What is God??

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Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Instead of seeing videos that

Instead of seeing videos that lead to your wished conclusion, you should actually do some research on the subject.

first of all:
the universe does not mean the beginning, there might be multi-universe out there or this universe might be a cycle of expansion and contraction and it was always there.(yes the video is wrong)

"Nothing" described by scientists does not mean absolutely nothing, it means no matter, the "empty" vacuum is FULL of energy.

Apart from that, you are not claiming that there is a creator but a creator with intellect, that somehow the universe was created with you in mind.

This is a completely different claim which is not supported in that video.

Another fallacy the video is making is that just because DNA is complex and some scientist claim that it could not have been the result of natural selection on earth, it does not mean at all, that the creator of the universe created it too.

I see no relation between the two.

If you find a watch on the floor and you have never seen one before, do you claim that the creator of the universe created the watch?


do you claim that there must be a designer of this object that you do not know who it was?

So even at the most optimistic of your conclusions the end result is the same.

There is no evidence for a theistic god.

You only have presented some allusive evidence of design in DNA and evidence of some unintelligent creator like a big bang.

Nowhere is there evidence of a theistic god that has you or life in mind when creating those things.

Life is so small and insignificant compared to the universe that there is no shadow of a doubt that the creator of the universe created life by accident.

Just look at facts;
99.99999999999% of all species on earth went extinct, thus you have pretty much good evidence that life survives by accident on earth and probably the entire universe.

The proposition that behind it there is a theistic god which is so sadistic and wasteful is illogical.

Nyarlathotep's picture
That video is full of such

That video is full of such nonsense. I picked a random point around the 8 minute mark you suggested and this was the sentence it had:

the video - "for life to exist, the conditions in our solar system and our own planet also need to be just right"

This doesn't even pass a basic common sense test. The conditions on the planet vary from location to location; yet the planet is infested with life in all these locations. Clearly the conditions don't have to be "just right".

watchman's picture
@ Jamal .....

@ Jamal .....

You seem determined to confirm the stereotype of Islamic ignorance ,intransigence and obfuscation....... a pity...but it is your choice.

Still.....once more

Please answer the questions I asked......

That's 1/ do these varying quotes ("sperm" & "dust") class as contradictions...?

and 2/ Is the Allah you keep referring to , the same deity that was worshipped at the Kaaba in Mecca before the birth of Mohammed ?

I'll give you a clue...... possible answers to both questions are "Yes" , "No" or "I don't know."

So its over to you.....

jamalt's picture


1. Contradictions are statements which cannot be true simultaneously. Dust and Sperm were two major ingredients in creation of Man. If it wasnt true then we could talk on it. Its not contradiction its contradistinction. All statements are True. You know you're missing out here. Word "ONLY" is nowhere to be used. You know CPUs are made mostly of crystalline silicon, which can be sourced from common sand. So would you say I'm wrong when I say I made computer from Silicon. Or I made computer from Sand because Silicon comes from there or from tiny copper wires or RAM or Whatever. Here see how a CPU is made from Sand


Allah is so great that Allah is actually revealing you the truth about creation so you are not misguided by anyone. You don't need Science to Prove the Quran. Science needed the Quran to prove embryology and Big Bang Theory and That plants have pairs. Quran says it's for all mankind. We should ponder over it with the intention of seeking knowledge. Allah gave you his word the lord of the heavens and the earth. Shouldnt we atleast listen to what the Lord has to say. He protected us in our mothers wombs. He made you the best of his creation. Shouldnt we for once listen to what he has to say? Instead of arguing over little things. When Allah wants a thing to happen, He only says to it: “Be!” once, and it is. The Lord of heavens and the earth has given you a life. Almighty created us and Only He knows Whats the Best for us. He has given us simple guidelines if we follow them we will succeed. If you want to pass in Biology you'll prepare from the Biology Book. If you want to pass test of this life (Allah's Test) you'll need to prepare from the Holy Quran(Book of Almighty Allah) sent to for the guidance of mankind not just one country or place but for all mankind. And the reward is everlasting and Great. Everything is written in the book. Get to know the history the reason behind everything in the Book. We are not perfect but the Lord is.

This verse clarifies everything. Allah says in the Quran:

“O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Recreation (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a chewed-like lump of flesh, formed and unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term.” (22: 5) .

Science has proved all the three statements to be correct. Man has been created from sperm, dust as well as water. Initially it was dust, then mixed with water to form a mixture like a potters clay, then shaped as the Lord Willed to create the first man and the father of all mankind, Hadrat Adam (Pbuh.). Then a soul was breathed into Adam Pbuh. So Allah initiated the creation of your father Adam Pbuh from dust, then He created his offspring from semen of worthless water.”

