The Universe MUST be finite ... it CAN'T be Infinite

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SeniorCitizen007's picture
The Universe MUST be finite ... it CAN'T be Infinite

The only thing that can be infinite is nothingness. Outside of the Universe there is infinite nothingness.

Einstein: Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,

...but he also said:

The universe is infinitely finite, with a boundary ...

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Infinite what? Volume?

Infinite what? Volume?

SeniorCitizen007 - The only thing that can be infinite is nothingness.

Why should we accept that postulate? Or in other words: you are telling us this is true; how can we be sure the opposite isn't true?

Anonymous's picture
Nylar, we should accept it,

Nylar, we should accept it, because he texted it and said so. Therefore, it is a fact. (sarcasm)

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ MB

@ MB

No it was a telepathic communication from his great great great great great great great uncle that SC merely received and types so it must be true. It has been asserted.

Anonymous's picture
(stands up and waves with

(stands up and waves with both arms) Hi, Handsome!

xenoview's picture
Have you seen the boundary?

Have you seen the boundary?

Have you seen nothingness?

chimp3's picture
SeniorCitizen: Define

SeniorCitizen: Define "nothingness".

Jack6's picture
Infinity is nothing special

Infinity is nothing special we traverse infinities daily just by existing.

One can't move from any set point 'A' to another 'B' without slogging through an infinite set of points betwixt the two. Logic seems to lose its pragmatic efficacy at some indetermate point to the demands of functional reality.

LogicFTW's picture
How can nothing be "infinite"

How can nothing be "infinite" if we have something?

The infinite "nothing" is interrupted by something. Making it no longer infinite. Nothing comes to an end at the "border" of something. It is now finite. Instead of infinite.

How do we even know there is an... area...? of "nothing"? All we know and can possibly observe or relate or even hope to understand is "something." A perhaps unbreakable limitation of something, a something, no matter how complex, can not possibly correctly quantify a true "nothing."

We can only, without any possible evidence, try to conclude that there is an "opposite" to "something" of which we label nothing, but it is just that a label for an idea that is completely unsupportable.



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David Killens's picture
We do not know what is

We do not know what is "outside" of our known and observed universe. There are some interesting theories that there is "stuff" and "things happening" outside of our universe.

But back to the first point, if you are sure that there is "nothing" outside of our universe, please provide proof.

Grinseed's picture
Einstein is attributed as

Einstein is attributed as saying only two things were infinite the universe and man's stupidity BUT he added he wasnt too sure about the universe. If he did say the universe was finite it doesnt really mean much. He also thought quantum theory was wrong.

David Killens's picture
Great scientists are not

Great scientists are not always correct 100% of the time. Einstein got a few things wrong, so did Darwin. Alfred Thayer Mahan is considered by many to be the greatest naval strategist of all time, the present US diplomatic and naval policy is still structured around his writings. But even Mahan got it very wrong in tactical deployment of naval forces.

Great scientists make amazing breakthroughs, but science always marches on, and those great discoveries become just the foundation for new discoveries and application of natural laws. Personally I consider Newton as the greatest mind ever. But Einstein built his theory of relativity around a major flaw in Newtons' laws.

Anonymous's picture
I was never impressed with

I was never impressed with Darwin or Einstein, although I'm sure their discoveries are important.

Newton was in a class on his own. Considering the times, and the culture he was in... oh, my gosh, it's impossible to fully realize all he did.

Also, Freud was not so good, either. Sexist to the moon and back.

Dave Matson's picture
You are talking about a

You are talking about a subject way beyond your comprehension. That is to say, all you can add is confusion, so I'll pass up speculating on your speculation.

Cognostic's picture
@ SeniorCitizen007 - "The

@ SeniorCitizen007 - "The only thing that can be infinite is nothingness. Outside of the Universe there is infinite nothingness."

For someone with an IQ of 161 you sure say some stupid stuff. Explain to me how something can come from nothing? You have no idea at all what is "OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSE." No one knows. All efforts to discover what is beyond the universe break down at Plank Time. Physics no longer works at Plank Time.

Explain to me how something becomes nothing. We know for a fact that something exists. How do you turn something into nothing? (Not a mathematical hypothesis.) There is a distinction between philosophical nothing and actual nothing. If natural nothing exists, then it exists and it is not nothing.

"So, imagine if you could remove all particles, energy, gravity… everything from a system. You’d be left with a true vacuum. Even at its lowest energy level, there are fluctuations in the quantum vacuum of the Universe. There are quantum particles popping into and out of existence throughout the Universe. There’s nothing, then pop, something, and then the particles collide and you’re left with nothing again. And so, even if you could remove everything from the Universe, you’d still be left with these quantum fluctuations embedded in spacetime."

Lawrence Krause disagrees with you.

mikek's picture
I thought that something from

I thought that something from nothing is exactly what Krause did say.... I'd better go and read his book again if it says the opposite of what I thought it said....

