, Spain, which some people have called like Babylon. In this place, I eventually got introduced to another woman, for a cheaper place to stay, this woman's last name ended in CH. In this new place, I ended up in a room, next to another woman, also staying at that place, named Maria.
I will explain one last thing before I post the video playlist. I end up going to a place, called Epic. I show, in the videos, how the postal code, address and name are in the number pi. It also show a reference to the number 58, linking it back to me and 2 other women that I met there.
The word Epic, a user name ending in CH are visible in the following video. It also seems to have been shot in vemdalen sweden, where there is a ski resort at number 58.
I would like to add some extra details to the explanation, as I do not think people even think of this, when they watch the playlist I added here. In the first video, I mention CHarles Manson. I also mention the matrix movie, which was directed by the WaCHowski's starring Keanu CHarles Reeves as Neo.
To make it even more interesting, I will add a video, illustrating a puzzle, that links back certain band names and track titles, to the puzzles shown in the first video of the playlist. It also features a track by Deep Purple, CHasing shadows. People should know/remember Deep purple featured people like John Lord and RitCHie Blackmore.
I will also add another puzzle, that uses a track title and information, more anagrams etc.
I would also like to add that the first video of the 'Here is your proof' playlist, is part of a longer set of videos, linking more stuff together with a set of music mixes called the 3rd testament.
The 3rd testament mixes are not on soundcloud anymore, but can be found here:
I would also like to add, I "predicted" the position of a certain female DJ in the top 100 twice, in the video series. Miss K8, Kateryna Kremko. As you can see in the first video, the number 88 is clearly visible in the properties of the document I gave her. It is later referenced again, in the video 88 in the playlist.
Her position in 2016 was 88:
Her position in 2017 was 58 and 58 was mentioned in the second video, was it not?:
Lastly, I would like to add, I arrived in Lloret de mar, Spain, early this year. There was a referendum for the Independence of Catalonia. You check the vote count for independence yourself, as it ends in 38:
Oh, one last thing. I spent some time chasing this DJ, Miss K8 around. I did. She played in Switzerland, Basel. Following her there, I end up getting the number 38 again on my boarding pass and some other things, which I show in the video:
Now, are you people going to understand what I showed you here?
Well ,that is very nice. Have a look at all of that then and I hope to hear from you!
Have a nice day!
So you establish a system of adding up the digits of a number, then adding up those digits until you can't do that anymore (when you reach a single digit number). But then you immediately violate your own system when you reached 11, a 2 digit number; and arbitrarily stopped. For consistency you should have added those digits and gotten 2.
And of course you shouldn't use an equal sign like that, since 51591≠3. Perhaps use an arrow instead:
51591 → 5+1+5+9+1 → 21→ 2+1 → 3
And of course you aren't going to convince many people here with numerology; but at the very least you should be consistent, right?
Fucking numerology? Are you fucking kidding me? AND you didn't even do the math correctly! What a bunch of fucking bullshit! Try again junior!
"How about this approach?"
Thanks for that treasure trove of information. It was just what I needed to become converted and to become a true beiever.
You're not even wrong.
Try again once you're back on your medication.
Any semi-arbitrary number, if you dig into it, is gonna have some cool properties.
So what? Evil is live spelled backwards. If I manipulated numbers, I could probably "prove" that giraffes can stand on their heads.
I have twenty digits and my penis. That adds up to 21. That is the same number as a win in Blackjack and the winning number in volleyball. It's magic .... because I used to play both volleyball and Blackjack. Amazing.
You made me think of a joke but I can't write it on the forum.
Ich bin ein anumerologist!
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
to be honest I don't know if Jesus ever lived or existed but you are asking a question that can't be answered as no one who lived during that period of time is no longer here and can not answer either way you might as walk up to a tree and ask if can talk it won't answer you but that doesn't mean it can't talk maybe it sees you as a lower form that it won't waist time communicating with
1) I know what agnostic means.
2) YOU are an atheist about other gods so what's the difference?
3) It doesn't matter that no one is alive from that time. We prove things happened throughout history all the time with real proof. we don't nee people that lived from the time to be alive to confirm things.
4) Trees may well be able to communicate but since they don't have a central nervous system (a brain) nor do they have vocal cords they cannot talk. If they did communicate it wouldn't be anything like what we would consider communication and would have to be at a very low level given the fact that they don't have any method of processing data.
So don't hand me your condescending bullshit. Either prove jesus lived or not. If he lived surely there is some concrete evidence but there isn't any at all just a bible that was written after the fact and by people that are not known.
"If he lived surely there is some concrete evidence but there isn't any at all just a bible that was written after the fact and by people that are not known."
The committee that wrote the Koran mentioned Jesus 25 times. They only mentioned Mohammed four times. So based on the number of mentions it's more likely that Jesus existed rather than Mohammed. Of course that's like saying that Tarzan and the Lone Ranger & Tonto were real because they were depicted in books and movies.
