Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
Where do biologists say this?
Wherever they happen to be standing/sitting I would guess...
rmfr
ok.
All I have to say is that I have dated a transgender. She was a most delightful person. If I had not moved out west for work, we'd probably still be in a relationship.
In Search Of: All you are doing is showing off your Absolutist bigotry. Want to be a bigot, then go somewhere where bigots are welcomed. I for one think you are a low life.
rmfr
@Peurii
"Only transitioning seems to work"
That's actually false. Even after transitioning suicide rates are still above 40%. Most studies show around 41% while some have shown as high as 46%. I would post links but I'm replying from my phone. Just google "does transitioning lower suicide rates" or anything along those lines and you'll find them. Studies have show they suicide rates don't change pre or post surgeries/transitioning
@Searching for Truth
I have read similiar figures, but this is assuming that the suicide is because of the dysphoric feelings, and not because of other factors. Only about 2% of people who transitioned as adults de-transition.
Are you saying they should not be helped and should be left to suffer gender dysphoria? Why would anyone want them to suffer? With so much bigotry and prejudice it's hardly surprising suicide rates are so high. I don't imagine that prejudice goes away after if they have surgery either. I imagine finding a partner is not easy thing either.
All your post shows is how prejudice and bigotry they have to face and the result is a shocking tragedy of those figures.
@TD
"Surprised your didn't get called......."
Don't worry, Arakish just took care of that lol. I knew it was just a matter of time. Anything that threatens a way someone thinks has a way to bring out the "best" in people lol.
The so called progressives are in fact the most Close minded regressive Thi kers around. They can not deal with free thinking. They all follow the same script.
#walkaway is former Liberals that woke up from the propaganda and brainwashing.
Terminal Dogma: #walkaway is former Liberals that woke up from the propaganda and brainwashing.
Don't mean have been re-indoctrinated into the closed mindedness of the Absolutist Regime?
rmfr
You do see the hilarity of objecting to name calling over the way someone thinks, in a thread you've created to air your prejudice against others because of who they are. Transgenders can't change who they are, only change their biological appearance to match who they are. Sadly as the tragic suicide stats you posted show, the prejudice probably never stops and prejudice like yours is to blame. I think Arakish's indignation was perfectly justified, and hardly compares to your pernicious prejudice.
Be what you want to be, but I don't want to pay for it with my tax dollars or insurance premiums. Don't force it on me or try to make me think you are special.
Social mores define the civility of our age. Anyone who goes outside them makes others uncomfortable. A person who dies their hair green makes me uncomfortable.
Why did they die their hair green? Do they want attention? Should I ask them about it? Is it code for something?
I've only known one transgender, male to female. It was their favorite topic of discussion. It seemed like they did it just to attract attention. Maybe they should have just died their hair green.
Do not worry, your tax dollars and insurance premiums never have and never will go towards transgender surgery/therapy.
If a person that dyes their hair green makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you should look at your self and ask why something so non threatening makes you uncomfortable. Stop overthinking it, it is not necessarily code for something, you do not have to comment on it or not comment on it.
It takes a lot to be openly transgender, it only naturally follows that it becomes a major topic of conversation, due to how difficult it is to come out as cross gender in this society it is going to be talked about, a lot. I would say a vast majority of transgender people wish the opposite of attention.
How on earth does one die (sic) their hair?
Never heard of that ever to be honest, is it a new trend?
The world is full of nosy prigs!
@ SfT
Why not subscribe to this young lass's blog? Buy a couple of books, they are cartoons so easy for you to understand the message. It might help you and your "search"
https://www.facebook.com/assignedmale/
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
Ha! I love it! I need to show this to my trans friend, Luke. He would get a kick out of it.
@Tin-man
Tin-man, my favorite heartless forum friend. I have been fine, how have you been? And it just seems I can’t help but stir the pot even though that was not my intention here. It seems people just can't handle talking about this that might not be 100% aligned with their personal beliefs/views
A few comments on your post
“I simply do not understand why people in general have such a problem with addressing a person in whatever manner that individual wishes to be addressed” I don’t know if you read all my replies but, I don’t have a “problem” addressing someone they want to be addressed as long as it falls under one of the current pronouns. I won’t use pronouns such as Ze, zir, hir or any other made up ones. Many names are gender neutral such as Robin and Tony to name a few, so calling a female mark isn’t the end of the world however, I won’t refer to a man as a she. For example, I will call Bruce Jenner Caitlyn but I would still consider him a man. Something I would say is “ Caitlyn is a tall guy” or something along those lines.
