Renouncing Islam

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Valiya's picture
Renouncing Islam

Hi all

Some of you may be familiar with me - the ardent Islamic apologetic - who has vehemently defended several issues related to Islam such as the age of marriage of Aisha, penal code, evolution and so forth. But today, I stand here as someone who has renounced my faith completely, and I have come to realize that every aspect of Islam (beliefs, laws and moral teachings) was the product of a 6th century tribal mind. Perhaps my discussions on this forum with many of you may have played a role in my change of mind - each of your arguments shaking lose a stone from my faith foundations - ultimately leading to where I am now.

But God... I am no so sure yet! Although, without a religion, God is not much relevant anyways.

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ilovechloe's picture
Welcome to your new found

Welcome to your new found freedom from religion & lunacy!

Nyarlathotep's picture
Well I'm stunned and don't

Well I'm stunned and don't really know what to say.

/e: Have you considered taking actions to protect yourself? Like maybe getting a VPN or something?

Valiya's picture
Thanks Nyarl... thanks for

Thanks Nyarl... thanks for everything! It's not so dangerous here. Things are fine. I have disclosed it only to my wife so far, and she is fine with it. But to the rest of my family and community, I have not. That's more out of a fear of having to answer a barrage of questions rather than any serious threat for life.

Whitefire13's picture
Hi, Royism ... I’m new to the

Hi, Royism ... I’m new to the forum so I checked out your profile and see you’ve been a member for years.

Take all the credit yourself for your conclusions regarding ancient scripts, beliefs, etc. Discussions occur all the time, however willingly examining “why do I think that?” is a step some never take.

You get to decide for yourself now... eg. Am I not stealing/killing/etc etc because of a book/law or because I’m a good person who has empathy?”

Anyway, I don’t know anything about you, but I look forward to getting to interact.

Oh, and one more thing ...
I heard a similar thought to “ But God... I am no so sure yet! Although, without a religion, God is not much relevant anyways.”

This is like saying “I got rid of the cancer, now what?” Keep “healthy”. Ensure your reasons for “belief” in things that will require changes to YOU as a person has sound evidence.

Valiya's picture
Thanks Whitefire 13.

Thanks Whitefire 13.
Yea, I have not seen you before on this forum. Looking forward to engaging with you in future. If you went through some of my previous discussions you would understand why Nyarl and Old Man are so shocked. I was a dyed-in-the-wool Islamist. Nothing could shake my faith. You could perhaps read my old posts and have a good laugh. Thanks for you wishes.

Whitefire13's picture
I plan on it :)

I plan on it :)

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Concur with Nyar.

Concur with Nyar.

If you have really come to terms with reality understand you are in danger from those who once thought like you. Please take care of yourself.

Valiya's picture
Hi Old Man... thanks a lot

Hi Old Man... thanks a lot for your concern. But trust me... things are fine here. Nothing to worry. Phew! It took some time for me, didn't it?

Tin-Man's picture
@ROYISM Re: OP

@ROYISM Re: OP

In the interest of giving you the benefit of the doubt, I will say I sincerely hope what you say is true. Forgive me, however, if I happen to remain skeptical for period of time. I'm sure you understand why.

That being said, as you are already well aware, you are in the right place to find assistance in coping with your uncertainties in regards to breaking away from your faith. If you are being honest and sincere, then you know we are here to help. At the same time, you are also very well aware of what happens to those who come in here being dishonest and trying to play deceitful little games. So, in the spirit of helping you on your way to recovery, welcome back. The journey may be long and difficult, but in the end it is well worth the effort.

Valiya's picture
Hi Tin Man

Hi Tin Man

I don't blame you. Anyone who has any inkling about me would find it extremely hard to believe that I would change my mind. I just felt that I shall share the news with you guys, since you guys definitely have a role in having helped me see the light. It was sort of a cathartic moment for me... when suddenly the entire edifice came crumbling down. And thank you for your comforting words of support and courage.

Tin-Man's picture
@ROYISM

@ROYISM

It is indeed an interesting moment when you realize the chains have loosened. It can also be very frightening and disorienting. Even though the shackles have been removed and are now lying at your feet, you can still feel the need to pick them up and desperately cling to them. Over time, though, you will learn to let them go and gradually move further and further away from them. And the freedom and peace of mind you feel at that point will be amazing. You are a very smart man. Use that to your advantage.

