The title says it all.
I want to know why you theists are so damned afraid to do any actual research of your own.
And when I say research, I mean researching actual "science." Not the theistic libraries since they are filled with nothing but pure hearsay which is inadmissible as evidence.
What is it about "science" that literally scares the shit out of you?
What is it about "research" that literally scares the shit out of you?
rmfr
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
"What is it about "science" that literally scares the shit out of you?"
Not scared of science.
"What is it about "research" that literally scares the shit out of you?"
Not scared of research.
I actually really enjoy discussing science. I studied it formally in school and practiced it professionally for a number of years. I still study it informally in my VERY limited free time.
I will say though, my interest in science is not what it used to be. Although I admit, I do still get giddy about new research (especially in genetics) just not as much as I used to. It has started to feel dull, and shallow. I have switched to a profession that better aligns to my interests. My interest in religion has (for a few years now) overtaken my interest in science.
I think the biggest disadvantage I have in these conversations is 'years of age'. From what I can gather, most of you are twice as old as me. That means you have twice as many years for 'studying'. That's twice as many years to gather enough material that you can copy and paste. That doesn’t mean, though, that I have nothing to offer. Often times the thoughts of the young are distmissed by the old. This is something I’m sure we all can relate to.
@arakish. It is the arrogance of posts like this one by atheists that make me happy I removed myself from the profession. If arrogance is a byproduct of educating yourself in science, then I will do fine without it. I don't obtain any self gratification from thinking I'm better than everyone else, which is obviously not the same for you. (not meant to be an angry insult, just an honest reflection.)
@HumbleThinker
I don't see how arakish's post is arrogant.
Exactly.
I haven't read many of your posts, but arakish's comments do accurately reflect the attitude of many of the theists that post on here. I also don't see what is arrogant about pointing this out? I try not to generalise, but it isn't easy given how many theists relentlessly do this about atheists and atheism on here all the time.
Could you tell us whether you accept the scientific theory of species evolution explains a valid scientific fact?
@sheldon
With all due respect to you, because you are one of the few that are more respectful, and you obviously possess great knowledge. I won’t lump you into the category.
Yes, I do believe evolution to be true.
Maybe it is leaving their zones of comfort?
@Humble Thinker
"It is the arrogance of posts like this one by atheists that make me happy I removed myself"
And being told by some geriatric pedophile in a fancy robe that I am worthless, full of sin, and will spend my eternity in hell is not arrogant?
Understand this humble thinker, each day atheists are bombarded by arrogance from theists. So when an atheist is just a bit confrontational you tuck tail and play the "arrogance" card?
So your interest in science is waning and of faith is stronger? Is it because science is eroding your "faith" and you choose to ignore what disagrees with you? Cause and effect, what came first?
As far as the age thing, you are ignoring a big part of the picture. All of the greats in science did most of their groundbreaking work while under the age of 25. Age is a handicap only if you choose to use it as an excuse.
"All of the greats in science did most of their groundbreaking work while under the age of 25."
Very true, David. What has happened to our youth these days... *sigh*.
"I want to know why all you theists are so damned afraid to do any actual research of your own"
Prove that "all you theists" are afraid of research.
We can post a bunch of screenshots from other threads where theists here blatantly ignore our reference links or ignore any scientifically accurate responses we give to theist posts and questions here. If anyone has the time, please... post away.
@ Searcning
Another Theist Dance.
rmfr
@sft
I think you are afraid of evolution because it disproves your creation story.
Is it ever moral for a 50+ year old man to coerce a nine year old child into sex?
Can a horse ever have wings, and fly using them?
What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam?
I think you need to address some the many questions your facile beliefs have ignored before anyone owes you any explanations.
@SfT
Maybe "all" is not the best term but, a yotta tons of theists don't do any reasearch, at least not any that will shatter their beliefs.
Talyyn, I think that’s a good point. I really, really dislike it when someone says things like “all atheists say/do/think (fill in the blank)” or “all women....” or “all Asians...”, etc. It’s a pet peeve of mine.
@cyber
Obviously I’m guilty of this, but it is common for atheists to say “all you theists”. Just as common as people saying “all the left”, or “all the right” in politics. We all know it’s a spectrum.
I hope you don’t consider my comment to be about theiSM. It isn’t, it’s just about people. So far as ideas go, I think it’s perfectly okay to say that all theism is complete crap.
@ CyberLN
You are correct. I did not realize I had used the word "all." Guess it is just so common in everyday conversation we dumb asses just use it out of a bad, bad habit. Now I have to edit my OP.