“I also fail to see how being a transgender could possibly be considered a "disease" or an "illness" of any type. As far as it being a "mental disorder" I did go back and correct myself in a reply to chimp and even edited my main post to change to be more accurate. Disease was a poor choice of words on my part.
“In my opinion, labeling them as "mentally ill" and trying to convince them they are wrong for feeling the way they do is certainly not going to help clear their confusion. Damn good recipe for depression and thoughts of suicide, as a matter of fact. Gee, imagine that.” Honestly, I don’t know how or what to label such cases. DSM used to classify as a mental illness but stopped (or will stop) while other Dr.s still do, it seems to be a matter of opinion. I seem to lean more towards the side of “mentally ill” since when they first “discovered” this and researched it was unanimous that it was a mental illness but, today due to being more inclusive and PC it seems more like the wrong opinion to consider an illness rath then any concrete studies or research that prove it is not.
“As long as an individual is not causing any harm to others, why should that individual be penalized simply because he/she does not match some pre-conceived and highly subjective definition of "normal"? Please read my reply to LogicforTW, if you haven’t already. http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/transgender-deulusion#...
“And with the medical advances we have today, if a person is able to have surgery to help change into whatever "gender" allows them to feel comfortable and live a healthy and happy life, then - by golly - there's nothing wrong with that, as far as I'm concerned” Studies have shown that the current 41% suicide rate among the trans community does NOT get lower post surgeries. Actually, suicide rates have remained at 41% while some other studies have even show they go as high as 46%. I don’t think doing something that still results in a minimum of 41% suicide rate is the answer. Do I have the answer? No, I do not and I also not tasked do so. I guess my main point here is the current “solutions” are not working so let’s not try to make this whole thing “normal”. I can get in to the whole trans in sports, schools, workplace violence and many other factors to make my case but, I am going to assume you already know about them so I won’t waste your time.
“I hope they have available to them competent and understanding therapists who will not make the stupid mistake of trying to convince them that their being transgender is the problem and that they need to change how they feel. See what I mean?” Yes, I see what you mean but respectfully disagree. I will repeat myself here by saying that something that still ends up with a 41% suicide rate is not the answer. I think we (all of us) as a society have a human obligation to help them (and anyone else) that needs our help but, that help should be something that is permanent. Hormone therapy and surgeries have failed just as much as conversion therapy has.
One last thing, where does the line get drawn with the whole trans phenomena? There is a 62 (maybe 52) year old man that when he was younger became and identified as a female, when he turned 62 and had a wife a few kids he decided he identified as a 9 year old girl and left his family. He was accepted by the trans community as normal, does that sound like a person that is 100% rational and normal? What about the whole trans-species thing, look up cat girl and dragon lady. Also, if this trans community wants to be taken seriously, why can’t they tell people how many genders there? I am sorry but, you can’t make laws and expect people to change the way they deal with you based off something you (trans people) can’t even define to identify. For example, with the gay community its straight forward (pun not intended), they know who they are, what they want and their “limits”, if you want to call it that. They used those and progressed to where they are today. As I have previously said, I do not condone nor would I ever call for any physical or verbal harm to happen to a trans person. Also, people keep saying I am “afraid” or worried” about them, those are both false. I simply came to a forum to have a discussion (and have old man go off on me), since that’s that happens on forums, not to talk crap about any person or people.
Oh, and to those who said i might never meet or interact with a trans person. I live in Newport beach, CA. The LGBTQ are everywhere and we even have a few at work.
"I am sorry but, you can’t make laws and expect people to change the way they deal with you based off something you (trans people) can’t even define to identify. "
No one is trying to make new laws that change the way you deal with transgender. There are people that want to enforce current already in place laws like equal rights however.
What solution do you propose to help reduce the high suicide rates of those that are transgender?
To me, more support, understanding, and acceptance by everyone would help a lot to bring those horrible rates down.
