@ILC Re: Whitefire's pic - "Before it looked like an alien from a star wars movie!"

...LMAO... You too?... I swear, that is the first thing that came to mind when she first arrived with that pic sideways. Took me awhile to figure out what it really is after turning my phone all different directions.... lol...

But just before I put you on ignore;

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me) "Yes, you were saying you don't think Saul of Tarsus knew that Jesus of Nazareth was the person at the center of the growing movement which Saul himself was engaged in persecuting. That's an odd claim. That Saul might not have known who Jesus was."(unquote)

A. Does Saul/Paul of Tarsus ever make the claim that jesus was from Nazareth? If he says anywhere in any of his letters that jesus was from nazareth, please quote the passage?
In fact saul says nothing of jesus actual life, almost as though he was never actually a living person. Saul definitely knew a christ, but that does not mean that the christ that saul knew was a real flesh & blood person. Saul seems to have known of christ the same way that the greeks knew Thor or Athrodite or Athena. Saul does not mention any details about jesus life, or his trial or any details about his execution (apart from he was crucified). Saul never quotes jesus, or mention any of his miracles, or his apparent virgin birth. Its almost as if the christ that saul knows is a totally mythical figure, just like the other gods of that time were mythical figures.[end]

Saul doesn't need to disambiguate which Jesus he was talking about. Neither was he persecuting more than one Jesus at a time. Nor do bible scholars think there were multiple historical Jesus of Nazareth's spread all over Palestine.

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me) "You also make the astounding claim that the persecution of the early Christian movement was some sort of allegory."(unquote)

A. I didnt make any CLAIM. You are the one who makes all of the claims, which you TRY to present as facts. I merely posed the question that the tradition of Saul persecuting the christians may well be allegorical. Do you have any evidence that Saul of Tarsus actually DID persecute any christians? Please present the evidence.[end]

If your facile question about 'allegorical' persecution of Jesus' followers was merely for shits and giggles then I don't need to contest the premise on which it was based. There's ample historical evidence of the early Christian church being persecuted.

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me)
QUOTE: "I think the scholarly consensus is that the historical Jesus of Nazareth existed."(unquote)
A. Since the vast majority of christian scholars are in fact christians, then it is not surprising that the scholarly consensus is that jesus is a real person. Plus any scholar who dares to buck the consensus & say otherwise, will have his career destroyed by the church.[end]

What a &$@#% ignorant thing to say. Do you routinely use that logical fallacy to dismiss scholars whose opinions you don't like?
Atheist bible scholars also agree that the evidence overwhelmingly supports the historicity of Jesus.
Ever heard of Bart Ehrman? Tim O'Neill?

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me)
QUOTE: "I think Pontus Pilate believed Jesus was a real human being."(unquote)

A. I dont really care what you THINK Pontius Pilate believed. Where is the independent EVIDENCE (not from the bible) that Pontius Pilate even met or knew of any jesus as described in the bible?[end]

You don't get to ring fence evidence to suit yourself. The bible is a historical document and it clearly states that Jesus' trial was presided over by Pontius Pilate. How about you show me the historical document which says Jesus wasn't Crucified and that Pilate didn't preside over any trial of Jesus. (Naturally I expect you to ONLY use atheist historians who were alive at the same time as Jesus.)

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me)
QUOTE:."I think Saul knew who Jesus was and believed He was a real person."(unquote

A. Again, I dont really care what you THINK. You need to provide a logical reason as to why you think that this is the case.[end]

I already did. Saul was pursuing Jesus' followers under the auspices of the Sanhedrin whose membership (along with Saul) were living in the same generation as the person they Crucified and whose followers they were arresting. There's no 100 year elapsed time gap in the chronology here pal.

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me)
QUOTE: "I think the early Church believed their church was based on the teachings of a real person who actually did exist."(unquote)

A. It depends on how early you go back in the early church. It may well be that by the early 2nd century the particular sect of the church that eventulally won out DID believe that jesus was a real person. However that does not mean that the Christ referred to by Paul was not a mythical being, who by clever propaganda through the gospels, convinced people that jesus was an actual real person.
You also seem to forget (or have never bothered to learn), that the early christian church had many sects, some of whom did NOT believe that jesus was a real flesh & blood person.[end]

Funny how you're willing to cite the existence and beliefs of arcane heretical sects as evidence whilst adamantly insisting that there's no evidentiary basis for belief in the sect which grew into the largest religion on earth.

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me)
QUOTE: "You also seem to be speculating that Paul/Saul's understanding of the person Jesus of Nazareth may have been garnered from his reading of bible texts. But Paul's earliest understanding of Jesus was that Jesus deserved to be Crucified and that Jesus' followers deserved to be persecuted. How do you Crucify a person who never existed?"(unquote)

A. Thats a pretty dumb question. You crucify a person who never existed by inventing a person & then inventing a crucifixion story about them. The same way stories were told about all the other non-existant gods of history, to make them seem real to the people who were being told the stories about them.[end]

That's pretty much the extent of your entire intellectual position. You just dismiss everything you can't rebut as "imaginary".
Every person named in the bible is an invention according to you. Herod? Imaginary. Pilate? Imaginary. Luke? Imaginary. Jesus? Imaginary. Saul? Imaginary. Caiaphas? Imaginary. Joseph of Arimathea? Imaginary.
Yawn. Don't you even get bored with your repetitive gainsaying?

ilovechloe wrote: (quoting me)
QUOTE: "How does Paul expect to be taken seriously if (according to your conspiracy theory) his version of events goes like this;
..."Hey everybody, me and the Sanhedrin and the Romans were pranking you guys all along. There never was a person called Jesus. We faked the Crucifixion. The imaginary persecution of imaginary Jesus' imaginary followers was all part of an allegorical pantomime. And now, I bring you Part Two of my story, where I suddenly start pretending that I've seen the resurrected Jesus and I'm going to continue pranking you by insisting that Jesus was the actual Messiah *wink* and that everyone should follow His teaching."(unquote)

A. You show your incredible ignorance. How do you think religions start? If you dont believe that the jesus religion could start from a made-up story, then how did the mormon religion start from a story invented by joseph smith, or islam start from stories made up by or about muhammed, or the bhuddist religion start from stories about bhudda, or the jewish religion start from stories made up about moses.. Or maybe you believe everything in all of those religions as well (I am sure you believe the moses story, just a pity for you there is no evidence anywhere to support that story either).[end]

I don't have to defend Buddhism or Hinduism.
And in case you had missed it, Mormonism, Islam and Judaism are more in agreement with Christianity than dispute.

@Lion Piss Re: To ILC - "You literally said... "I dont really care what you think""

...*tapping on shoulder*... Ummm, I hate to be the one to break the news to you (well, maybe not), but... uhhhh... I'm fairly confident NOBODY here really gives a hoot-n-a-holler about what you think. It can, however, be mildly fascinating watching how much bullshit you are able to consistently discharge. Plus, you are so easily manipulated, you were a fairly amusing little chew toy for a short time. Unfortunately, you are now just very boring... *yaaaaaaaawn*... *stretching arms high in the air*...