Very disturbing action by some athiests co-workers

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Live.Live's picture
Very disturbing action by some athiests co-workers

I need some feedback on what happened to me with regards to some atheist co workers. First some background: I am atheist for about 10 years now. I am currently taking a course with about 7 people including me and we are all atheist. If you want more background info. just let me know. So basically we had this very casual final exam. Since this course is not for credits but just educational. However our managers do appreciate it if we pass. We even get 2 more tries if you dont pass on the first try. My problem or concern was that during the exam about 4 out of the 7 students started to work together. The exam was semi - monitored and the trainer would appear once every 20 min or so. These 4 would literally ask each other what the answer of a questions is. Also the exam was computer generated so everyone had slightly different questions. Now I know that it doesn't matter what you believe, that will not stop you from doing something like cheating on an exam. However it got me thinking. For example personally don't believe but I would never cheat like that, they even asked me some questions and I said I cant help you. Now my reasons for not cheating Is not because I believe in sin or that its wrong or that you are offending some god somewhere. However the feelings I got were more along the lines of uncomfortable, dishonor, deceptive, untrustworthy. So now I'm wondering, did these 4 people not feel any of this? Do they regret it just a bit when they go home? Were they so desperate that they couldn't help themselves? It wasn't even an important exam. I just don't understand am I worried about nothing? Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

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algebe's picture
Are you saying that atheism

Are you saying that atheism somehow caused your colleagues to cheat on the exam?

Maybe the exam questions weren't important. Maybe it was really a test of character to see how people would behave when left unsupervised in an exam situation.

But I don't see the connection with atheism.

Live.Live's picture
No atheism was definitely not

No atheism was definitely not the cause. I mentioned that we were all atheist to show that we all know that cheating doesn't matter in terms of religion. However I wanted to know weather or not they had any negative feelings about doing it. But I do see your point on our differences in character that makes sense too.

chimp3's picture
I am a nurse. We have to

I am a nurse. We have to obtain so many educational credits yearly to maintain our licenses. Sometimes, our work place expects and provides these credits. Or, online or conferences I usually do both. I obtain mine through an accredited online source or attend accredited work shops.The inservices provided by the workplace are often encouraged to be discussed among our peers. This is, after all, how we function on a daily basis. As a team. Nursing is complicated. No one person knows everything. Are you sure your employer is not encouraging this sort of group interaction?

Live.Live's picture
Yes It was an exam to test

Yes It was an exam to test our knowledge not interactions. However it was not for credits but the content was somewhat good to know.

chimp3's picture
Live3l: So, where is the tort

Live3l: So, where is the tort? Did everyone come out of this more informed and capable?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I cheat whenever possible, or

I cheat whenever possible, or as I like to see it: using all the available tools.

chimp3's picture
John: The goal is learning,

John: The goal is learning, correct?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Correct: I read and study my

Correct: I read and study my textbooks like they're playboy magazines. But if you're giving me an online test on it, you best believe I have about four tabs open, and a pdf of the book ready to go.

chimp3's picture
I think for graduation or

I think for graduation or licensing cheating is a negative. You would want a nurse taking care of you that can demonstrate a minimum standard of knowledge. That is how we take our licensing exams. There is no way to cheat. You fly solo. Once you are working as a nurse, you are not expected to be a know-it-all. You are expected to admit you do not know and ask questions.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Yup, I was actually an EMT

Yup, I was actually an EMT for a bit. What my professors used to tell me was that a 90% on a test meant 10% of my patients would die. Outside of the medical field, I think the most important lesson is that you don't cheat yourself. Psychologically speaking I would argue that cramming for an exam but not cheating, is worse than cheating so long as you've studied.

I can guarantee you'll forget that information in about two days. I would categorize cramming as cheating, only not the system, but yourself.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Good grief! We agree on

Good grief! We agree on something! But I cant trust my memory any more!

MCDennis's picture
This has nothing to do with

This has nothing to do with atheism.

Also, I work in a company with more than a thousand employees. After 7 years, I still don't know 7 atheists in total ------- so the idea that there were 7 atheists taking the same test at the same time in the same room strains credibility to say the very least.

Live.Live's picture
Yes I can see why. But I

Yes I can see why. But I should mention that I am in Canada. The class is very mixed. We have been working together for about 3 months.

chimp3's picture
Learning is a life long

Learning is a life long process!

Nyarlathotep's picture
I don't think you have

I don't think you have explicitly stated it; but if this kind of collaboration was against the rules, then perhaps you should consider the option of reporting it. Keep in mind it could effect (or affect, fuck I never get this part of grammar right) your work environment. If you decided to report it, consider making it anonymously.