Allah says:

"Indeed, Allah [alone] has knowledge of the Hour and sends down the rain and knows what is in the wombs. And no soul perceives what it will earn tomorrow, and no soul perceives in what land it will die. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." Chapter 31 Surah Luqman verse 34

Polytheism remained the dominant belief system in pre-Islamic Arabia. Few Monotheists were there too like Father and Grandfather of Prohpet Muhammad Pbuh. The only difference is that polytheists and idol worshipers false gods didnt reveal a book to them nor taught them anything nor are capable of doing anything to anyone.

But ALLAH the Glorious says in the QURAN: Chapter 112

"Say, He is Allah [Who is] One, Allah, The Eternal Refuge; He neither begets nor is born, Nor is there to him any equivalent”.

ALLAH Says about Himself in QURAN:

"He is Allah, the Creator, the Originator, the Fashioner; to Him belong the most beautiful names: whatever is in the heavens and on earth, do declare His praises and glory. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (Quran 59:24)

ALLAH just doesnt use ALLAH in the Quran. ALLAH says call him by beautiful names. Among them 10 I quote:

Ar-Rahman 1 The All-Merciful
Ar-Rahim 2 The All-Beneficient
Al-Malik 3 The Absolute Ruler
Al-Quddus 4 The Pure One
As-Salam 5 The Source of Peace
Al-Mu’min 6 The Inspirer of Faith
Al-Muhaymin 7 The Guardian
Al-’Aziz 8 The Victorious
Al-Jabbar 9 The Compeller
Al-Mutakabbir 10 The Greatest

Some of the biggest misconceptions that many have about Islam have to do with the word “Allah.” For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for “God” - and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all.

Before moving on there are some people out there, who are obviously not on the side of truth, that want to get people to believe that “Allah” is just some Arabian “god”, and that Islam is completely “other” - meaning that it has no common roots with the other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Christianity and Judaism). To say that Muslims worship a different “God” because they say “Allah” is just as illogical as saying that French people worship another God because they use the word “Dieu”, that Spanish-speaking people worship a different God because they say “Dios” or that the Jews worshipp a different God because they sometimes call Him “Yahweh.”

watchman's picture


Finally......an answer....it is in my opinion rubbish .......but it is at least an answer.

Not sure why you were so scared of answering that one.....

or is it that you are aware of this......

A full list of ...what was it you called them.....oh yes...."contradistinction"

6/2: “He (Allah*) it is Who created you from clay, - - -”. This is one of the many ways man (Adam) was created according to the Quran - even if Adam was created only once, according to that book. He was created in these ways:

a. From clay: 6/2 7/12 17/61 32/7 38/71 38/76.
b. From sounding clay: 15/26 15/28 15/33.
c. From ringing clay: 55/64
d. From sticky clay: 37/11
e. From essence of clay: 23/12
f. From mud: 15/26 15/28 15/33.
g. From dust: 3/59 22/5 35/11 40/67.
h. From earth: 20/55
i. From a clot of congealed blood: 96/2
j. From semen:# 16/4 75/37 76/2 80/19.
k. From nothing: 19/9 19/67.
l. From water: 21/30 24/45 25/54.
m. From base material: 70/39.

#(It is not told where the semen came from).

Now ,I know you dare not consider the possibility that you are wrong on this.....but these ARE contradictions....

Thirteen of them...and all these from just the references to the supposed creation of man.

Just think how many contradictions there are in the whole of your little book.

Your point about Science needing the Quran is patently absurd.... Your cult ,like all religions ,is the very antithesis of the scientific method..... Science has always changed and developed as new discoveries are made....adding to and adapting our knowledge.

The dogma of your ,indeed all ,religions prevents this flexibility of thought.......thus you find yourselves trapped forever in ,(in your case ) a 6th century mindset..unable to progress your version of civilisation under your own power.

Now on to Allah......
I read what you posted ,interspersed as it was with pointless Quranic quotes, as saying that there is and always was only one Allah......

Thus Your Allah is the same deity as the Allah that was worshipped as one of the 360 pagan gods at the Kaaba in the period before Mohammed began his mission.
The same as the Allah that had three daughters (the 3 cranes) Al-Lat ,Al-Uzza & Manat............

(this ,of course ,would make more sense of the so-called Satanic Verse episode ,in that it would be necessary for Mohammed in his re defining of Allah would have to distance the new Allah from the three popular and powerful female cult deities.)