Valiya's picture
Yes Tin Man... you are right.

Yes Tin Man... you are right.. I still find the need to pray, just out of a force of habit. Also, because I don't want to be very conspicuously missing from the mosque and rouse a chatter in my community - you see.

Nyarlathotep's picture
ROYISM - Anyone who has any

ROYISM - Anyone who has any inkling about me would find it extremely hard to believe that I would change my mind.

Oh I believe you. I'm guessing you've been struggling with this for a long time. That struggle might even be what brought you here in the first place.

Valiya's picture
@Nyarl

@Nyarl

May be... but to me the experience was more like a structure standing tall and strong, and suddenly someone removed a key stone and everything collapsed. It was very sudden. But after that happened, I was able to refute every single argument that I had been peddling all these years. That too very easily.

NewSkeptic's picture
First COVID-19, then stock

First COVID-19, then stock market collapse, and now the biggest news story of them all.

Roy is changing sides!

Like Tin said, hard to believe for those of us familiar with all your other posts, but hey, most of us were in your shoes at one time. Welcome to the rational side.

Are we sure this account wasn't hacked?

Valiya's picture
Hey NewSkeptic

Hey NewSkeptic
Not at all. This account is mine still! LOL. Yea, it's hard to believe. But then... seas may not split, but some miracles do happen :)

Whitefire13's picture
UGH!!!! I just thought if

UGH!!!! I just thought if something - DON’T let Mikhael read this...
Poor guy has finely found some footing

@Royism “ but some miracles do happen :)”

David Killens's picture
@ ROYISM

@ ROYISM

When I open this web site to check what was going on, I immediately saw your name, and wondered what the topic was, but also to offer you a warm welcome. Despite the fact we disagreed on many issues, and I am sure, exchanged a few unpleasantries.

I wish to offer small tale to explian my position. Before 2000 I was very active in Yahoo chat, and the social dynamics create cliques, where the usual suspects get together each evening, exchanges jokes and comments, and opinions. But that clique environment can be toxic to newcomers or outsiders. One day a new face showed up, asked a few awkward questions, and for many, gave off weird vibes. So we ganged up on him, ripped him mercilessly, said nasty things. He left.

About one hour later this same name re-appeared, but explained that it was his sister. She ripped into us because her brother was mentally challenged, and just wanted to make friends. Instead he fled that chat room in tears.

It is an episode in my life I still fell shame over. But I try to learn, and I always try to be aware that the name on the screen is a human being at the other end, one similar to me. A person with a family, emotions, pride, and most likely, a good person.

ROYISM I welcome you back, no matter the conditions. But I am also concerned about you, understanding that such a transition usually leads to confusion and emotional turmoil. So I sincerely hope you are doing OK.

Hang around, if just to lurk. Your new perspective will be a filter, and you will see our positions and arguments in a new light, and hopefully allow you better understanding and emotional peace.

Valiya's picture
David Killens

David Killens

A big thanks and hugs!

Tin-Man's picture
@Roy

@Roy

You mentioned something earlier that got my attention, but I did not have time to address it. You said you have told your wife and that she is okay with your breakthrough. First of all, I think it is fantastic that you have her support. That alone is a major advantage in itself. She must be an amazing woman. Secondly (and this is just a personal opinion here), at this moment in your early stages of transition, HER approval and support should be the only things that matter to you. As for other friends and family members, it is not even necessary to bring up the subject with them unless for some reason you are directly question about it. Basically, just continue along being the same guy you have always been. Certainly, your "inner self* will be going through tremendous changes for an indefinite period of time during your journey away from your faith. No real way to avoid that. But on the outside you will still be you. No need for others to know any differently unless you choose to tell them.

Speaking for myself, when I finally got over that initial disorientation and feelings of uncertainty (and anger), I can tell you the refreshing feeling of freedom and release I felt was sensational. And that feeling continues in me to this very day. I am still amazed sometimes at how much more clearly I am able to think now. And I have realized how much better I now treat other people regardless of their chosen lifestyles. It is incredibly refreshing and liberating.

