What Would Constitute As Evidence

99 posts / 0 new
Last post
Mike Mclees's picture
You stated that you changed

You stated that you changed your mind. what made it possible for you to change your mind. What makes it possible to decide right or wrong? what is good or Bad? things come from your mind but where did you get your mind. It came from your brain. It is possible for someone to say something that would change mind on something, but that decision to change your thinking came from your own mind which is your brain.
There is nothing more fascinating then your brain and the brain of every living human being. Even the animals have a brain but not like your brain. Just think of all it does..Tt makes it possible to read what I'm saying or what you say and think.. tt was your brain that by choice decide there is no God.
Now I would like to tell you something even more fascinating. You are flesh and blood and a personal person we with all your own characteristics just like every other person. For your sake we will say you came from ( 0 ) Nothing. Most people would say that nothing produces nothing. That not true.. Maybe you are married and have a son or daughter. All of you came from the big (0).We all from something in us go through the period male and female attraction. Call it what you will but with out this we would not be here. So when the man comes together with the women he produces a seed, but before the seed was a seed there was nothing, Now our flesh produces a seed. Now doctors and scientists may no certain mechanics that goes into it but before that was nothing.. Now comes the neat part O made a something and that something is the seed of life, which the man plants that seed in the most fascinating laboratory called the womb of the wife where it is nurtured for nine months. In this time an itsy bitsy person came from {0) through an amazing transformation. It begins to grow. with time it forms little bones with muscle and tissue, not to mention this thing which is your brain. time this child is born from that laboratory and becomes and individual. Still it must be nurtured to manhood where just like you, makes his own choices of belief. All this came from the big (0). Every living thing from plants, trees, microbes, animals, fish, and the whole human race came from the great creator whom you see as a delusion which is nothing.

Aside from this nothing we see a great universe that still has the great thinkers of the world still scratching their heads. because some how something came from nothing.

Cognostic's picture
@Mike RE: "What makes it

@Mike RE: "What makes it possible to decide right or wrong." The cultures we all grow up in. How is that not blatantly obvious?

RE: " Where did you get your mind? " The mind is an emergent property of the brain just like hearing is an emergent property of the ear or taste is an emergent property of the mouth. People born with ears that do not work, can not hear. People born with mouths that do not work, not taste. People born with brains that do not work are absent a mind. Not everyone with a brain is lucky enough to have a mind.

RE: "Even the animals have a brain but not like your brain. " Explain Feral Children then. With no social context a brain left alone in the wild to survive IS an animal brain. You are confusing potential with reality.

RE: "It was your brain that by choice decide there is no God." Belief is not a choice. One of the reasons Pascal's Wager is a big fail. "I cannot, strictly speaking, choose to believe something. In the philosophy classes I teach, I often discuss the nature of belief with my students, and point out our lack of direct control over our beliefs. For example, if I tell you that I will pay you $1,000 if you sincerely believe that a pink elephant is flying outside your window right now, you cannot do it. You can say you believe it, you can even want to believe it because you'd like the extra cash, but you cannot in fact will yourself to believe it. Why not? Because there is no evidence for the claim, and a mountain of evidence against it."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/ethics-everyone/201109/choosin...

RE: " For your sake we will say you came from ( 0 ) Nothing". You would be Wrong. I came from my parents and the joining of a sperm cell with an egg cell. Are you really that dense? How did you determine "nothing" is real?

RE: "So when the man comes together with the women he produces a seed," Are you referring to plant life? People do not produce seeds.

RE: " the whole human race came from the great creator " Have you any valid evidence at all for this assertion?

*PLEASE DEMONSTRATE NOTHING. WHERE IS THIS NOTHING YOU SPEAK OF AND HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS THERE? WE KNOW WHERE SPERM AND OVA COME FROM. WTF ARE YOU ON ABOUT?

Mike Mclees's picture
Sir would alright to just

Sir would alright to just address you as Cog. for short. Culture is a way of life that influences a persons belief still you can make a choice about continuing to embrace it or changing for another belief. Isn't that what you did? Like a cake half vanilla or half chocolate. Its all one cake but when it comes to what flavor you want to eat that becomes your choice. Is that true or not? if you have made up your mind about something that is a choice you make weather it be right or wrong. Now not are our choice but a choice was made for you to even be here. It about a seed, a tiny cell. Who made it possible for it to there when wasn't there before. Nothing ! That is a truth and it is the truth of all living things on the planet.