Pomterez13's picture
So are you saying we live

So are you saying we live under biblical or quranic rules and views? In which case, i guess you could make the point that many people believe in biblical or quranic views and teachings but our justice systems don't not take their morality and reason from any scripture. The justice system is made to best protect the people from the tyranny of evil and is a direct reflection of what is best for the majority of a community. What the justice system does is determine whether actions have severe consequences and should anyone commit these actions, they should be punished. Not because God says so ( I use God as a general term.) Your book shouldn't be used as a moral compass anyway and nor should any religion's book. To answer your question, you would replace those old books with reason, evidence, and logic. Just because we don't have scripture doesn't mean we couldn't make laws or rules ourselves. Your question would imply that atheist have no moral and that's just wrong and in a way disrespectful. In fact I would go as far as to say it asserts YOU and the rest of religion is right. You guys act like everything your book says is right but how could you have read it and thought that what the book said was true or moral? How can you conclude that what the book says is even Gods word? As far as we know it could have been a story written by desert dwellers and there's nothing to say that isnt possible. Atheist don't believe because there isn't a single theist that could give you an explanation that can be tested by anyone other than God.

jamalt's picture
I say all statements are true

I say all statements are true. Yes once there was no man. Nothing. And then he was created. And how he was created has been told. Its worth it that it was at least told 1400 years ago. And you should at least agree that all things you mentioned were used in Creation. Now can we stop beating about the bush and out of 6,236 verses you came up with creation of Man which is true and the only book that talks about it. Atleast appreciate the fact that it talks about creation which science has proved. The same website which you went to find contradictions in Quran have given answers about creation in the light of science cared to visit once?

Now I challenge you. Instead of visiting websites and try to find contradictions which have been proved wrong already many a times can you read the book yourself and point out some? Read the book and use your intellect and point out because this is the old trick of talking about creation when it has been proved to every bit. Come up with something that you yourself can find and prove wrong.
Then I'll know your intention is to seek knowledge and find the truth. First see in what context Quran is reminding you of Allah's Favors. Quran is reminding you of your creation in different ways. Allah reminds us in different ways giving examples of His creation. Try to focus on that and tell me if you find anything yourself. How can you criticize without reading the book. Skimming and scanning won't do. Read it. Try to understand and read hundred more things that have been there in the book 1400 years ago. Think. Don't let your ego cloud your judgement of goodness.

ThePragmatic's picture
You issue challenges to

You issue challenges to atheists, but you wont answer some simple questions yourself?

jamalt's picture
I replied there. Thanks for

I replied there. Thanks for pointing.

watchman's picture
@ Jamal....

@ Jamal....

"And you should at least agree that all things you mentioned were used in Creation."

NO! of course not......and I'll thank you not to try to tell me what I should agree to......you have no authority here.

There you go again...thinking you and your "religion" are something special.....

your claim that the Quran is ," is true and the only book that talks about it."....this ,like so much in your faith , is palpably nonsense....

far from being the only book it is merely one of many mythologies that propose a tale of mankind being created from clay....The mythologies of Greece ,Babylon ,Sumerian ,the Jews ,of course , find a fuller list here...link:


So you see there is nothing very remarkable about your little tale.......in fact your "true" tale could be called almost commonplace.

You see...this is what I was talking about....you are trapped in your AD 600 mind set.....lost to reason.

I'd be obliged if you could make good on your vainglorious boast of having evidence of a scientific backup to your little tale of creation..... a simple web address should suffice....

I'm not sure where you get the idea that I have not read the Quran from....I think you are dealing in stereotypes ....(that is very insulting) ..in fact I've read it twice ,in two translations....and very tedious it was too.

You challenge me to try to find "for myself" other contradictions......OK.........

tell me what you know of "Isra & Miraj"......

educate the forum on this point......

(a brief over view will do ...... no more walls of text ......this is an Atheist forum.....I think you'll find its counter productive).

jamalt's picture
Like you said in your point

Like you said in your point earlier. You mentioned above creation of man in Quran. Point j.From semen:# 16/4 75/37 76/2 80/19.
Now please come up with verses from all the mythologies like this one. Please do.

“O mankind! If ye have a doubt about the Recreation (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a chewed-like lump of flesh, formed and unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term.” (22: 5) .

Then we will talk. Also tell me when they talk about creation are their books or whatever at least 50% correct. Nah. They have many Gods to start with. Gods of Son, Moon, Love and what not. More than one creators? Read them and you'll find all bizarre stuff like Man and Woman dreamt God dreaming about Man and Woman. Who doesnt know about Greek myths. If you want to believe them its up to you.

The Sumerian mythology in the link you proudly posted says the primordial union of An and Ki produced Enlil, who became leader of the Sumerian pantheon. After the other deities banished Enlil from Dilmun (the “home of the deities”) for raping the air goddess Ninlil; she had a child, Nanna, god of the moon. Nanna and Ningal gave birth to Inanna, the goddess of war and fertility, and to Utu, god of the sun.

Chinese mythology says most Chinese Gods and Goddesses are deified humans — which means they're as prone to mistakes as we are. But rather than airbrush out the embarrassments, China revels in them. We suspect that even the JADE-EMPEROR, the stern-faced Ruler of Heaven, sometimes has trouble keeping a straight face.

You want me to Continue?

As for the Miraj, If you believe in Angels. Then you must know they travel towards the earth and then to heavens in large numbers. The speed you can't even imagine.

