theists are selfish

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science's picture
theists are selfish

Just throwing a thought out there... ever notice how theists think that if everything is hunky dory in their own little world( for the time being) they credit God as the reason for it, and along with that, that is their proof that God exists. But there is not a thought or mention for the tens of millions of people across this earth whose lives are NOT so hunky dory. There are people living in war zones, waking up to machine gun fire, the sounds of tanks, bombs, and destruction on a daily basis. Religious fanatics chopping peoples heads off for not going along with their sick beliefs. There are parts of this world ( created by God??) where innocent children, and people are starving to death and dying of diseases, and it has been going on for centuries, there are people living in filth, in cardboard boxes on the side of a dirt road, with wild animals all around them, they can't feed their families, have no money, and no way to make a get the idea...WHERE IS THEIR GOD??!!! Do you think there is a Santa Claus for THOSE children??!! Why hasn't God made their lives so hunky dory? Why has He NEVER answered these people to help them?? Is it because they were all "sinners, including the children," and deserved to live a life of terror? Or, God works in "mysterious ways?" Or is this all part of His "devine plan" whatever THAT may be?? Do the theists think that they are SO SPECIAL that their God has singled them out? Or...THEIR SIMPLY IS NO GOD!! wHAT ARE your THOUGHTS??

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Apollo's picture
I share some of your thinking

I share some of your thinking. Some theists do think that way - ie their good fortune is due to God. Since God created the universe, ultimately it is due to God. But what about the misfortune of many? Some theists seem to rationalize that by claiming it is God punishing them for something. To me, rather strange thinking.

But your basic premise is
1. that god doesn't help the less fortunate
so maybe,
2. God does't exist.

You may not be surprise that I do not accept your basic premise. Churches run on donations and huge chunk of those donations go to helping the poor. I'm not aware of any atheist organizations which do as much as they do.

Why don't you check with churches in your area to find out how much of their budget goes to helping the poor and suffering locally and internationally. You might be surprised. Their help is God helping. They are angels of God, and I dare say they would help a homeless atheist who may have done everything in his power to discredit them and God.

ImFree's picture
“They are angels of God, and

“They are angels of God, and I dare say they would help a homeless atheist who may have done everything in his power to discredit them and God.”

By withholding the atheist’s sandwich until he/she participates in some sort of proselytizing. There are a few atheist groups that help (Austin, Texas for example) homeless people, but they don’t hold people’s food hostage by forcing their non-beliefs on the homeless first. Theists love to take advantage of stressful situations to force their fairy tales on others such as funerals, deathbeds etc.

Apollo's picture
Yes, I have heard of that,

Yes, I have heard of that, but never seen it personally. I don't think they all do that. Seems like a small indignity that you blow out of proportion.

ImFree's picture
Another tactic theists use is

Another tactic theists use is conducting prayers to captive audiences. Sometimes this is done in a work place where theists know failure to play along might result in negative career advancement. Theists also target children in groups for prayers when possible. Imagine if the tactics were reversed and anti-religious rhetoric was imposed on groups known to contain theists (especially children). I'm sure the theists would be very offended and uncooperative and complain to HR at work. To be sure, they would be extremely upset if their children's indoctrination was challenged somewhere ( like a public playground) away from home by an atheist.

Apollo's picture
Give me an example of a

Give me an example of a workplace where this happens. Theists are entitled to do that in their own institutions paid for by them. I doubt that it happens elsewhere.

Mary Anne's picture
All over the United States,

All over the United States, municipal governments, school boards, and other civil agencies engage in prayer at public meetings, put up sectarian signs and displays, and close on religious holidays. All you need to do is to look up pending actions listed by the American Civil Liberties Union to get a list of places where people have complained about this. Like many offenses of the powerful or the majority against the weak or the minority, we don't know about the places where no one has complained because they're afraid of being ostracized, fired, or other forms of bullying.

These are not private organizations. They are supported by taxpayers, who deserve to be respected and accorded their First Amendment right not to be subjected to someone else's beliefs at taxpayer expense. The United States doesn't have an established religion, but this must be pointed out repeatedly and fought in court (a time consuming and expensive process) over and over.