PS: I mean report it to the organization that ran the class/test; as that is where you are likely to get results (imo).

mykcob4's picture

Honor is a personal thing. Either you embrace it or you don't.
I take honor very seriously. I don't cheat at anything...EVER!
I actually hate people that do cheat. They have no honor.
I especially hate the saying "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying." That is so disrespectful to everyone even themselves.
Your coworkers have no honor and I would deal with them with extreme caution. There is no telling what they will say or do.
Now most people will say "oh, it's trivial and not important" but honor is important in everything. It is an indication of character and integrity.
I saw one reply to your OP where the member said: "I cheat whenever possible." That is telling of that person's integrity and character.
So I understand and share your feelings. As far as doing anything about it, like I said, just deal with those people with extreme caution.

mykcob4's picture
I don't care what

I don't care what justification you give it "cheating" is a lack of honor and character.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Your position is interesting

Your position is interesting in terms of moral psychology. Let me present a scenario, if you don't mind.

Suppose your wife is terminally sick. There is only one medication which can save her, but the doctors are charging ten times its worth, and you cannot afford it. You ask friends and family for help, but only raise half the amount. You go to the doctor, but he refuses to sell it for less.

Do you think you should steal the drug and not be punished for it? Steal the drug and accept the punishment? Or not steal the drug at all?

mykcob4's picture
Really, that is YOUR test for

Really, that is YOUR test for integrity and honor? Honor is about doing the best RIGHT thing. It is not a moral dilemma.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Nope, I was using this story

Nope, I was using this story to categorize your moral outlook. Based on that information I can address your stance on cheating. Perhaps you can be converted. It should be interesting given that you're atheist and I'm Christian.

chimp3's picture
As honest as usual! Always

As honest as usual! Always searching for a flaccid "gotcha moment" vs. understanding!

mykcob4's picture
No Breezy you are trying to

No Breezy you are trying to set a trap. You are all about these stupid games. I could ask you if your dad ever caught you masturbating in the closet. Same type of trap. The outcome is predetermined. I won't play your silly game.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
To Chimp and Mykcob.

To Chimp and Mykcob.

Traps and "gotcha" arguments? How many of my "traps" have either of you fallen into that you are so apprehensive?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
FFS Breezy. Sprung, no longer

FFS Breezy. Sprung, no longer amusing.

mykcob4's picture
I don't ever play your silly

I don't ever play your silly games so the answer is none. I am not apprehensive. I'm just not stupid! You're the one that made the statement that you basically have no integrity, not me.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Correct, the answer is none.

Correct, the answer is none.

My admission to having "cheated" should demonstrate my honesty and transparency. It is precisely because honor is meaningless to me, that dishonesty becomes valueless. I see no incentive in hiding mistakes or wrongdoings.

I mean, the entire purpose in saying I've cheated was to show the OP the disconnect between the atheism and the cheating, since it's not an atheist exclusive behavior. How much more transparent can I get lol.

mykcob4's picture
Bullshit! Noone is going to

Bullshit! Noone is going to believe that Breezy least of all me. And cheating isn't an atheist behavior exclusive or otherwise.
BTW whom you admit your cheating to is vital to being "transparent".

chimp3's picture
John. You are doing Yoga!

John. You are doing Yoga! Stretching! Stretching!

Tin-Man's picture
I met an honest liar once. He

I met an honest liar once. He told me every single thing he ever said is a lie. And I believed him..... (I think). *scratching chin*

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Well it is funny because I've

Well it is funny because I've been on both sides of the cheater equation. I used to write other people's papers for them.. for a small but substantial fee.

There is definitely a black market at universities. We all know where to find the pdf for textbooks online and exchange it with one another. With textbooks alone you could easily argue I've "stolen" $5,000. Everyone knows how to use Quizlet and Study Blue, which are literally black markets for test questions.

I think modern education does require one to be savvy. Honor is not going to get you very far unfortunately. Not when everyone you're competing against is also looking up the answers online. I also know plenty of people that study using Adderall. I've never personally used it, but long are the days when coffee is a student's best friend. I am guilty of taking loads of zzzQuil whenever my sleep schedule is off from staying up all night studying.

If I were to describe the modern college student, I would say no one is lazy, they all study extremely hard. But no one is dumb either, and will find a way to make sure their grades are top notch. That's simply what happens when a program only takes 30 students a year, and there's a thousand students applying. You can't put honor on your application.


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