So if you believe in ALLAH, Angels and Prophets. Calling a beloved prophet showing him heaven and hell and giving him the gift of prayers can be by none other than Allah. Believe in The Book and you'll know what is life for real.

watchman's picture
@Jamal ....

@Jamal ....

"They have many Gods to start with.".......................just as your own religion had ......before Mohammed's power grab and the expulsion of the 359 other gods of the Meccans.

But this is beside the issue.... You've completely missed the point again ..... or should that be yet again.

The point is...that a great many mythologies have a story of the making of man from clay.....just as your own "faith" does....it is not exclusive to Islam.....its just another element purloined from someone else's mythology.

"You want me to Continue?"

By all means ,if it pleases you....... you might even be able to see for yourself where many of your religions more eccentric beliefs come from..

As for the Isra & Miraj ......

You disappoint me ....again.....

you do not do the tale justice....

how did Mohammed travel ?

from where was he taken ?

and to where was he delivered ?

what did he see there ?

I know I asked for brevity.......but....

come come Jamal.....this story explains Islams 3rd Holiest site .... surely it deserves better than the three sentences you gave

..... please ...... try again..

jamalt's picture
You said yourself don't quote

You said yourself don't quote from the Book regarding Miraj. You don't you read about it and its interpretation. I know it since my childhood its all over the internet and in every book of interpretation and lectures are there. I gave you a one liner so that you may at least believe that if it was possible for Angels to travel faster than speed of light by the will of Allah then it was nothing as compared to that. Jesus Peace be upon him could wake up people from the Dead by the help of Allah then travelling to the heavens is the same as anything else that happens by the will of Allah. Allah will gather all of mankind from dead. What makes you think its impossible for God to call his Prophet to heavens?

Im writing a Book. Al Miraj will be there In Sha Allah. There will be so much more for atheists and other religions to ponder upon. I'll share with you. But because you insist. The Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was taken from Makkah al-Mukarramah to Baitulmaqdis Jerusalem, the journey was covered on buraq (a special heavenly horse to ride).from here Prophet pbuh ascended to the seven heavens one by one and met Prophets peace be upon them including Prophet Jesus pbuh Prophet Moses pbuh and Prophet Ibrahim pbuh. At that time, first came the command that his people were being obligated with fifty prayers, then, these were reduced to five.

Imam Ibn Kathir has, in his Tafsir, reported all these narratives and after applying the standard rules of scrutiny has mentioned the names of twenty-five Sahabah from whom these reports come. Their names are:

Sayyidna 'Umar ibn al-Khattab,
Sayyidna 'Ali al-Murtaza,
Sayyidna 'Abdullah ibn Mas'ud,
Sayyidna Abu Dharr al-Ghifari,
Sayyidna Malik ibn Sa'sa'ah,
Sayyidna Abu Hurairah,
Sayyidna Abu Sa'ld al-Khudri,
Sayyidna 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas,
Sayyidna Shaddad ibn Aws,
Sayyidna Ubaiyy ibn Ka'b,
Sayyidna 'Abd ar-Rahman ibn al-Quraz,
Sayyidna Abu Hayyah ,
Sayyidna Abu Laila,
Sayyidna 'Abdullah ibn 'Umar,
Sayyidna Jablr ibn 'Abdullah,
Sayyidna Hudhayfah ibn Yaman,
Sayyidna Buraidah,
Sayyidna Abu Ayyub al-Ansari,
Sayyidna Abu 'Umamah,
Sayyidna Samurah ibn Jundub,
Sayyidna Abu al-Hamra',
Sayyidna Suhayb al-Rumi,
Sayyidah Umm Hani',
Umm al-Mu'minin Sayyidah 'A'ishah,
Sayyidah Asma' bint Abi Bakr, After that, Ibn Kathir said:

As for the Hadith of al-Isra', there is a consensus of all Muslim on it. Only heretics and atheists have denied it. (Ibn Kathir)

The testimony of a non-Muslims about the event of Mi'raj

It appears in Tafsir ibn Kathir that Hafiz Abu Nu'aym al-Isbahani, in his book, Da la'il al-Nubuwwah , has reported a narrative from Muhammad ibn Ka'b al-Qurazi on the authority of Muhammad ibn 'Amr al-Waqidi *(RA) giving details of the event as follows:

The Holy Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) sent Sayyidna Dihyah ibn Khallfah (RA) with a blessed letter from him to the Roman Emperor, Caesar. After that, he has given a detailed account of how Sayyidna Dihyah reached the Emperor, delivered the letter, and how intelligent he was in his mission (an event present in the Sahih of al-B'ukhari as well as in all trustworthy books of Ahadith). Towards the end of it, it has been reported that Hiraql, the Roman Emperor, once he had read the blessed letter, ordered that all Arab traders who were visiting the country at that time should be assembled together. He wanted to investigate into the background of the Holy Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam). The royal order was carried out. Abu Sufyan ibn Harb and those with him visiting Syria at that time with their famous trade caravan were presented before the Emperor. Details of the questions asked by the Emperor are present in the Sahih of al-Bukhari and Muslim, as well as elsewhere. Abu Sufyan was really eager to use this occasion to say things about the Holy Prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) which show his insignificance. But, says Abu Sufyan : Nothing stopped me from doing that except that I may slip and say something which turns out to be a lie and I stand disgraced in the eyes of the Emperor and my own comrades keep taunting me for being a liar. Certainly, then it occurred to me that I should relate the event of Mi'raj before him. The Emperor would himself conclude from it that it was a lie. So, I said: I shall describe before you what he claims to have happened to him regarding which you will yourself realize that it was a lie. Hiraql asked:

What event is that? Abu Sufyan said: This claimant of prophet-hood says that, one night, he left Makkah al-Mukarramah, reached this Masjid Baytul-maqdis of yours and, then, within that night, before dawn, he returned to us in Makkah al-Mukarramah!

At that time, the leading scholar of Elia' (Baytul-maqdis) was standing close to Hiraql, the Roman Emperor. He disclosed that he knew that night. The Emperor turned to him and inquired as to how did he come to know about it. He submitted that, as a matter of habit, he would not sleep at night until he had closed all gates of Baytul-maqdis. That night he habitually closed all gates but one which would not close despite his effort. He summoned his staff. They all tried but they too failed to close it. The panels of the gate remained simply unmoved from their place. It seemed as if they were trying to move some mountain. Rendered helpless, he called technicians and carpenters. They looked at the gate and decided that the weight of the building has come to rest on the panels of the gate. There was no way it could be closed before morning. When morning comes, they said, they will see how this could be fixed. Nonplussed, he returned leaving both panels of the gate ajar. As soon as it was morning, he came back to the gate where he noticed that someone had made a hole in the rock close to the gate of the Masjid which gave the impression that some animal was tied down there. At that time he had told his colleagues: Perhaps, Allah Ta'ala has caused this gate not to close today because some prophet was to come here. And then, he also stated that this blessed prophet (Sallaho Alaihe Wassallam) has also offered his prayer in this Masjid of ours. Thereafter, he has described further details. (Ibn Kathir, p. 24, v.3)

ThePragmatic's picture
"The Prophet Muhammad Pbuh

"The Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was taken from Makkah al-Mukarramah to Baitulmaqdis Jerusalem, the journey was covered on buraq (a special heavenly horse to ride).from here Prophet pbuh ascended to the seven heavens"

Just to be clear, this is what you are talking about?

The Buraq:


Attach Image/Video?: 

ThePragmatic's picture
The Buraq:

The Buraq:


Attach Image/Video?: 

watchman's picture
The Pragmatic....

The Pragmatic....

I've always been put in mind of the Lamassu of the Babylonians.....

but then that would mean another "borrowing" of the mythology of others...and that ,I suspect ,would never do...

ThePragmatic's picture
Hmm, I thought it seemed

Hmm, I thought it seemed familiar. :)

ThePragmatic's picture
The Buraq with Muhammed:


In my endless ignorance and insensibility, I accidentally posted a picture of Muhammed while posting a picture of the Buraq. I honestly didn't even reflect on posting a picture of the prophet.

So now instead I give you:

The Buraq without Muhammed riding it:


Attach Image/Video?: 

watchman's picture


Its all or nothing with you ,it seems....

Ok...so what we have is a tale of mohammed being transported by a super natural creature (the Buraq ,as you say ,"a special heavenly horse ")

He is taken ,in the space of one night, from Mecca to Jerusalem where he is greeted by angels (principally Gibril [Gabriel] and assorted other prophets , He is given instruction and visions etc.

Pretty standard mythological fayre..... Special journey ,sacred teachings and so on...much like Oedipus and the Sphinx..Theseus and the Labyrinth etc.

But muslims are told this is not mythic...they are told it actually happened....

There is no clear cut identification of just where these meetings took place...some say it was in the Temple...(you know..the one built by David & Solomon......or it could be the Al Aqsa mosque ,built on the site of the said Temple....

BUT...and it is a pretty big but.....there is a problem.....

The Temple was famously ,completely destroyed by the Romans about 500 years before mohammed was even born.... similarly the Al Aqsa wasn't built until around 40 or so years after mohammeds death.....

The prophet was questioned on the building he saw by his companions the following morning and gave a full description ,including the number of doors and windows etc.

This was attested to as being a true description by Abu Bakir (who recieved the title Al Sidiqi {the truthful} in consequence) saying that he had seen it during his travels.

and yet....during the lifetime of mohammed the derelict Temple site in Jerusalem was used as a sort of civic rubbish dump...the only building on the site was a decaying Greek Orthodox Chapel (the church of St Lawrence ,from memory...but that may be the wrong name)....