I myself work for a municipality that closes its doors every year on three Christian holidays. Christmas Eve and Christmas, I understand, because of the economic and civic activities that have become attached to them, as well as the long tradition of Winter Solstice celebrations that predate Christianity. I can tolerate being locked out of my workplace on National Jews Go To The Movies Day (thank you, Rachel, for the alternate name for December 25). But Good Friday? The Library where I work is closed, the township offices are closed, the police department is closed except for emergency services, and all the government employees are locked out. Goody for the Christians, but all the people who are not Christians are deprived of government services because the Christians are celebrating a crucifixion. Not only are there atheists and agnostics, but also Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims in the municipality. No one has filed suit, though. No one wants the heartache. They complain to me, though. I work with their children. And I have brought it up for the last three years. Each year I hope the government will get the idea, but the list of holidays comes out with Good Friday every year. To me, that's establishment of religion. I'm over 60, so I'm getting ready to call a lawyer. There will be little they can do to me, and I do have friends. If they fire me for filing a formal complaint based on the First Amendment, I can sue them.

science's picture
I agree with you. First off,

I agree with you. First off, Christmas is a complete hoax...everyone knows that according to the all devine Bible, Christ could not have possibly been born on Dec. 25. Yet, all christians act, and treat this "Holiday" like it is the end of the world, as far as the level of stress..all for nothing, that ends the very next day. It's a Holiday, like every other one. Good Friday is in my view absolutely nothing at all, yet businesses and establishments have decided to close...and Easter is just out of control ridiculous, the meaning of the whole thing...just simply NOT POSSIBLE!! I think these "Holidays" are just used mainly as bargaining chips for the union know, give us this, we'll give you that...we're not giving that up, and so on...and on and on the bullshit goes.

CyberLN's picture
"Churches run on donations

"Churches run on donations and huge chunk of those donations go to helping the poor."

Have proof for that assertion? What percentage? How much money?

" I'm not aware of any atheist organizations which do as much as they do."

Perhaps individuals who identify as atheist do more than individuals who identify as theist. I can think of quite a few off the top of my head.

science's picture
Most of their "budget

Most of their "budget donations" go to the clergy, who always seem to ride in the best cars, and have the most elaborate living quarters...then rest goes to "
fancifying" the church. The actual people that NEED it get very little, if any, of this money. Because of 1-GREED and 2- the areas of the world I'm taliking about are VERY DIFFICULT to reach...some of them are so far away, and hidden in such remote areas, that it is nearly impossible to get to them. Oh, and I forgot...the hundreds of millions of dollars over centuries that the church has had to pay in "hush" money, for what the Pope apologized ( too little too late...and they STILL police THEMSELVES!!) recently for as " grave sins" against innocent people and children. These institution have caused more damage to people, especially children, than ANY good that they could ever do, and the violators should have been reported to the police, and thrown in prison, instead of being protected, ( which STILL goes on today) and allowed to be passed on to other parrishes to molest some other child. How would YOU like it if it were YOUR child?? Bunch of creeps!!

science's picture
I also forgot to add, ( HOW

I also forgot to add, ( HOW COULD I !!!) that the churches are one of the biggest businesses, if not THE biggest business, in the world...and THEY DON'T PAY ANY TAXES!!! WHAT A RACKET!!!

Apollo's picture
No registered non-profit pays

No registered non-profit pays taxes regardless of religious affiliation.
If you started a non-profit organization, and didn't pay tax, would you be automatically bad?

science's picture
By the way, I watched a

By the way, I watched a program the other night about some VERY uncomfortable info. that is comming out about the Catholic Churches. ( Vatileaks) For every ten dollars donated to the church, eight, yes, I said EIGHT, goes to...guess who.....THE CHURCH!!! They aren't helping anyone!! I rest my case!!

Apollo's picture
Well I am aware of a mission

Well I am aware of a mission that ships donated goods over seas by container. It is all donated, and all paid for by donations. One of the main guys who volunteers there doesn't even have a car, and lives in a dingy basement apartment.
I think you smear them. It is just your belief that the people who need it get little of it.

I agree that churches are not perfect and some individuals have committed crimes against children with a very inadequate response by church authorities. Apparently the current pope has changed the policy regarding that.