Thank you for pointing that out. And I apologize for any offense it created. Sorry.
rmfr
Well, I have a prime example to present from the infamous "code" thread, which illustrates the OP's point very nicely. Which centres upon the fact that I provided citations for over 20 scientific papers, covering the research extant on the evolution and underlying molecular biology of butterfly wing patterns, followed by a full exposition of one of those papers, whereupon the resident creationist posted some piece of bullshit from Michael Behe, alleging that science didn't have any answers to the question of how butterfly wing patterns are formed, AFTER I had presented those citations of 20+ papers AND a full exposition of one of those papers.
If this is what supernaturalists think constitutes proper discourse, then I'll treat such offerings with the contempt they deserve. Especially after I've gone to the trouble of conducting the very research destroying Behe's bullshit before that bullshit was regurgitated. It's this sort of discoursive turpitude which made me regard supernaturalism as a crock of shit a long time ago.
Bravo, and I feel your pain. Contempt is exactly what such creationist duplicity deserves as well. Your posts are excellent, do please keep them coming.
@ HumbleThinker
Sad. Just really sad.
Another interesting point is how a theist assumes the genuine and legitimate questions offered by an atheist is considered to be arrogance. I asked legitimate questions about what seems to me to be an actual fear of science and doing one's own research. And you call it arrogance? Now that is arrogance. And this is the same presupposed assumptions made by theists I have seen for over 50 years. We ask legitimate questions and theists assume it is arrogance because theists always rely on the presupposed assumptions and confirmation bias that religion, and specifically their own religious beliefs, are an ideology that is implicitly and explicitly protected from any and all criticism from both within and without.
Now please answer another question. Why is it considered arrogance when an atheist asks a legitimate question that has been proven again and again and again by theists who post here?
And you call that an honest reflection? You actually had it correct the first time. An angry insult due to your own arrogance.
As SecularSonOfABitch said, “We can post a bunch of screenshots from other threads where theists here blatantly ignore our reference links or ignore any scientifically accurate responses we give to theist posts and questions here. If anyone has the time, please... post away.”
And that is the true truth. But a theist will no doubt see it as arrogance. And this is due to the fact that theists actually believe their religion cannot be criticized. And even if someone did post what SSoaB suggests, theists will undoubtedly ignore such proofs and call them arrogance.
Funny you should say this because that is the whole premise of religion. You are taught that you are better than the unbelievers because you are going to a human-conceived make-believe paradise while us unbelievers are going to a human-conceived make-believe place of eternal torment and torture.
Call it arrogance if you wish, but ultimately, I am a lot more concerned with the welfare of my fellow human beings than I am about “offending” or “hurting the feelings” of people who choose to believe in the human made faerie tales of an obsolete, irrelevant, barbaric, savage, and unsubstantiated, immoral Bronze and Iron Age religious text about an imaginative sky faerie and magic lich virgin.
In closing, I shall paraphrase Richard Dawkins, “Theists are rarely capable of distinguishing what they wish to be true from what is actual reality.”
rmfr
Funny you should end this rant with a quote by one of the most arrogant scientists out there ; )
I'm not sure I agree about Professor Dawkins, I think many theists like to paint him in this way, but he has never struck me as particularly arrogant in anything he has said, both in interviews and in his books. Could you cite some examples of him being arrogant? I've read many of his books, including The God Delusion, and seen him interviewed many times, but as I say he never struck me as arrogant.
Very down to earth, and even on occasion self deprecating, considering he has been at the top of his field of scientific study for decades. His frustration at creationist and ID duplicity comes through often, but you can only sympathise given evolution is his life's work, it must be fairly galling to see it decried so dishonestly by creationists who often don't have even a basic understanding of it or the scientific methods and overwhelming evidence that validate it.
This is all beside the point, but I will indulge. I will admit, I fell in love with Dawkins when I was 16 years old, after reading “The Selfish Gene”. It is the reason I decided to persue both education and profession in science. I understand what you mean, Sheldon, about taking it personally when people attack his life work, I never thought of that way. But in my opinion, it is the way he responds to Christians that diminishes any respect I have for him as a person. He gave a speech in which he told those listening to “mock them”. Even Neil Degrasse Tyson said the way Richard presented his ideas was “pointed” and “ineffective”. His book, The God Delusion, which I also read, was detailed but biased, in my opinion. This is the thing I feel a lot of atheists fall victim to; Claiming that theists are the ones with the bias, while not recognizing it in themselves because it is veiled by the curtain of “non belief”.
