Religion's Catch-22

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Nordic Fox's picture
Religion's Catch-22

I know many of us on this site came to our own conclusions which led us to skeptical/humanist/atheist ideologies, logic and reason.

We still, however run into people who claim that we're intolerant, try to silence us while hiding behind the freedoms our nations guarantee us (speech, religion, press, ideological and political freedoms to name a few). Really though, who is being oppressed? Atheist is still a (stupid) label which brings some bitter taste to mind for many in the United States.

This is ironic when presidents like Abraham Lincoln were not Christians, a fact many religious folk really like to neglect/forget.

No matter how religious folk like to stick their fingers in their ears and scream "lalala" when we try to convince them that they're drinking from a poisoned well sold to them by charlatans, I think its our duty to be a beacon in the dark, the whisper of reason in a rave-hall of crazy ideas.

Many seem to prefer playing pretend to facing reality... Reality is scary, and its easier to believe that some imaginary friend will help than to help yourself, of course.

But my biggest point? The religious send missionaries, they distribute books, pamphlets, they debate in public, they put up statues and plaques and force us to "accept" and "respect" what they say, while they ignore those of us who actually have brains.

And then it struck me, I think it's the way we've been saying it to them. It's not about what we disprove, or what we don't believe, instead it's better to point out the absurdity that they've been sold their whole lives.

Here's my favorite of many logic dropkicks against religion, and a huge catch-22 many religious folks never catch.

It is said "Evil/sin/darkness cannot exist in the presence of god"..... And yet "God is everywhere/omnipresent."
....So, god is everywhere, and evil/sin cannot exist where god does? I think that proves that either there is no god, or if there was, surely he/she/it/they love evil and humanity's destruction.

And then apologists will of course argue "Free will allows evil to exist".... Sure, the post-facto change strategy. Hindsight allows for infinite excuses in the present.

And all that is religion is excuses... A culmination of poor explanations, ignorant snake-oil sales and a means for the rich to control the poor.

I know I'm "preaching to the choir (irony intended)" here, but I feel this is nonetheless necessary to point out, especially to the "lost lambs" that happen to wander away from their "flock" and happen upon the greener grass of skepticism in this site.

To fellow atheists: keep your chins up, stay strong. Religions have existed for thousands of years, and have died out at some point or another. We just have to outlast.

To religious people who stumbled in here: I don't take kindly to your ideology. I welcome your debate, but keep your beliefs to yourself. Eventually, all religions will fade.

Last thought of today... Isn't it rather hilarious, religious folks claim they're "being picked on", and yet if someone defends christianity, they get a crowd to stand behind them. If an atheist defends atheism, they have to defend themselves against a crowd.

Awfully interesting how that reversing of roles works when it comes to the extremely biased media.

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Nyarlathotep's picture
NordicFox - "And then

NordicFox - "And then apologists will of course argue "Free will allows evil to exist".... Sure, the post-facto change strategy. Hindsight allows for infinite excuses in the present."

Right, blanket general statements; quickly followed by a never ending series of special exceptions. Which are all quickly discarded once a certain about of time has passed, and they go back to the blanket statement; to start the process all over again.

I once had a theist tell me that 'God is not logical'; which I immediately agreed with him on! Of course the back-peddling started shortly afterwards, but it was funny at the time.

Nordic Fox's picture
That is too awesome!

That is too awesome!

I seriously don't hate these people, I just hate that they follow such ignorant ideas... But when things like that example happen, it's beautiful!

I just... Don't get how people can believe in something so obviously.... fake.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Another funny story. My

Another funny story. My friend had a webpage where he was posting a bunch of bible stuff from the NIV so I asked him if he had express written permission to quote more than 100 verses from International Bible Society (the limit was recently raised to 500, and the organization renamed to Biblica, Inc.). He told me the bible was not copyrighted so I took out my copy of the NIV and opened it up to a page in the beginning stating that that it was copyrighted and that you needed permission to quote more than 100 verses. This is where I got one of the weirdest responses I've ever seen from a believer. He refused to look at it, instead he began repeating (almost chanting) "the bible is not copyrighted" while continuing to avoid looking at the page.

It was a rather insightful moment.

Nordic Fox's picture
He'll regret it when that

He'll regret it when that catches up, I imagine... Copyrights can really bite people in the rear!

solidzaku's picture
The Epicurean Paradox is one

The Epicurean Paradox is one of the biggest problems with the idea of an infinitely loving and omnipotent God. The existence of evil and negative experience in a world supposedly designed by such a being is contradictory. Why would a loving and good God allow ISIS, the Klan, and your least favorite politician/singer to exist? It does not and cannot by any law of linguistics or logic, which the faithful are quickly able to dismiss. This is one of the many holes in theology that helped create 'apologetics'. People have devoted their professional lives to defending against the indefensible.

Nordic Fox's picture
Bingo, being an apologist is

Bingo, being an apologist is akin to living in denial of proven facts... Which is ridiculous.

What amazes me most is that people can realize that... And still remain apologists. Can't fix stupid I guess eh?

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