Despite their failings I still think you are trying to smear for your own personal gain. I don't see your implication that atheism is inherently better.

science's picture
You talk about these "crimes

You talk about these "crimes against children" so matter of factly, like it is no big deal. Just a few indescretions here and there, and I am using it as a "smear" tactic. Are you freaking KIDDING ME??!!! I am SURE that EVERY PARENT out there would agree that ANY abuse of a child, ESPECIALLY A SEXUAL ONE, IS THE MOST INTOLLERABLE THING ON EARTH... ZERO TOLLERANCE!!! JUST ONE, IS ONE TOO MANY. And these things have been going on for CENTURIES by the admission of the grand high exaultic mystic ruler Pope Francis. If it was YOUR child, you would want ZERO tollerance...the offenders hung by their BALLS, and the institutions shut down and BURNED TO THE GROUND. Funny how some people preach against revenge, and carrying vendetta's, UNTIL SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THEM, OR THEIR FAMILIES!!! So you say the Pope has changed the policy as far as "responding by church authorities"... great, beautiful. But MY question is...WHAT HAS HE DONE ABOUT IT??!! He has appointed some kangaroo court commission of cronies that are supposed to " investigate" ( what a joke) these matters which amounts to policing themselves, which amounts to...NOTHING but the violators being passed on to another church.Forget about commissions, how about going to the F.B.I. and get these pedophiles ( THATS what they are...cloth or no cloth) thrown in prison AND PUT ON A LIST OF CHILD MOLESTERS. If the grand high exaultic mystic ruler Pope Francis does THAT, THEN, and ONLY then, will I say he did something about it. For the life of me, I just can't comperhend why people want to support institutions whose MAIN objectives, PROVEN over, and over again for CENTURIES in front of the ENTIRE WORLD, has been to protect pedophiles, and to extract money from people at every opportunity. God wants our LOVE, NOT OUR MONEY!!! Churches have also been involved in money laundering, and schemes involving mobsters, unions, criminals, and corrupt politicians. Some of the Italian churches are being sued by the families of the Jews that were slaughtered in the Holocaust, for keeping the life insurance money of the deceased by investing in Italian insurance companies that were supporting the Nazis. Upon finding this atrocity out, you would think the churches would have done the right thing, and at least attempted some restitution to these poor families. But of course, it was kept hush, hush, and now these families are trying to get the Pope to make transparent the Vatican financial books...which he hasn't, and will NEVER do. The major obstacle is there is a statute of limitations...too many years have gone by...and these families may not get their due, and THAT IS A DAMN SHAME!!! The church gets away with another one!! THAT is your wonderful institution!! As far as the volunteers, and donating goods, there are MANY organizations that do the same things that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH. And there is nothing fancy being built, no mansions, no elaborate quarters for anyone, and no Masseratti's, or limo's in anyones driveway!!

Anonymous's picture
Reality--Take it easy-

Reality--Take it easy--control yourself--relax--be calm-.. Are you bi-polar-manic. So a few priests are sexually abusing little children. What's the big deal.. Millions of children die of starvation and poverty every day, Parents sexual molest children all the time-Pimps trade children for sex. Maybe some children are too sexual and ask for it. Anyways who says sex with children is wrong. I am sure many children like being molested. What could be wrong with children enjoying sexual pleasure. Reality-I can't understand why you are out of control over such a trivial matter. Be calm-you may have a heart attack or stroke. Big deal so priests are having sex with children. So what. Children probably enjoy sex with old bald smelly ugly disgusting Godly spiritual lovers of Jesus...............This post is meant as irony and satire. I only mention this because some morons out there might take me literally.

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture

..............person.......... your style of sarcasm isn't very effective..........

Anonymous's picture


Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
Saying my people are angels

Saying my people are angels is a bit on the extreme side, Apollo :(

maberl's picture
there ofcourse is no god....

there ofcourse is no god.....GOD is merely a name for "UNKNOWN"...

Religions were made for 2 main reasons


to make this work it had to be taught as THE ULTIMATE TRUTH otherwise it would not have worked at all

Apollo's picture


The old testament Hebrews didn't believe in life after death. Some Christians do not believe in life after death. Some theologians don't believe in the resurrection or the second coming. Some religious catholic church officials think Jesus had too much to drink at the last supper which contributed to his false prediction of returning before his generation passed. The same theologians say, however, that it is OK for them to believe what they want. that doesn't wound like control.

You stereotype Christians in a way to discredit and smear.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture

Control and hope.

"The old testament Hebrews didn't believe in life after death."
true but still that does not dismiss the main reason Control
+The old testament is not a theistic religion, do not change subject on other types of religions.

"Some Christians do not believe in life after death."
true but still that does not dismiss the main reason Control
+ they are the vast minority if they still exist.

"Some theologians don't believe in the resurrection or the second coming."
true but still that does not dismiss the main reason Control or life after death.