So another ,what shall we call it ...an "anomaly" within the Quran.....and this is before we even consider the Buraq....an equine with the head of a beautiful man ,bigger than a donkey but smaller than a mule and winged ...with a stride that reaches the horizon....

this is undoubtedly mythic in the same vein as Pegasus and Sleipnir (Odins 8 legged horse)

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
But you have to give Jamal a

But you have to give Jamal a break.

He is so happy to be more realistic then his rival religious people, that he did not realize that he stumbled upon sane people now.

He has to yet come to terms that even though his fairy tale is better then the christian one, where Jesus flew on his own to heaven, it does not mean it actually makes more sens. lol

Vincent Paul Tran's picture
........ time travel maybe?

........ time travel maybe?

watchman's picture


Yup ,I think they missed a trick ...they should have claimed the miracle of time travel too

jamalt's picture


I see you have visited and consulted a lot of Anti Islamic websites recently.. here's what a Phd in History said Nebi Bozkurt

The Al-Aqsa Mosque is the first kiblah (direction that is prayed to) of Muslims and one of the three places of worship considered most sacred. In Aramaic, the Al-Aqsa Mosque is referred to as Beth Makdesha, in Hebrew Beth Ha-Miqdash and Arabic Bait-ul Maqdis, meaning "Sacred house." These names have remained with it since its establishment was later used to encompass the entire city. The name Al-Qudus (Jerusalem), which Muslims have embraced, comes from the same root and refers to the place of worship and not the entire city.

Islamic scholars agree that the place referred to in the Holy Qur'an as Masjid-ul Aqsa, whose surroundings have been made sacred, are in fact Bait-ul Maqdis. In Arabic, "aqsa" means far and the place of worship was given this name due to its distance from Mecca. According to Judaism, it existed before the world did; however it was in the heavens. God then began to create it from where his shadow was cast and it was at that point that the Prophet Adam was created. According to a hadith, this is the second oldest place of worship erected for mankind following the Masjid-ul Haram in Mecca.

Today the Kaba along with its surroundings is referred to as the Masjid-ul Haram and similarly Masjid-ul Aqsa, along with its surroundings is referred to as Harem-i Shareef. The Harem-i Shareef encompasses an area in Jerusalem whose north extends 321 meters, it's south 283 meters, it's east 474 meters and west 490 meters. This sacred location contains the Qubbat As-Sakhrah (the mosque itself) whose its maximum height reaches 30-40 kilometers and is surrounded by walls.

The establishing of the location and planning of the Al-Aqsa Mosque begins with the Prophet Davud (David, pbuh) However, Allah indicates that the place of worship will be completed by Prophet Sulaiman (Solomon, pbuh). Thus Prophet Davud would explain the situation to his son Sulaiman and order him to build the mosque, entrusting him with all of the supplies and workers necessary to build the structure.

The Bait-ul Maqdis, which is full of valuable goods, was attacked by occupiers and looters from time to time, which lead to it becoming damaged. The greatest destruction came during the time of Babylonian Emperor Buhtunnasr II and the third conquering of Jerusalem (B.C. 586). Buhtunnasr, who completely destroyed the city, took the gold embossments off of the door and walls of the destroyed temple, along with all the other valuable pillage and a large portion of the people to Babylon along with him. The Babylonian bondage, which began in this fashion ended with the occupation by the Persian Empire (B.C. 539). A Jewish leader, Zerubabbel, along with his friends, then headed to Jerusalem in order to reconstruct this place of worship (B.C. 515), a process which took around 25 years. Jerusalem, which remained under the control of Parthians for a short period of time, was seized by Herod I (also known as the Herod the Great), whom the Romans declared a Jewish King; through the help of Jews the temple was restructured and expanded. This particular phase of construction began around 20 years prior to the birth of Isa (Jesus, pbuh) and continued into his lifetime. The Western Wall (also referred to as the Wailing Wall), which is currently used by Jews for prayer as it is believed to be an original part of the Temple of Solomon, is part of the walls surrounding this place of worship which is located in the West wing of the building. The rooms referred to in the Qur'an, in which Prophet Zakariyya (Zachariah, pbuh) and Mariam (Mary, pbuh) sought refuge for worship must be located within this structure.

The temple along with Jerusalem were almost completely burned down following the conquest by the Roman Army under the command of Titus in 70 A.D.; the city was reconstructed during the time of Hadrien (117-138 A.D.) and the Jupiter Capitolinus Temple was built in place of the Bait-ul Maqdis. It is believed that this temple was destroyed after Constantine accepted Christianity.

