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@John
" Well, you can start by telling me what exactly becomes harmed in each of these cases."
Society makes them second class citizens- living proof of Orwell's line that all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
You said in earlier posts that society wants whitened, straight teeth. You said there's no harm in that- braces and Zoom treatment in a dentist's chair and you're good to go. Just go with it. But what if you can't afford braces and Zoom whitening, John? What if you can't accommodate the norm? What if you can't make it happen for your children, either? You and they still have to compete with all the individuals who can, though. Can you see the harm now?
Likewise being born LGBTIQ. You can't change it. We are what we are. The social capital we have is given to us. Society bestows it, but that doesn't mean society's always right. It was quite fond of slavery for quite a long time.
Then why does your religions and others condemn and therefore harm people for sexual practices that are not at all harmful? Condemning consenting gay adults for having a physical relationship based on two people loving each other, for instance.
John 6IX Breezy: "I guess my question would be in what sense do you find religion to be obsessed with sex?"
How about this bit of data I pulled out of the Census Bureau TIGER data?
93% of CONVICTED child molesters identify themselves as CHRISTIAN.
Now you tell me what the fuck is right about Christianity?
rmfr
Women have always been regarded as property. Religion has always sought and been able to control property. Like everything, this practice grows far beyond its original intention (not that the original intention was good at all, it wasn't.).
Sexual morality in the Bible and Koran is biased towards men. Men can have more than one female partner as long as the non- wife partners were concubines. As the fundies like to point out when they want a Ten Commandments monument at the courthouse, the Judeo-Christian tradition is the foundation of our moral system. Hence, the present day double standard for male/ female sexual morality. We still have not overcome the Stud/ Slut dichotomy, although I like to think we are a bit more equitable than we were in 1950.
The reason for the double standard in sexual morality is that while it's always been fairly simple to prove the maternity of a child, paternity could be a bit of mystery for pre-modern people. Insecure men have used religions to control their wives' sexuality and fertility for millennia. The most extreme and revolting form of this control system is female genital mutilation. And the most tragic aspect of that is the fact that its a female mystery, inflicted on girls by women.
Then Christianity would be a self-defeating religion. Compare it to the evolutionary narrative that views men as wanting to spread their seed far and wide, looking at the short-term while woman are interested in the long-term. Why make a religion that goes contrary to that, and requires sexual fidelity to one woman for life?
@ Breezy
"Then Christianity would be a self-defeating religion."
You mean it isn't? The whole world ends when "Christ" comes again with blood and the sword? Seems very much self defeating...or am I out of context or not defining the words properly?
John: "Then Christianity would be a self-defeating religion. "
First, Christianity is a self defeating religion. There will be no Second Coming so humans will eventually lose interest. Christianity will eventually die.
Monogamy predates Christianity and was practiced in cultures who had no contact with Christianity or it's ancestoral religions.
Religion plays well with evolutionary trends as seem from the point of view of males. In evolutionary terms, men want their women virginal, at home and monogamous, as dictated by religion, and to achieve that, women should not enjoy sex or have any independence to ensure that the male progeny is really his. Men do not have as many restrictions in most religions and some even allow polygamy.
Well yeah, that would make sense in terms of polygamy but not monogamy.
There is another possible contributing factor....
Don't forget ...when Christianity was starting up ,(also Judaism) the priesthood was in direct competition with other faiths ....faiths that were centred on women .... the Goddess cults abounded..... even Judaism was running side by side with the Ashera cult...
These were concerned mostly with fertility... and its celebration... far from the dour ,death obsessed liturgies of the Hebrews and Christians..... plus..... and its a BIG PLUSS.....many of the Godess cults utilised Temple Prostitutes......
Now given the choice...where are you going to go to make an offering..... where you get guilt tripped ,... a drop of wine and a biscuit... OR... where you get to rejoice in the joy of physical congress with a representative of the divine in a celebration of life.
Sex is a powerful marketing tool .... certainly more powerful than the "jam tomorrow" promise of Judaeo /Christianity. So how to down play the attraction...... well you start to smear the protagonists.... sex is dirty, immoral and women are untrustworthy ,unclean and sinful .
And of course you can always send the boys round........(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia)
It is.
By who?
By Christians, duh. We illegally helped a kid on Thursday escape from it. So yeh, it is still happening.
Care to elaborate on that? It sounds interesting.
My wife and I work/volunteer for an organization that provides services to the LGBTQ community; sometimes in conflict with the law. It's something she had done for more than two decades; I mostly just provide technical support (as I'm not a counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist).
For example: helping a minor flee from their parents ordered conversation "therapy"; is at best a gray area.
Cool! Keep up the good work!
Kudos, that deserves respect.
Mike Pence, probably. He's the kind of shit stain that would. Conversion camps still existed in Indiana until recently, or perhaps they still do. I'm unsure. I don't know if they employed shock therapy, but it was still heinous.
I know Christians have AA style programs, camp meetings and retreats, not just for homosexuality, but for porn addiction, marriage issues etc. However, when the words conversion therapy are used, I'm thinking shock therapy and the like, which I've never heard of anyone using.
Shock therapy is also still used. In fact it is done/preformed at the hospital where my wife works; today.
For what purpose? Forgive me but you're infamous for taking things out of context.
And I tried so hard to be civil. So now it's my turn to insult: where did you get that degree from, a box of crackerjacks? Seems you don't know less about the field then the janitors at the hospital.
You literally proved my point, you do realize that don't you?
@ Breezy
But you stlll cant answer my questions?
Your debating style is running true to form... case you have forgotten
"I assume then that you support transgender peoples rights? that you also support the right of married couples to divorce marriages and take up with same sex partners in a loving relationship for example? After all their dispositions and preferences were "given" at birth and merely showed up later after years of societal pressure to conform?"
@ Breezy
Boy you are in denial arent you?
https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-am-profoundly-unsettled-inside-the-hid...
So if you've never heard of anyone using shock therapy with conversion therapy; why do you associate them?
For the same reason Jared also associated them most likely.
Sat, 04/07/2018 - 10:13
David Killens "Most religions treat women as just property. It is all about power and control."
Almost as if they were created almost exclusively by men.
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