I am going to talk about but that was not the point I was getting at. Both your mind and mine was a part of what grew from a a seed planted in our mother womb. .Isn't that the truth And is it not the truth that the tiny little seed planted came from our father. My point is that before the seed it was nothing. Without trying to be to icky about this where did the seed of life come from. how was it formed and how did it get there. That is my real question to you or anyone that is reading this. .

Cognostic's picture
@Mike Mclees: RE: "You can

@Mike Mclees: RE: "You can not make a choice to believe."

Under what circumstances can you belief something that you are not convinced by? I have come across a lot of discussions where people end up calling belief a choice. I always ask them to choose to believe it's not. They can't.

POOR ANALOGY: "Like a cake half vanilla or half chocolate. Its all one cake but when it comes to what flavor you want to eat that becomes your choice." Through past experience you have already made conclusions about which flavor you like, which color you like if you have never tasted cake before. Or you make the choice with no belief at all having no experience of color, shape, flavor or any other criteria.

RE: "Now not are our choice but a choice was made for you to even be here."
No choice at all was made for me to be here. My parents had no idea at all whether they would have a girl or a boy. They knew nothing at all about my personality. There was a choice to have sex and then have a baby and that is about it. It had nothing what so ever to do with the fastest swimming sperm of the bunch and the one egg that happened to get in the way,

YOU HAVE CONVERTED THE TOPIC TO CHOICE AND NOT BELIEF. Lets get back to BELIEF. People make choices. Sometimes based on belief and sometimes for no reason at all.

RE: "And is it not the truth that the tiny little seed planted came from our father."
WHAT??? Are you saying you have no idea how babies are made? Please demonstrate how a woman has a baby without the help of a man's sperm. Women have eggs and men have sperm. The sperm fertilizes the egg and if all goes well a baby will grow. I have no idea at all what you are talking about.

RE: "seed of life come from." I have a better question....... WHAT IN THE HELL IS THE "SEED OF LIFE?" I have never seen one. What is it? Where is it? What does it do? AND MOST IMPORTANTLY - how do you know about it and why did my biology book miss it?

YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DEFINE YOUR TERMS IN UNDERSTANDABLE ENGLISH.

Cognostic's picture
@Mike Mclees: If you use

@Mike Mclees: If you use the @ in front of a person's name. It will make the name stand out. That way you can address several people and each will know who you are talking to. "Cog" is fine. That seems to be the trend.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Oh look everyone a new sock!

Oh look everyone a new sock!

Old argument...but A NEW SOCK!

Nyarlathotep's picture
Old man shouts - Old argument

Old man shouts - Old argument...but A NEW SOCK!

I'm speculating that this non-sense we are seeing is a foreshadowing of what is to come. What religion will look like in the future.

We need a name for them. I think I've heard them referred to as salad-shooters. A machine that just generates (word) salad on demand.

Tin-Man's picture
@Nyar Re: Salad shooters

@Nyar Re: Salad shooters

Interesting... Ya know, it is something I have been pondering off and on in regards to the "theist" trolls that have visited us more and more lately. Mainly, I've been wondering...

1. If the individuals are truly theists (whether Christian, Muslim, whatever...), then how in the world do they justify their deceitful lunacy, and how do they even remotely suppose their tactics will in any way convince us theirs is the "Path of Righteousness"? After all, as we all have seen, if some of these folks are truly "faithful god loving theists" as claimed, then they are some of the most deceitful and dishonest fuckers I have ever known. Why would anybody want to be a part of that?

And...

2. If these people are really just trolls with no religious affiliation whatsoever (which I suspect many/most are), then what in THE HELL are they gaining by coming here and being total asses? How sadly pathetic are the lives of these people that the only purpose they have in this world is to disrupt activities on a site that likely has no meaning to them in the first place? It almost makes me feel a bit sorry for them.... (almost). Still, very perplexing... *shaking head in bewilderment*...

