What Cardinal Pell's Lawyer said

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algebe's picture
What Cardinal Pell's Lawyer said

Cardinal George Pell has been convicted of sexually abusing two choirboys and is now sitting in a remand prison awaiting sentencing. His defense lawyer, a Jewish atheist, caused outrage at the sentencing hearing by describing the crimes as
a “plain vanilla sexual penetration case where the child is not actively participating”.

I'm not even sure what that means, but Pell has been protesting his innocence all along and intends to appeal the conviction. So why is his lawyer now trying to downplay the seriousness of a crime that supposedly never happened?

Someone is lying here.

Meanwhile, a petition has been launched to have Pell expelled from the Order of Australia, which is a system of honors for the brightest and best. In just a few days it's reached nearly 100,000 signatures. If you live in Australia, you can sign it here.

https://www.change.org/p/strip-cardinal-george-pell-of-his-order-of-aust...

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Cognostic's picture
Thanks for the article.

Thanks for the article.

Grinseed's picture
Whatever the sentence he won

Whatever the sentence he won't be going to the prison he should be sent to and we can all be certain he feels he shouldn't be going to the hell or eternal punishment he preached of but thoroughly deserves.

Sapporo's picture
Evidently he has no need of a

Evidently he has no need of a devil's advocate.

Fleeing in Terror's picture
Do you have a second link for

Do you have a second link for outraged Catholics from the rest of the world?

algebe's picture
Mrs. Paul Owczarek:

Mrs. Paul Owczarek:

Try signing the petition if you like. I just assumed that since it was about an Australian government decision they'd want to limit it to residents. I don't know whether they audit online petitions.

It's close to 100,000 now and people are signing every 2-3 seconds.

Grinseed's picture
This is the dirt on Pell for

This is the dirt on Pell for the generally outraged.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-26/george-pell-guilty-child-abuse-ho...
The fallout is remarkable, congregation, clergy, celebrities and politicians including two ex-prime ministers, who once gave Pell their unquestioned support are stunned and the Australian Law Council is reviewing the suppression of court verdicts.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
So why is his lawyer now

So why is his lawyer now trying to downplay the seriousness of a crime that supposedly never happened?

Because he was doing his job at the sentencing hearing. Down playing the offence is what every defence lawyer has to do after the conviction, at the sentencing hearing. That's the way it works in Australia. The sentencing is very often (as in this case) months after the conviction.

The appeal has to be on legal grounds not new evidence. Most likely it will be that of "unreasonable conviction" i.e that the jury erred in its verdict. There are a couple more grounds for appeal but they are unlikely to succeed in this case.

The procedure in Australia (State of Victoria) is the grounds for appeal are assessed by a single senior appellate judge, if he agrees with the grounds for appeal (which must be lodged within 28 days of sentencing) he refers it to the Appellate court where submissions on points of law are heard by the bench of 3 senior judges.

This where Pell will most likely win the day on the appeal that the jury was unduly influenced/ evidence not beyond reasonable doubt..That will be in about 6 months. Until then he will remain in prison unless the Appeal Court judge decides that his appeal case is so strong that bail is a possibility.

The whole political establishment has been rocked by this guilty verdict. The pressure on the Courts and Judges is incredible. They are shitting themselves as the verdict meant that NO ONE, NO ONE is above the law....and that in it itself is anathema to those in the positions of power and privilege. Pell was one of their own.

algebe's picture
@Old Man Shouts...Because he

@Old Man Shouts...Because he was doing his job at the sentencing hearing.

For sure. But the next day he publicly apologized for his appalling choice of words. I don't think I've ever heard a defense lawyer do that before. Perhaps Pell's best grounds for appeal would be the incompetence of his counsel.

"Pell was one of their own"

Yes. One of his character witnesses was former Prime Minister John Howard. But Pell's utterly toxic now. The Pope will turn on him next.

dogalmighty's picture
"The Pope will turn on him

"The Pope will turn on him next."

Likely, after he wipes HIS choir boys cum from his lips to say it. Religion, the standard for immorality.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

Yes, the apology sure was a turn up for the books...however

Perhaps Pell's best grounds for appeal would be the incompetence of his counsel.

His counsel is a very experienced very expensive criminal barrister. But he hadn't handled a child sex abuse case for more than 25 years. He brought in antediluvian attitudes and concepts, and whenever he uttered what would have been acceptable 20 years ago he got totally slapped down by the judge.
Pell (or rather his church, or rather the poor who support the church) spent more than 2 million dollars on his defence....fuck him.