"Some religious catholic church officials think Jesus had too much to drink at the last supper which contributed to his false prediction of returning before his generation passed. The same theologians say, however, that it is OK for them to believe what they want. that doesn't wound like control."
Name the theologians which say you can believe what they want?
Remember they must be still theist theologians else you would be changing topic.

"You stereotype Christians in a way to discredit and smear."
Most Theistic denominations fit Abeer description perfectly.
Looking for the exceptions to excuse the evil your theistic religion brings with it, is dishonest to say the least.

Apollo's picture
Jeff, and Abeer,

Jeff, and Abeer,

You guys seem to be very controlling types. You use smear tactics to try and control others.

Most institutions have a hierarchy, so power and control in institutions isn't peculiar to churches. You seem to forget that most people live in a nation that promotes freedom of religion. Nobody is required to belong to any institutional religion.

I don't know the names of the theologians off hand. It was in a newspaper article last Christmas, and the names were not printed.
I have read theology books in which the authors believe churches should not tell people what to believe.

Being a Christ follower is not about control, although some church leaders were defiantly very controlling.

Being a Christ follower is adopting the values he portrayed. He wasn't about control. He was about forgiveness, healing, do to others what you would have them do to you. He disdained hypocrisy. He believed in sharing to the extent of communal ownership of property. He, like you, was very critical of some religious leaders of his day. He was a rule breaker when a cultural rule conflicted with his values.

True Christ followers are not inherently selfish. I should add that I don't see fundamentalist Christianity as very credible. I think they take themselves too seriously, and the use the Bible, ridiculously, like a paper pope. I just ignore them.

However, you might want to take a look at how you are presenting as atheists: Angry, malcontented, smearing. My opinion is you are quite unhappy, and apparently blaming others for your problems.

If you don't like Christ followers, and other theists, take ownership of your life, live a good life, and ignore them.

maberl's picture
yeah right!!!!

yeah right!!!!

they are called religious apologists for a reason....and everyone believes he is doing something different so he is not.....well good for you....

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
Apollo, ad hominems are not

Apollo, ad hominems are not befitting of a honest intellectual. And Christianity is all about control. Christ said to follow him, bear your and his cross daily, die to self, give others as you give to yourself, be fishers of men, be a bondservant to Christ, that he is the way the truth and the light and no one can get to the "Father" except through him, and he killed a fig tree for no particular reason except delusional spite

To top it all of, Paul said he was dead to self and alive in Christ, that he was a slave to God, and behested everyone he met to do the same.

Give me Norwegian myth any day of the week over despotism and celestial north korea

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
Jeff, I lump myself in with

Jeff, I lump myself in with theistic Christians. I'm quite retarded though, so I don't propose that I know anything about anything. Any indication otherwise in past, present and future statements is just artistic license I picked up from watching other people debate :P . I have actually been persuaded against many of my previously held beliefs by atheists and agnostics. For example, a friend of mine said religion is nothing more than a business (which it is)

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
Jeff, any control system,

Jeff, any control system, especially organized and regular religion, is insepidly corrupt and evil. This is born through history and current events. Faith, however, if it is based on reality and has predictive behavious to self and societal advantage is at most delusional and at worst a nulling agent

maberl's picture
well I never mentioned

well I never mentioned christianity and btw judaism and christianity are not more than 3000-2000 years old (more or less).

neither did i assert that both of these reasons are pure evil.

maberl's picture
For me both reasons of

For me both reasons of CONTROL AND HOPE sound reasonably positive by default ......negativity and abuse is obviously then brought in by humans to support their own intended goals and agendas.

My understanding is that as humans were evolving and growing into bigger tribes and societies they started to feel the need of order and discipline to get desired results. So the idea of leaders and then kings followed and rules and regulations to trade and operate in a society too............over the time such regulations kept becoming more concrete and do s and donts followed reward and punishments.......and at some point Kings and Leaders obviously understood the use of power and control and obviously the idea of getting special treatment and praise could not have been ignored........

Later that praise started becoming praying, asking or begging and as this system evolved religion was born and the idea of a king got transformed into the idea of GOD who has the power to give and take..........more time passed and here we are ;)

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
(No subject)

<-- sounds about right

Travis Hedglin's picture
A little off topic, but I

A little off topic, but I thought I would say it anyway. Almost three-quarters of all donations go to religious organizations, such as churches and organizations like the salvation army. But, how much of that actually goes past the church bank account?

Yep, not much of your money makes it past the church. Compare that to the Red Cross or other Non-profit charities and you will notice something. By FAR, religious giving is the most ineffective giving, choose secular charities instead.


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