Mike Mclees's picture
You stated that you changed

You stated that you changed your mind. what made it possible for you to change your mind. What makes it possible to decide right or wrong? what is good or Bad? things come from your mind but where did you get your mind. It came from your brain. It is possible for someone to say something that would change mind on something, but that decision to change your thinking came from your own mind which is your brain.
There is nothing more fascinating then your brain and the brain of every living human being. Even the animals have a brain but not like your brain. Just think of all it does..Tt makes it possible to read what I'm saying or what you say and think.. tt was your brain that by choice decide there is no God.
Now I would like to tell you something even more fascinating. You are flesh and blood and a personal person we with all your own characteristics just like every other person. For your sake we will say you came from ( 0 ) Nothing. Most people would say that nothing produces nothing. That not true.. Maybe you are married and have a son or daughter. All of you came from the big (0).We all from something in us go through the period male and female attraction. Call it what you will but with out this we would not be here. So when the man comes together with the women he produces a seed, but before the seed was a seed there was nothing, Now our flesh produces a seed. Now doctors and scientists may know certain mechanics that goes into it but before that was nothing.. Now comes the neat part O made a something and that something is the seed of life. The man plants that seed in the most fascinating laboratory called the womb of the wife where it is nurtured for nine months. In this time an itsy bitsy person came from {0) goes hrough an amazing transformation.. It begins to grow. with time it forms little bones with muscle and tissue, not to mention this thing which is your brain. With time this child is born from that laboratory and becomes and individual. Still it must be nurtured to manhood where just like you he or she makes his or her own choices of belief. All this came from the big (0). Every living thing from plants, trees, microbes, animals, fish, and the whole human race came from the great creator whom you see as a delusion which is nothing.

Aside from this nothing we see a great universe that still has the great thinkers of the world still scratching their heads. because some how something came from nothing.

Attachments

Attach Image/Video?: 

No
Cognostic's picture
@Mike Mclees: The person

@Mike Mclees: The person you are talking to probably knows who you are referring to but the rest of us are in the dark.

Go down to the bottom of the post. Push the edit button. Go into the post you just made and add " @Name " at the front of your post. By doing so, everyone will know who you are addressing and the person you are addressing can respond.

Mike Mclees's picture
I believe you do know and

I believe you do know and probably most here know if they read the post. My question is to you or any others here that believe as you that there is no supreme creator called God, so he is to you just an illusion which means (0)or not exist . I would like if you will, give or present support for his non existence, Having read my post. my question to you is where did the sperm cell that made you come from? It must have come from before it became a sperm cell. I believe you are an intelligent being and smarter than the ape in that picture which I hope does not represent you.. He probably doesn't know the answer either.

LogicFTW's picture
because some how something

because some how something came from nothing.

How do you know something came from nothing? Let me answer that for you. You don't.

And no one can answer that question for you. Because we all very likely have the complete lack of ability to answer that question, at least in this current point in human technology.

Anyone that does try to answer that is lying. This includes all the "god" claims.

 
 

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Cognostic's picture
RE "Because some how

RE "Because some how something came from nothing." "How do you know something came from nothing?"

Let me answer that for you. You don't!

I'll go one better. How do you know there is anything at all called nothing? Let me answer it for you ---- "You Don't" No one has ever found an example of nothing.

David Killens's picture
@In Spirit

@In Spirit

"Again , like David you are holding on to preconceived notions of what this world tells you God is."

Geez, bud it is a shame we are on opposing positions. If I ever met you, I would not have any problem buying you a beer and having a friendly chat.

Of course I carry preconceived notions, but I will explain where they came from. I was raised in a christian family, my father was a Master Mason, my mother Worthy Matron in Eastern Star. It was not a fire-and brimstone brutally enforced branch of christianity, more casual and liberal. We attended church each Sunday, I remember Sunday School in the church basement, and pot luck dinners. I recall that liberally strewn around the house were children's books with biblical tales. David and his coat of many colors was my favorite.

I do not state this in anger, but maybe, just maybe you are applying the "no true Scotsman" fallacy on me?

In Spirit's picture
David Killens

David Killens

I understand where you're preconceived notions came from as they have for many others including myself. I too was raised christian. I get that.

In my case I did something special just for myself in my 30's. I decided to stop believing in anything written on that topic. I declared it all false and would not waste any more time trying to be convinced of any of it and that if anything else was out there beyond mankind then it would have to contact me and here in lies what I agree with in Cognistic's words " He can pop on down and convince me himself"

I refuse to believe in any deity or ET declared by any human being, be it a theist or scientist. That is the bar I have set to any intelligent life form out there.

