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To stay off topic, Travis, this is not all religious organizations. And plenty of secular charities are full of bullshit and croneyism too
Oh, the answer is simple. Everyone else just isn't believing enough.
- Woman gets gang raped? God has a reason for it.
- Child dicked by a holy man? God works in mysterious ways.
- Loved one taken? He's in a better place now.
- Lack of world peace? Its because everyone isn't bowing to God.
- Don't have a job? Its because you don't believe.
You see, its all under control. All the horrible things happen for a reason and we just need to trust in God...not ourselves.
/sarcasm.
-Young child killed? Everyone is a sinner, they deserved it!
-Newborn death? Still his fault, since his great, great, great (x20) grandpa stole an apple from a tree, that newborn deserved it!
"The only answer A Theist such as myself can honestly give - 'God just doesn't give a fuck' "
Actually, in my experienience, Christians tend to believe people can do just whatever the fuck they want, with or without God. Your line of questioning presupposes a God that intervenes morally, which he clearly doesn't
Lets face it... adults believing in an invisible man in the sky...how stupid...it's the same as kids believing in Santa Clauss!!
Do you honestly believe you are smarter than Isaac Newton and Tesla??
So because I refuse to belive in a fantasy that isd so outrageous, it defies ANY logic at all, i'M NOT AS SMART AS THE NEXT PERSON?? I don't care who it is, if they believe this crap, they can't be that smart...or logical, for all their intelligence!! Incidently, do YOU believe you are smarter than Albert Einsten, Dawkins, or any astro-physicist??
dawkins isn't that smart. einstein no idea. I can't get through his old timey lectures. And newton is the astrophysicist that all other astrophysicists look up to
So, Dawkins isn't that smart, huh?? And , this is the REAL kicker...Einstein has NO CLUE?? yOU CAN'T GET THROUGH HIS "TIMEY LECTURES" BECAUSE YOU AREN'T SMART ENOUGH TO understand THEM!! Typical theist grabbing at straws bullshit!! You are a sick puppy...go back to sleep!!
"Theists are selfish" is an unwieldy and impractical statement to make. Of course I'm a theist so I would question it, but it certainly is undefined. I know countless theists who are extraordinarily selfless, so at least my personal experience disproves it as a blanket statement. I will, however, be the first to agree that many theists are very selfish. Belief in God does not necessarily make for better people, and disbelief doesn't necessarily make for worse. Like the Bible says, the devil believes in God... Both systems have been used to justify great evils.
So, you are the "first to admit that many theists are very selfish." So, that means you AGREE with what I'm putting across...theists think that if everything happens to be going hunky dory in their own little world ( for the time being) that God must have done it, giving Him full credit. But what about the millions of people (including religious ones) who's life is NOT so hunky dory...do they actually believe that they have been singled out by God himself as special, and more deserving than anyone else...even though we are ALL SINNERS!!! The "devil believes in God?" Too bad the devil keeps winning in his battles with the devine almighty...dosen't seem to be any fear there!!
Although I agree with most of what you said, I don't think we should make generalizations here. Not all theists are selfish just as not all atheists are angry, as what is commonly believed by many. But yes, it's kind of pathetic that some theists think they are so blessed and thank their gods and shout it out to the whole world every time they receive some "blessings from god" without giving any consideration to those who are suffering and are not "blessed". It's like they want to show how special they are while the rest of the people are not. Ugh!
Exactly...you know the old saying...if you want to pass a test...STUDY! If you want to get a promotion, or accomplish something in your life,set a goal...WORK HARD!! Forget about praying...look at how many thousads of years people have been "praying" for world peace, stop incurable diseases, feed the starving that can't help themselves, etc...look at what is going on in this world, and has been for thousands of years...PRAYING DOSEN'T WORK...ONLY ACTION DOES!!!
"So, that means you AGREE with what I'm putting across...theists think that if everything happens to be going hunky dory in their own little world ( for the time being) that God must have done it, giving Him full credit. But what about the millions of people (including religious ones) who's life is NOT so hunky dory...do they actually believe that they have been singled out by God himself as special, and more deserving than anyone else...even though we are ALL SINNERS!!! The "devil believes in God?" Too bad the devil keeps winning in his battles with the devine almighty...dosen't seem to be any fear there!!"
Well, again, you're making a blanket statement that I wouldn't agree with. You'd have to qualify which theists you're talking about, since I know several who don't believe quite that way. I mean, some atheists are selfish too, but for different reasons I suppose.
As one who believes the Bible, yes, I do believe that whatever benefits I enjoy were given to me by the grace of God. However, as one who believes the Bible, I cannot believe that I have been singled out as deserving more than anyone else. I do have more than many people, and also less than many others, but God has given me what I have to use for Him. The same goes for anyone, independent of how destitute they may appear. Poverty and suffering do not find their origins in God, but they find their hope and answer in Him. Jesus once rebuked His disciples for thinking that they were inherently better and more deserving than a blind man they had passed, and told them that the man was specifically allowed to be born blind so that the glory of God would be seen more clearly. He then proceeded to heal him. While I cannot say with any certainty why specific people are allotted what they are allotted, I can say that an all-wise God has done it and nothing is meaningless. Also, the Bible states that those who have been comforted by God in difficult times have been comforted so that they can comfort others in similar situations. If I have been given much, I ought to give much to those who are in need.