Pell in my book, has always been toxic. Had the displeasure to meet him once. Couldn't stand the man. Sent shivers up my spine.

algebe's picture
@Old man shouts: Sent shivers

@Old man shouts: Sent shivers up my spine.

One commentator (I think on the ABC website) said Pell had all the warmth and empathy of an Easter Island statue.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

I think "eminence gris" sums up his physical manifestation.

dogalmighty's picture
Surprise...the third highest

Surprise...the third highest seat in the catholic church, smeared with the blood of child virgins, butts. What a fuckin shock...excuse the pun. "Butt, religious sexual abuse is so rare"...ya, and only been occurring for thousands of years. Someone please tell me why religion is revered, and not condemned, criminalized and banished? Religion is physically and mentally hurting humanity...someone please stop it!

Cognostic's picture
SORRY GUYS: I don't see the

SORRY GUYS: I don't see the evidence. One kid is dead and the guy who lived is just making accusations. Clearly that is not enough for a guilty verdict. I just read the article posted by Grinseed.

I am not asserting that Pell is innocent. Enough victims have come forward asserting sexual inappropriateness by Pell. I am not seeing the evidence for a guilty verdict in this case. Not from what I have read anyway.

I WAS NOT THERE, I DO NOT KNOW THE EVIDENCE. I HAVE ONLY READ A FEW ARTICLES (I ALSO DO NOT DOUBT THAT PELL MOLESTED CHILDREN) WITH ALL THAT SAID ----- I FIND I AM AGREEING WITH THIS ARTICLE - (I DON'T SEE THE EVIDENCE FOR CONVICTION IN THIS ONE CASE.)

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/why-the-case-against-cardinal-geo...

I think Pell will beat the conviction upon appeal.

algebe's picture
@Cognostic: I think Pell will

@Cognostic: I think Pell will beat the conviction upon appeal.

The case does look a little shaky. It's basically Pell's word against the victim's. Another case was scheduled to be heard after the first one, but the prosecutors dropped it after the judge ruled some key evidence inadmissible.

Pell's lawyer certainly hasn't helped. He didn't call Pell to testify in his own defense, and his comments after the guilty verdict sounded like an admission of guilt on his client's behalf.

Whatever the outcome of the appeal, Pell's credibiity and career are permanently demolished. He'll spend his remaining days learning about poverty, chastity, and obedience, either in a monastery or in a jail.

Cognostic's picture
Algebe: "Whatever the outcome

Algebe: "Whatever the outcome of the appeal, Pell's credibility and career are permanently demolished. "

As it should be IMO. (For no other reason than the sheer number of complaints.)

Johann Triebe's picture
Regardless of the outcome of

Regardless of the outcome of his appeal against the verdict, the real crime George Pell should be investigated for/charged with is, as bishop of Ballarat and archbishop of Melbourne, he must have known about the numerous complaints and paedophile priests in his diocese. Moving them around just put more children in harm's way. This is an evil act of complicity in the abuse of children and a perversion of moral and ethical behaviour. He should be charged with being an accessory to these evil acts.

Sheldon's picture
With any luck he'll end his

With any luck he'll end his miserable life in jail.

Sheldon's picture
Find the interview with the

Find the interview with the victim's mother and sister. The victim who died from a drug addiction.

It's gut wrenching stuff. Pell is a scumbag. Denying his crimes and putting his victims through the trauma of a trial.

We've seen it all before. I'm sickened by the callous indifference to suffering by people who arrogantly claim their superstition is the only source of real morality.

dogalmighty's picture
"We've seen it all before. I

"We've seen it all before. I'm sickened by the callous indifference to suffering by people who arrogantly claim their superstition is the only source of real morality."

THIS!

arakish's picture
Sheldon: "We've seen it all

Sheldon: "We've seen it all before. I'm sickened by the callous indifference to suffering by people who arrogantly claim their superstition is the only source of real morality."

I second.

rmfr

Vantenich's picture
I think he should go to jail

I think he should go to jail because they always put him in prison for rape. And in general, the timely appeal of the victim to a lawyer for rape allows time, correctly and correctly submit a statement to the law enforcement authorities on initiation of a criminal case on rape to collect evidence to carry out the necessary examinations qualitatively. Thus, it turns out that whatever party you are in the case, timely appeal to an independent attorney for rape will significantly simplify the solution of the case, namely: to develop the correct, competent position, collect evidence, to ensure the full range of rights and legitimate interests of the suspect or the victim, and only then you will not have a question Vad är en tvist (https://www.vasaadvokat.se/tvistemal-vi-forklarar/) ?

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