I'll have that beer with you anytime David. If you're ever in Montreal let me know. I'm sure we can find many other things we have in common.

BTW thanks for pointing out the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. It taught me something new and was not aware that I am guilty of that at times.

David Killens's picture
@In Spirit

@In Spirit

"I refuse to believe in any deity or ET declared by any human being, be it a theist or scientist. That is the bar I have set to any intelligent life form out there."

This we have in common. I believe that the odds of life on other planets is very high, but only just simple organisms. When I discuss life many assume Klingons. IMO the odds of intelligent life is incredibly low. And if it is out there, most likely it will be so distant in all means of measuring, it may as well not exist.

Hmm, I have not enjoyed a Brador in decades. Who knows, I hope to attend the Montreal GP sometime, and since I live just down the road in Toronto......

p.s. Go Leafs ;) But we still need a better goaltender.

In Spirit's picture
David Killens

David Killens

Brador? I have totally forgotten of that brand but willing to retry it again. Well if you do come down for the Montreal GP let me know. I might be able to arrange a few freebies for you. Free parking for sure and perhaps a free downtown airbnb for one night if they are not all booked. I was planning on going down to Toronto within the next 2 years to visit family and and meet up with a blues musician and see his show. One way or another we can tap those Brador bottles.

Cognostic's picture
@In Spirit: "lies what I

@In Spirit: "lies what I agree with in Cognistic's words " He can pop on down and convince me himself"

And yet you argued that he could not do that as it was a preconceived notion. I reiterate, one of us has a preconceived notion and one of us does not. One of us is putting man made presuppositions and limits on this god thing and one of us is not. In light of your previous comment, this one makes no sense to me at all.

Randomhero1982's picture
Some interesting points.

Some interesting points.

So it would appear that it would still as always have to be objective and empirical.

And it would have completely independent from any of the religious shit heads that peddle the garbage we've become accustomed too.

I did think my analogy above of the book or text of some sort, made from matter not know to earth, was reasonable.

But in hindsight, I think just sways me toward some intelligent extraterrestrial life in the cosmos, rather than some bearded pan dimensional wizard.

I'm stumped!

Jo's picture
@ Randomhero1982

@ Randomhero1982

I note your use of the word “evidence” when asking about God. On the surface it seems like a fair and appropriate question. Evidence is a good thing, but is it how you answer all questions? I suspect you are meaning scientific evidence. If so then you are presupposing that science can answer the question? Is it rational to ask the natural to explain the supernatural? Is your question objective? Are you looking at evidence provided objectively?

Would you use the word “evidence” to describe your reasons for marriage, children, art, beauty, morality, goodness, and fairness? Wouldn’t asking for evidence seem wooden and inappropriate in some situations? Are you implying that empirical evidence is the only way to truth?

When someone ask for evidence of God such as below, they are asking amiss.
Walk across my swimming pool.
Limbs grown back.
Name written in the sky.
Object made of unknown material.

They are essentially saying that they will have faith in God, when faith is no longer required.
They will believe, when it has been proven, and belief is no longer required.
I question if they really would concede God when overwhelming evidence has been provided.
Since they do not accept any of the currently available evidence, why should we expect more will tip the scale? Would it be a continuous moving of the goal post?

Maybe the problem is not with the evidence?

LogicFTW's picture
@Jo

@Jo

Maybe the problem is not with the evidence?

How do you separate fiction/lies from reality/truth?
Do you just take people's word for it? Of course you don't just take people's word for it!

Easy example: Jo, you owe me 1 million dollars. You can not prove that you do not, so do you just "take my word for it" and pay me 1 million dollars?

Of course not. I have zero evidence to back my claim that you owe me 1 million dollars. It is a ridiculous claim! And should be easily dismissed as such.

Now apply the same basic logic to any and all god ideas with their accompanying religions. (Remember you are just taking people's word for god/religion ideas, you never seen or had access to any actual "proof" for these god ideas.)

Bam!
Welcome to being an atheist. (That is if you actually apply this super basic reasoning/logic you do for everything else to the god ideas.)

Jo's picture
@ LogicFTW

@ LogicFTW

"Easy example: Jo, you owe me 1 million dollars. You can not prove that you do not, so do you just "take my word for it" and pay me 1 million dollars?"
The check is in the mail.
No, just kidding.
I think I addressed this on a previous post.