Cognostic's picture
You are wrong. Kraus says

You are wrong. Kraus says "Nothing is actually something." Space and emptiness is a thing. Go to 34:48 "Empty space is full of energy. Particles pop in and out of existence all the time."

Anonymous's picture
Right. As zero is a number.

Right. As zero is a number.

We're so smart, it baffles the mind.

Nyarlathotep's picture
And it's not just Krauss of

And it's not just Krauss of course. Particles spontaneously tunneling out of the void is just a consequence of time operator not commuting with energy operator. Which is just a fancy way of saying if you do A then do B, you will get a different result than if you do B then A. Or another way of putting it, its a form of multiplication where order matters. I guess what I'm trying to say is: as strange as it is, it isn't some crazy guess that people thought was cool, it is a mathematical consequence of the postulates. It was known to be the case long before Krauss was born. So it isn't like it is just some weirdo saying it, I guess that is what I'm trying to say.

Cognostic's picture
LOL - I got that.

LOL - I got that.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Please provide an example of

Please provide an example of 'nothingness' or actual 'nothing'

Then follow this up with actual evidence to support the claim.

Cognostic's picture
How is nothingness infinite

How is nothingness infinite if there is something. Nothingness stops at the universe. It stops; so it can not possibly be infinite.

SeniorCitizen007's picture
The 'Big Bang' that created

The 'Big Bang' that created our observable universe is probably just one of a vast number of similar events going off all the time in the totality of things .. but despite this the whole thing must occupy a finite volume of space ... outside of which there is infinity.

Way back in the time of Pythagoras they came up with the theory that if everything is made up of fundamental particles there must be a finite number of them and that the arrangements these particles can form must be finite. When all possible arrangements have been performed everything repeats itself. Ergo ... you have been reading this an infinite number of times in the past and will continue to do so for ever and ever.

chimp3's picture
Define "nothing". Poop or get

Define "nothing". Poop or get off thebpot!

Cognostic's picture
@The 'Big Bang' that created

@The 'Big Bang' that created our observable universe

You have an IQ of 161 MY ASS! The big bang DID NOT "CREATE" the universe. The universe existed as a singularity or hot dense mass and then it began to expand. THERE IS NO VIABLE THEORY AS TO WHERE THE SINGULARITY CAME FROM.


Again you have no idea at all what in the hell you are talking about. Don't you get tired of just being WRONG?

toto974's picture
Thanks Cognostic to make

Thanks Cognostic to make things painfully clear, i am amazed of the number of theists and new age mystics on this board who love word-salad.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Oh dear, The opening sentence

Oh dear, The entire comment is not even wrong.

Ten points are deducted from Hufflepuff.

David Killens's picture


disclaimer: I am not responsible if your brain explodes. Do not read any further if you fear that may happen.

"The 'Big Bang' that created our observable universe is probably just one of a vast number of similar events going off all the time in the totality of things .. but despite this the whole thing must occupy a finite volume of space ... outside of which there is infinity."

What is infinity?

If you go to the deepest and most remote region in the universe, where the count of atoms is incredibly low, there is still "something". light photons and radiation pass through it, and the effects of gravity and time influence it. So when one begins to attempt to define "nothing", it fails because we can not define or study it. At best, it is an abstract concept that still boggles the mind.

So what is infinity? A lot of nothing?

And if it is outside of our universe, does time affect it? It should not because once time has an effect, it no longer is "nothing" but "something".

SeniorCitizen007's picture
Maybe the universe is a giant

Maybe the universe is a giant globule of something and energy is bubbles produced by processes within it?

Cognostic's picture
Another Completely Original

Another Completely Original Idea I see...
"Are we living in a bubble? Canadian researchers say they have created the first experiment that can test the so called 'multiverse' theory that our universe is one of many.

Researchers at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada say the theory of multiple universes stems from the idea of there being a vacuum in the beginning of time.

'The vacuum simmered with energy (variously called dark energy, vacuum energy, the inflation field, or the Higgs field).

'Like water in a pot, this high energy began to evaporate – bubbles formed,' they explain.

Each bubble contained another vacuum, whose energy was lower, but still not nothing.

This energy drove the bubbles to expand."

SeniorCitizen007's picture
Isaac Newton is alleged to

Isaac Newton is alleged to have spent far more of his time trying to understand how the Bible became corrupted ... with the aim of reconstructing the original "true" text ... than he did on his scientific studies. I sometimes tell people that the Bible is "a giant intelligence test" ... the "corruptions" of the text, deliberate and accidental, are of such complexity that attempting to comprehend them leads the mind into a wide range of speculative-type thinking ... which when applied to non-biblical subjects allows one to "go deeper" into what they're about. In order to try to comprehend what the Bible really is one has to very much think "outside of the box". It's a bit like the fact that if one is studying say, mathematics, and gets "stumped", reading some complex poetry for a while then going back to the maths is helpful. Its a right brain, left brain thing I reckon.


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