It is clearly stated in the first verse of Surah Al-Isra' (Journey by Night) that Prophet Muhammad was brought to the first kiblah of Muslims, the Al-Aqsa Mosque before heading for his miraculous Miraj journey. Al-Aqsa Mosque remained the location for the kiblah for around 16-17 months following the Hijra (Journey from Mecca to Medina). This shows the value placed on the Al-Aqsa Mosque. The Prophet Muhammad had stated, years before Jerusalem had been conquered, that this mosque was one of three which must be visited for the purposes of worship (following the Masjid-i Haram in Mecca and the Masjid an-Nabawi in Medina). The hadith from the Prophet, which state the virtue of prayers performed here are 50,000 times more than those performed at home alone, only reinforce its significance. Omar (pbuh), upon receiving the key to the city of Jerusalem, labored personally among the rubbles that had been left from the era of Christianity, leading the congregation in prayer in the south of the temple and then having a masjid erected there.

According to a narration from Yakubi, despite the fact that the Umayyad Caliph Abdul Malik Bin Marwan is credited with construction of Masjid al-Aqsa for the second time through the use of seven years of taxation revenue, according to the ancient Greek records belonging to Qurra ibn Sarik, who served as the Governor to Egypt from 90-96(709-714), it is understood that it was Walid I who had the structure constructed. The building was extremely damaged following the earthquake that took place in 130 (747-48) and this building was only renovated during the time Abu Jafar al-Mansoor (754-775) after the gold and silver coatings on its doors were taken down and cashed in for money. The structure was partially destroyed again in 158 (775) and renovated by Mahdi-Billah.

jamalt's picture
Prophet Muhammad Pbuh

Prophet Muhammad Pbuh ascended to the lowest heaven from a rock. This rock can be found inside the Dome of the Rock, the most famous symbol of Jerusalem. It should not be confused with the actual Masjid building, which is on the other side of the Al-Aqsa compound. The entire precinct is the masjid, but many separate buildings exist there. It is important to remember that although the Dome of the Rock is inside the Masjid compound, it is not Masjid Al-Aqsa and it is not the place of prostration where Prophet Muhammad led the previous Prophets in prayer. From the rock, now covered by the familiar golden dome, Prophet Muhammad pbuh ascended to the lowest heaven in the company of Angel Gabriel pbuh.

watchman's picture


Ok......Dr.Professor Bozkurt...said all that did he......well ,I'm not surprised...but I'll come to him in a while.....

First let me deal with the pith of your post......

In our world....that is the real world....the world where it takes a brick to be placed upon another brick or a stone to be placed on another stone in order to create a building.....

not some vague idea that a currently empty site that used to contain a certain structure prior to that structures destruction ,does in fact still contain that structure even though it was demolished and removed centuries before.....

No in the real world the site of the LATE Temple in Jerusalem was empty,abandoned ,derelict during the lifetime of the prophet of Islam.......thus rendering any claim he may have made to have seen buildings on this site to be fallacious ,false ,incorrect ,impossible.....or even a straight lie. Regardless of what Al Sidduiqi may or may not have said....

Your quoted "historian" seems to accept the Temple destruction by the Romans...but then (he or you...its hard to tell who is making the claim then goes on to say that Al Aqsa was commenced by Walid...where the sources I access say it was under the Caliph Umar that construction was begun....

In either case it was after the death of mohammed.....thus rendering it impossible for mohammed to have laid eyes upon it let alone his foot.....and ,of course he did claim to have seen it....even to counting the windows and doors as I recall....(unless you wish to modify your stance to say that it was all a dream....perhaps a divinely inspired vision....but that aint what your book says...)

Now to your "historian"....

Nebi Bozkurt wasn't it ?

Professor Doctor Nebi Bozkurt......I believe.....

As far as I have been able to find out he isn't an historian.......he is a theologian......here is his resume...

Nebi Bozkurt was born in Mersin Silifke on 10 January 1950's. His father's name to Abraham, the name of the mother turns.

Theologians, Prof. D; He graduated from the High Islamic Institute. Master's degree and doctorate in the theology department at Marmara University Institute of Social Sciences yaptı.i I worked as preachers and teachers. In 1982 he became an assistant at the High Islamic Institute. The institute took the name connected to the Marmara University Faculty of Theology. This faculty associate professor in 1997, became a professor in 2003. Religious Foundation of Turkey made writing material in the Encyclopaedia of Islam and published 3 books. Green Crescent painting competition organized by the Istanbul first, in the drawing competition held among teachers bulunmaktadır.i level in second place in Mersin Booth speaks Arabic and English, is married and has 3 children."

So a theologian.....
I wonder why you tried to imply otherwise.....
perhaps you have access to some other sources than I have ,If so I'd be obliged for a link...

jamalt's picture
When the Quran refers to Al

When the Quran refers to Al-Aqsa Mosque it refers to the farthest ""Place"". From Makkah. To Al Aqsa (That was there). And Muslims also prayed towards Al Aqsa as Qibla for several months in time of Prophet Muahmmad Pbuh before were asked to pray towards Kaaba Haram Shareef. That means its a holy place for muslims and that's why journey took from there. Now Al Aqsa was there thousand years ago and still exists. And The place existed if there were even reconstructions or so. Details of that are not given. Quran tells us about the place where there is masjid e aqsa the farthest place.