The thing is that once a character has been draped in a particular persona he becomes a living being for all particular purposes, even if he's totally imaginary and everyone knows that he's imaginary. Consequently he's accepted as being real as long as his future reincarnations stay true to his original characterization.
Therefore Jesus will always be depicted as a nice guy and not as a homicidal maniac as he is in Revelation. Some people go ape shit crazy at depictions of Mohammed but he could never be depicted as a nice guy because his original characterization wasn't that of a nice guy. He was a bad guy.
"The thing is that once a character has been draped in a particular persona he becomes a living being for all particular purposes,"
The Lone Ranger is actually based on a real person. A Black lawman as a matter of fact!
jesus is an amalgamation of characters from many other cultures in the same way king Arther is.
"The Lone Ranger is actually based on a real person. A Black lawman as a matter of fact!"
Do you mean Bass Reeves?
"Bass Reeves: The Real Lone Ranger" is the title and subject of Legends and Lies: The Real West (2015).
"Bass Reeves - The Real Lone Ranger" is also the title and subject of Gunslingers (2015). Reeves is portrayed by Joseph Callender.
Popular speculation that Reeves was an inspiration for the fictional Lone Ranger may have originated from the 2006 Reeves biography. Burton wrote, "Bass Reeves is the closest real person to resemble the Lone Ranger". Reeves was never a Texas Ranger, however. Records of the creation of the Lone Ranger radio and television series show no evidence that Reeves was an influence.
Reeves figures prominently in an episode of How It's Made, in which a Bass Reeves limited-edition collectors' figurine is shown in various stages of the production process.
In "The Murder of Jesse James", a fictional episode of the television series Timeless (season one, episode 12), Bass Reeves is portrayed by Colman Domingo.
Reeves was a featured subject of the Drunk History episode "Oklahoma" in which he was portrayed by Jaleel White.
In the television series Wynonna Earp, Reeves' character appears in a season two episode titled "Everybody Knows" in which he was portrayed by Adrian Holmes.
Bass Reeves figures into the plot of “The Royal Family” episode of “Greenleaf” (2nd season)"
Did he shoot silver bullets? Did he ride a white stallion named "Silver"? Did he have a faithful Indian companion named "Tonto"? Did he wear a black mask over his eyes? Was he a white guy? If not he wasn't the Lone Ranger.
The writer of the Lone Ranger used a black mask to vaguely express that the Lone Ranger was a black man to an audience that was basically racist. Silver the silver bullets Tonto are all literary license. Bass Reeves use to leave a silver dollar to pay for the burial of the men he had to kill. that may be where the silver bullet part comes from.
"The writer of the Lone Ranger used a black mask to vaguely express that the Lone Ranger was a black man to an audience that was basically racist."
That's interesting about Bass Reeves. I had no idea that he existed. Given the racism that existed in Texas it was a miracle that he wasn't lynched.
Now, my idea is that the Paul character created the Yeshua character out of thin air in order to sell his resurrection religion. It was other story tellers who further developed the character and gave reasons why he should be worshiped. But by the time they came up with their additions to the story the area was at war. So they incorporated some of the political acts of the three main rebel leaders into their story of the imaginary religious leader, Yeshua.
Later, when the committee wrote the Bible the writers included all kinds of clues to show that the biblical story was just BS. But people tend to ignore the clues and focus on what they want to believe, which is that a Jewish zombie will give them eternal life free of pain and suffering. People want that more than anything. And although muslims may not like Christians or Jews they still believe in Jesus because the fairy tale says that they will gain eternal life if they do believe in him.
So even though Yeshua is imaginary he is real to billions of people because their hope for eternal life is dependent on him.
That's what I meant when I said that once a character's persona has been established it becomes almost impossible to change it. Can you visualize Superman as an American Indian in the year 1740? I doubt it.
About Bass Reeves. In the Indian Territory, there were as many Native American, Mexican, and Black cowboys as there were white cowboys. So many jobs were served by those races with far less pay and more risk to life.
The Koran mentions Allah numerous times...that isn't a meaningful measure to estimate the probability of something existing.
"The Koran mentions Allah numerous times...that isn't a meaningful measure to estimate the probability of something existing."
The Koran mentions Allah 2,698 times.
The KJV of the Bible mentions God 4,473 times.
The books of Esther and the Song of Solomon don't mention God once.
Jesus is mentioned 983 times in the KJV.
Jesus is not mentioned once in the book of 3 John.
So according to the books of Esther, the Song of Solomon, and 3 John God and Jesus don't exist.
@ mykcob4 it is not just Christians that believe in Jesus in the Islamic religion they also believe in Jesus they just see as a prophet and what I seen and heard they hold in higher regard than Muhammad as they also believe Jesus will return but don't believe that Muhammad will return.
So FUCKING WHAT Ali? Who gives a shit? It's all bullshit. I dare people to prove that jesus existed. I didn't say shit about mohammed! I know what islam is and it is as stupid as christianity but this thread isn't about islam or is-lame!