Anyway, just wanted to share that with you real quick while I have the chance. Oh, and even if you do decide to tell your "secret" to others, I strongly advise you wait until your foundation has had a chance to set to a much stronger degree. Either way, the priority is to be safe and avoid doing anything that might put you or your family in danger.

dogalmighty's picture
I remember you. I was moved

I remember you. I was moved by your declaration. For me it is always a powerful thing when someone stops failing at reason...as I know it is a long, and often arduous road. For me, this is the juncture that I personally cultivated my ability for critical thought, as demanded by my pursuit of higher education and professional degrees. Unbiased knowledge helped me shed my christian irrationality...it may help you as well. Welcome.

Simon Moon's picture
Congratulations!

Congratulations!

Welcome to the world where everything and everyone you encounter, can be evaluated on its own merit and evidence. No need to filter everything through "god glasses".

Also, not sure if you are aware, but there are several organizations to help the recent deconvertees.

The Freedom from Religion Foundation is a great place to start. https://ffrf.org/

This is a free hotline just to help recent deconverts work through some of the possible repercussions and issues of leaving their religion.

Also, a related organization, The Secular Therapist Project, in case you think you may need some therapy from the effects of your theistic indoctrination.

As far as you still believing in a god, many of us who have left religion, continue to believe in a god after leaving religion, I was a deist for a couple of years. But when I realized that none of the arguments for a god stood up to scrutiny, I no longer believed. I am still opened to being convinced a god exists, but so far, the case for the existence of a god has not met its burden of proof.

Simon Moon's picture
I meant, Recovering From

I meant, Recovering From religion Foundation!

Not Freedom From Religion Foundation.

https://www.recoveringfromreligion.org/

CyberLN's picture
Hi, Royism. When, do you

Hi, Royism. When, do you suppose, was the tipping point? Do you know what it was?

Valiya's picture
Hi CyberLN

Hi CyberLN

It happened like this. I was part of organizing an Islamic exhibition about quran. A section in it was about the scientific facts in the quran. In their zeal, those in charge of the section had put in a lot of content which had nothing to do with science. I knew clearly that what they were saying was not true, yet they were so zealous and confident that I found it a bit intellectually insulting. Although I didn't get into an argument with them, it made me sort of self introspect. I began to wonder if I too was being blind to some obvious facts in my zeal. And I just reconsidered some of my positions, and it was easy to see that I was indeed turning a blind eye to what was otherwise obvious. That was it.

MinutiaeAccreted's picture
I'm guessing that even

I'm guessing that even through any anxiety, lack of surety or feelings that some sort of foundation is missing, you're probably also feeling some amount of excitement? I don't see how you couldn't be, contemplating an entire worldview shift like that. Well kudos, and good luck. In my estimation, one of the key things to keep in mind is that none of us has it quite "right."

Despite the hesitancy some of the group expressed, your words strike me as extremely honest and sincere, and it sounds like you're in a pretty good place to face whatever comes next.

watchman's picture
@ROYISM …….

@ROYISM …….

So many questions ...so much confusion....

Part of me is so relieved that you have proved to be the rationalist I always thought you were....

but also somewhat saddened to loose an honorable ,erudite ,educated opponent...….

also concerned for you …… and not just your physical well being ….. this must have been so very ,very difficult for you .

But VERY glad you made it...

Take care mate.

(I still think of you as Valiya…)

Valiya's picture
Hey watchman.... thanks a lot

Hey watchman.... thanks a lot. If I were to take on an Islamic apologist for a debate, I would definitely use your method as a template. It does work when you relent and don't insist on always having the last word... when there's too much heat, there is less light. Take care. And why not, we can't still lock horns on a variety of other issues... religion is not the only thing in the world.

Sheldon's picture
ROYISM "religion is not the

ROYISM "religion is not the only thing in the world."

You're already starting to sound like an atheist, well done.

LogicFTW's picture
@Royism

@Royism

I too remember you from past conversation and debate.

One thing I have learned in my time debating here and other places is: you likely cannot convince anyone of changing their beliefs, especially in an anonymous over the internet format like AR. But people can make decisions for themselves pulling on everything they have heard.

In short they have to figure it out and decide for themselves.

A few of us regulars around here have mentioned we are not trying to change the minds of the ardent religious apologist that visit these forums, but perhaps some of our many more quiet readers they may never even sign up to post, can perhaps gain a few nuggets of insight.

Anyways, welcome back to AR!

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