We have to keep in mind that it was a miraculous journey and our human mind can only think to a point. But also remember that it was a miracle from none other than Allah. By Will and power of whose Moses Pbuh was able to cross between seas. By Will and power of whose Jesus Pbuh did so many miracles. By Will and Power of whose man was created and sent to the earth. By will and power of whose not a leaf falls down from a tree.

There are more than one Phd's that talk about it. The Hadith is also there which narrates:

According to common points of narrations related to the miraj in Buhari and Muslim, the event occurred as follows: One evening when the Prophet Pbuh was at the Kaaba in the place called Hijr or Hatim (in some reports he was in between sleep and wakefulness), Gabriel came. He opened the Prophet's chest and, after washing it with zamzam water, he filled it with faith and wisdom and then closed it. He mounted the Prophet on a steed called Buraq and took him to Beytulmaqdis. When the Prophet prayed two raqats of prayer and came out, Gabriel brought two cups, one full of milk and the other full of wine. When the Prophet chose the cup of milk, Gabriel said, "you chose what is natural," and then he took him to the heavens. In each heaven he met respectively with the prophets Adam, Jesus, Joseph, Enoch, Harun and Moses; finally he met with Abraham peace be upon them all in the seventh heaven where the Beytulmamur is located. When they arrived at the place called the Sidret'ul-Munteha, the Prophet heard the scraping of the pens of the recording angels and he ascended to Allah's presence. Here Allah made 50 times of prayer mandatory. On the return Moses said that praying 50 times a day might be a heavy burden on the ummah and he advised that the Prophet Muhammad ask Allah to reduce it. The Prophet petitioned in the Divine Presence until the number of prayers was reduced to 5 times a day and then continued his dialogue with Moses (Buhari: Salat, 1; Tawhid, 37; Anbiya, 5; Bad'ul-halk, 7; Manaqib, 24/ Muslim: Iman, 259, 262-263; Fazail, 164). According to one report, the final verses of Baqara Surah were revealed to the Prophet during the miraj and the good tidings that those who did not ascribe partners to Allah would be forgiven was given (Musned, I, 422; Muslim, Iman, 279).

Vincent Paul Tran's picture
Jamal, I think phd's can be

Jamal, I think phd's can be some of the stupidest people in the world. citing them as an infallible authority is unwise

Nyarlathotep's picture
Jamal - "here's what a Phd in

Jamal - "here's what a Phd in History said Nebi Bozkurt"

Lying for J̶e̶s̶u̶s̶ Allah much?

sai..'s picture
ok brothers friends ... kash

ok brothers friends ... kash ur question is what is god ... In every religious text it is common that one who created us ... As we r human being till now d most sensible logical creatures on earth... its a very basic question yet meaningful... yes there is something someone which has created us ... d only thing we can get answer on this is by a scientific approach which on this basis or thing has not yet developed... we can't get d answer by scientific approach as it's not yet ready 2 answer becoz we all people r talking about d postulates nd theory... nd d other way is bit strange for some one nd hard one i.e by spirituality coz there r examples incidents that we can get .... even m hindu by religion nd actually its not an religion by d way d term given by d people 2 have a identification... lets come 2 d point u can get it if u have a desire determination to get d truth coz gautam buddha got enlightenment...., swami vivekannanda who was an atheist not by that mean but was in search of truth which he got from his guru parmansha.. raghavendra swami .... there is many thing we can discuss... nd we can we can have a conclusion... m open for d response

watchman's picture


"Details of that are not given.".................Convenient .........

"We have to keep in mind that it was a miraculous journey and our human mind can only think to a point. " ......
So not a actual event then. Not something that happened in the "real"world ,in real time.

"But also remember that it was a miracle from none other than Allah." ........
That would be the Allah ,worshipped at Mecca for many years before Mohammed was born.....one of the 360 pagan idols.......I'll be sure to remember that.....but I'm not sure that it is going to help your case.

"By Will and power of whose Moses Pbuh was able to cross between seas. By Will and power of whose Jesus Pbuh did so many miracles."
You see that is part of the problem of Islam ..... being built upon the sherds of other , older religions......means that when they get debunked.....you get debunked.

"There are more than one Phd's that talk about it."..........
Maybe ,BUT there is only one Phd that YOU tried to use as a misdirected attempt to make an "Argument from Authority"....just for your future reference......

History is the recording and study of events in the past.....

While religion is a system of thought that you would like to be true .......

and Theology is a profession that was created because ........

hey...its better than working for a living.

as you are disappearing more and more into the "Rabbit Hole" of metaphysical realms I think this would be a good place to leave our exchanges.
I would like to thank you for your participation in my little exercise.......you have performed exactly I expected.....thank you again.


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