HumbleThinker "He gave a speech in which he told those listening to “mock them”. (christians-my ref)"
Could you link this if possible please, as I would need to see the context, and again I am not sure even prima facie that this defines him as arrogant. Without any context I can't really make an informed decisions about that incident, but I can say I have never got the impression that arrogance is a defining characteristic of his, quite the opposite.
"His book, The God Delusion, which I also read, was detailed but biased, in my opinion. "2
I'll ingore the irony, as he could have based his objections entirely on faith, and I'm not sure christianity could reasonably object. However I have my copy at hand, could offer some citations of this bias please, so i can refresh my memory of the passages, as this was not my impression of the book overall.
"This is the thing I feel a lot of atheists fall victim to; Claiming that theists are the ones with the bias, while not recognizing it in themselves because it is veiled by the curtain of “non belief”."
Biased about what exctly, could you offer some examples of this bais please.
Christians are biased of course, as are all monotheists, that is axiomatic. It is an inherent characteristic of religions in general but especially monotheistic religions that indoctrinate believers with bias.
One of the main tenets of christian dogma and even doctrinal teachings was the value of faith over knowledge, this was the case for centuries, and often faith is still cited as sufficient to sustain belief, and the value of faith is often preached.
Faith of this type is the very definition of bias of course, and without objective evidence to believe one deity is real from the many thousands of fictional deities humans have created, especially given it is more often than not the one chosen for you by parents and the society and culture you were born into, is also the very definition of bias.
Atheism is the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, thus all claims are treated without favour or bias. So again I'm dubious that your claim can be used as a generalisation about "atheists", but by all means offer some general examples of what you think represents bias in atheists. Of course it doesn't require saying that an atheist is as capable of bias as anyone else.
Full Clip of the Reason Rally, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq7rHRplZKU
Dawkins begins speaking at 10:15. He starts off pretty gentle. He starts really hitting religion around 24:15.
Original comment from Neil Degrasse Tyson to Richard Dawkins:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2xGIwQfik
*I was hoping to post the video I mentioned in my previous comment where Tyson addresses his comment to Dawkins and elaborates a bit more on what he meant, describing his speech as "pointed". Unfortunately, I can't see to find it.
I will give you this though, because this christian denies evolution, he believes humans were the first to "take a leak", and can't understand how the eye develops. I disagree with this Christian totally, and am not surprised Dawkins' reaction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-Eb7k87gO0
"Of course it doesn't require saying that an atheist is as capable of bias as anyone else."
Right, I think it goes without saying that we all have bias. This is a product of evolution itself. Generalizations about entire groups works the same way, which is why it is hard in conversations to remain both unbiased and refrain from generalizations.
"Atheism is the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, thus all claims are treated without favor or bias."
I don't believe this to be true at all. By definition you simply don't believe there is evidence pointing to God. That's fine. But once you self-identify as 'Atheist', then you automatically run into implicit bias in order to self-confirm this stance. This is unavoidable in any context. My only point with my comment was to suggest that Theists and Atheists BOTH are biased. I admit this of myself, obviously, I only hope you can recognize it in yourself.
@ HumbleThinker
I have already seen those videos. None of them show RD being arrogant. Angry, yes. Arrogant, NO!
Quit being so arrogant in trying to prove everything any atheist says is arrogant. That is arrogance incarnate.
rmfr
I'm starting to feel like you don't understand the definition of 'arrogant'. And the fact that you are trying to turn it around on me with haughty accusations proves you ARE arrogant. I do not pretend to be superior to you. Why is it when you rattle off a bunch of baseless insults towards me, its' okay, but as soon as I merely suggest you are being arrogant, you flip your f'n mind? Kind of hypocritical, no?
'OOOoooo, I am Arakish, I have already seen all thooose videos, I have already seen ALL THE VIDEOS. I understand religion better than any of YOU THEISTS. Stop being mean to me, I am the best, smartest, reasonable scientist out there. If only YOU THEISTS would pick up a book and educate yourself, the world would be a better place. I don't care what you are telling me about religion, YOU ARE WRONG because I've done all the research MYSELF. wah wah wah I am not rude, I only respond in due kind, except even when you are civil, I will still be rude. If you can't handle it, RUN!'
Sounds pretty arrogant to me...
I hope this doesn't count as bullying....
I am only responding "in kind".
Pages