So yeah, I have absolutely no idea about specifically why God allows certain people to be born in difficult circumstances. Sin is what causes inequality and need, but God does allow them for His good purposes, and as we seek to honor Him with our material possessions, we are given the opportunity to make positive impacts on others. We'll know all about it farther along.
"Poverty and suffering do not find their origins in God"
hah, I dont see how this does not contradict this:
"I do believe that whatever benefits I enjoy were given to me by the grace of God."
Just like the bible contradricting itself in the next few sentences all the time.
whatever benefits or lack of, are the same thing.
They are both given to you by god, engeneeded to happen in that way because god designed it like that.
How can you look in the eyes of a woman who has been kidnapped(when still a child) and raped for 30 years and say that god is just.
God either is unjust or doesn't give a shit.
In either case you do not need to thank him for anything, because you would be agreeing to discrimination and injustice if you do.
Thus admitting you are a selfish person.
"Poverty and suffering do not find their origins in God"
hah, I dont see how this does not contradict this:
"I do believe that whatever benefits I enjoy were given to me by the grace of God."
I guess what I meant by that is that poverty and suffering entered the world through man's doing, not God's. He certainly allows it, however.
"Whatever benefits or lack of, are the same thing. They are both given to you by god, engineered to happen in that way because god designed it like that."
This is true, God does allot each man his possessions and position.
"How can you look in the eyes of a woman who has been kidnapped(when still a child) and raped for 30 years and say that god is just."
I can say that because I have a promise from God that He punishes the wicked, and I can guarantee her justice. She may not have justice the second she is wounded, but God has promised that it will come. By contrast, from everything I've heard so far here, the best you could say to her as an atheist is that what happened to her was not wrong, it was merely unfortunate. And should the criminal escape us, then she will never receive justice at all.
"God either is unjust or doesn't give a shit."
That's a false dichotomy. There are lots of criminals who are awaiting judgment from our own government, but just because they don't have it yet doesn't mean our nation doesn't care about that...
"In either case you do not need to thank him for anything, because you would be agreeing to discrimination and injustice if you do.
Thus admitting you are a selfish person."
I'm not sure I follow you. I agree that there is inequality in the world right now, and I believe that I have been given many things that other people don't have, by the grace of God. But I have no idea what my thankfulness has to do with that. I didn't deserve anything I've been given, and frankly, we all deserve far less than anything we have at all, so we ought to be thankful. It's not selfish to say "thank you" for something...
ImagoDei - "I can say that because I have a promise from God that He punishes the wicked, and I can g̲u̲a̲r̲a̲n̲t̲e̲e̲ her justice."
Boy, it sure must be nice to know the future; to not only be 100% sure about the existence of god, but to also know what he will do in the future! Almost like you and god share the same mind.
"I guess what I meant by that is that poverty and suffering entered the world through man's doing, not God's. He certainly allows it, however."
Yu just claim man was the one who brought poverty and suffering, when this is not true at all, it is all god's design.
He engineered the world to be like this according to the christian theology.
Find me n the bible where does it say that Man created this world with poverty and suffering?
God is the only creator and he created the concept of suffering and poverty, if he wanted we would not even know about those things.
So stop the lies please, it is getting tiresome.
"He certainly allows it, however."
Would you allow the rape of a woman if you had the means to stop it? (god does)
Your god has all the means to make a bird fall on the rapist head(by divine accident) and knock him out any time he wishes.
Your god engineered this world to have suffering if he exists, accept this fact.
Even worse then just making it possible he created the concept of man being evil enough to do such things in the first place.
God created sin in the first place.
"I can guarantee her justice."
No you cannot.
By punishing the guilty is not justice.
Justice would be to undo the rape and give her the years she lost of her life.
We humans aren't capable of such a thing, but god is.
Yet he is unjust and cruel to first make it happen, then watch it happen, just like his sick personal porn show, then let the woman live with the trauma all her life, then send her to eternal torture if she just happens to be from a different religion or no religion at all.
Your guarantee is an outright lie, you cannot guarantee anything since you yourself do not know your own god.
You are deluded to think you do.
"I agree that there is inequality in the world right now"
"But I have no idea what my thankfulness has to do with that."
If you thank him for making discrimination (giving you more then others), you are admitting that discrimination is a good thing.
Thus you are saying that "god is just when making discrimination."
You are just fooling yourself with such selfish and dishonorable mentality, you surly will not convince any sane person of such nonsense.
"It's not selfish to say "thank you" for something..."
If I see a man killing and robing a woman all her money and food, and then comes to me and gives me her money and food, I do not say thank you for his kindness or generosity, i'd say fuck you, I call the police, because I know that is unjust.
Your god kills thousands of people every single day of hunger, disease, etc, just because he does not want to remove hunger from the world or create every human immune to disease(he created himself), then you come along and thank him for good health and praise him to be a good just god.
You are being unjust, selfish and naive of the welfare of others when you do such a thing.
Lol. Oh yes, god isn't limited to one mind, god is a figment of many minds.
"Boy, it sure must be nice to know the future; to not only be 100% sure about the existence of god, but to also know what he will do in the future! Almost like you and god share the same mind."
Well the Bible is God's revelation of Himself and His will to us, and the Bible says that He will judge the wicked. So yeah, we can know what He'll do because He's told us. And yeah, that is pretty nice.
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