@LogicforTW
"No one is trying to make new laws that change the way you deal with transgender." 2 links below to some of the laws i talked about, there are many more but those are just 2. Also, i am not against equal rights but, there is no way to have equal rights with transgenders given how broad it can be if left unchecked. As i mentioned in my previous post, where does the line get drawn? How many genders?What if a male prisoner decided to identify as a woman before/during their sentence? You already have people saying they are trans species. High school sports are getting ruined and so on....
"What solution do you propose to help reduce the high suicide rates of those that are transgender?" As i said before, i do not know the answer but the suicide rates at the current "solution" is not working
"To me, more support, understanding, and acceptance by everyone would help a lot to bring those horrible rates down." Maybe, maybe not but, forcing acceptance and understanding does not mean that is the right solution. The reason i say force is because i doubt the majority will willfully accept it However, more support and understanding would go against the huge majority of the remaining 99.4% of the US since it goes against what they believe and teach their kids. Whether you like it or not many people are theists, and even the ones that are practicing still are against teaching their kids such things. Almost no one wants this taught at school especially since they are only 0.6%. Why should the country change many things about life for the 0.6%? I know that's not a very popular point of view to take but, its reality.
https://nypost.com/2016/05/19/city-issues-new-guidelines-on-transgender-...
https://torontosun.com/2017/06/17/the-big-problem-with-canadas-transgend...
""What solution do you propose to help reduce the high suicide rates of those that are transgender?" As i said before, i do not know the answer but the suicide rates at the current "solution" is not working"
Less bigotry and prejudice, and more understanding and help, it's not that complex a problem.
Did you actually read the articles?
They are guidelines like the fair housing act, and you have to maliciously, with intent, misuse requested gender naming, when being a landlord an employer, after they requested you to stop. Then the victim would also have to record you doing so, and for that evidence to be admissible in court the recording can not be done surreptitiously.
It really is just the same as if I hired you, and I maliciously, purposely repeatedly called you a girl, simply because I wanted to make your day miserable. Do you think I should be able to do that day in and day out for years with out any sort of fear or threat of penalty? Remember I am your employer, you may not be able to just easily go somewhere else to avoid the malicious harassment.
"What if a male prisoner decided to identify as a woman before/during their sentence?"
They probably will have to go by what gender the person identified as, at time of criminal sentence. Being a prisoner of the state does actually mean a loss of rights.
Trans species is a very different argument, you do not get to conflate the two very different arguments to try to make a point in one of them.
No one is forcing acceptance, they are asking for it. They are asking for the fear, the hatred and the bigotry towards them to stop.
If people are teaching their kids that transgender people are monsters, wrong, bad etc, then they need to stop doing that. That is one tiny step away from teaching kids that black people are bad, or jewish people etc.
Why does no one want transgender taught at schools? What are they afraid of? Why would we not want to learn about how at least 50 million people live and what is important to them? There are only ~70 million redheads in the world, should schools pretend they do not exist and do not talk about it?
@sheldon
"Less bigotry and prejudice, and more understanding and help, it's not that complex a problem." Can you please elaborate? And how does the more understanding and help effect the remaining 99.4%?
By the way, funny video i was sent. It's 4 mins and also shows how far this whole trans-species thing can go if "Less bigotry and prejudice, and more understanding" takes over, in this particular instance.
Unless, the lines are drawn and things are properly identified there is nothing anyone can point to and say "Less bigotry and prejudice, and more understanding and help, it's not that complex a problem" especially since the "problem" itself is not even defined
Shelon, are you for or against "ponying"? lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sy1b55ukNU
Nice straw man non sequitur, haters just gotta hate I suppose. Bigotry and prejudice is the problem. Like people moronically claiming every time our morals improve it is some sort of disastrous step on a slippery slope to all manner of behaviours. haters are pretty dumb see.
OMG! Shapiro?! That Jack Ass?! You are kidding right?
BTW: the OMG stands for Oh My Goodness. Not what you thought.
As Sheldon said, "I guess haters just have to hate."
No wonder you use the "Hulk" as your avatar. You are worse, though.
rmfr
trans and homosexuality is gratifying yr desires. That's all i can say.
Nonsense, homosexuality and gender orientations are who people are, like heterosexuality. It's not all they are but is who they are, it's not a choice anyone makes.
[plagiarized material deleted, read it here - Nyarlathotep]
And this is plagiarized from where...
rmfr
good call arakish!
Pages