"How do you separate fiction/lies from reality/truth?"
I start by acknowledging that science is the best way to understand nature.
However, if there is something supernatural, science cannot address that.
I understand that it cannot address all questions, such as to Gods existence.
I understand that you cannot prove or disprove God.

"You are just taking people's word for god/religion ideas, you never seen or had access to any actual "proof" for these god ideas.)"
No, I evaluate the subject independently of other people's word for it.
Of course I don't have proof. It is not rational to ask for proof for something that cannot be proven.
Would you ask for proof from someone who believes God does not exist?
Could they provide it? Would that mean they are wrong.
How do you know I do not have access to nor have never seen evidence for God?
I have both, to my own satisfaction.

Can you prove your beliefs about the supernatural are true?
Does that mean you beliefs are fiction and you believe lies?

LogicFTW's picture
I think I addressed this on a

I think I addressed this on a previous post.

I think that post was a while ago, any hints on where I could find it? If it is less work, can you give a quick rundown on how you address that?

I start by acknowledging that science is the best way to understand nature.

Great, I agree, science is likely the best tool we have so far on understanding nature. (Which is just about everything!)

However, if there is something supernatural, science cannot address that.

Agreed, just like science cannot address questions that comes up in the harry potter series written by JK Rowling. Or any other works of fiction.

I understand that you cannot prove or disprove God.

You are right I cannot disprove or prove directly if there is any sort of god out there. Just like I cannot prove or disprove any idea out there that has no reality/fact to hold it accountable. I can however point to the enormous amounts of evidence that humans made up the god idea.

No, I evaluate the subject independently of other people's word for it.

No you do not. You did not discover your god idea by yourself. You heard other people talk about it, likely, your parents and all your important peers, even if it was not the exact same god idea you currently "believe in" now, you were primed by them to believe stuff without any sort of evidence, aka fiction. You had to learn how to read, write, speak and hear, a communication tool, and you came to your conclusion strictly on what other humans told you. You did not climb mount Olympus and see your "god" for yourself and see him spontaneously regrow a limb you lost. (Or some other similar miracle.) You did not perform careful repeatable test without any sort of bias and then have your findings cross checked with other people performing the same or similar experiments. You got told what to believe, and while you may have amended it some yourself, you still got all your ideas about god from others, obviously without any sort of corroborative evidence.

It is not rational to ask for proof for something that cannot be proven.

I agree, but it is also highly irrational to believe in something that cannot be proven, instead only other people told you about (again with zero proof.)

Would you ask for proof from someone who believes God does not exist?

Nope, because that person is not making any sort of grand claim. Asking for proof of the negation of something that is not proven to begin with is silly/waste of time.

And like I stated earlier, there is TONS of evidence all over that god is a human created idea. Namely the whole: no humans means no god. If all humans suddenly lost all ability to communicate, the god ideas would disappear entirely as soon as those people died, because that's all the god ideas are, an idea, a completely unevidenced idea.

How do you know I do not have access to nor have never seen evidence for God?

Well:
1) billions have tried for thousands of years and all of them have failed
2) if you had access to proof and seen evidence of god, it would be incredibly dishonest of you to withhold that information, especially in this debate, and you would be instantly a world wide celebrity of enormous power once you revealed your bonafide evidence or access to evidence, people would probably worship you as some sort of prophet/hand of god/divinely touched if you actually did. What is stopping you from sharing this profound evidence that billions of other people have missed for thousands of years?

I have both, to my own satisfaction.

Key words there: "to your own satisfaction." That's great, if you have evidence you are happy with, why are you here on an atheist debate board? Obviously I have much higher standards of evidence for these god ideas, partially because, just about every single god idea I ever heard of is patently absurd, ridiculous and there is tons of evidence/history these ideas are actually very harmful.

Can you prove your beliefs about the supernatural are true?

1) It is not a "belief" that I have about the supernatural, my conclusions are based on the available evidence, (of which there is a lot!) So not a belief but a fact based conclusion, the opposite of belief.

2) I don't have to, all I have to do is apply my usual standards of proof that I use everywhere in my life to know I can and should dismiss any and all god ideas/religions to be just as absurd as any other completely unevidenced idea like a unicorn, or odin, or any other claim made with zero actual evidence.

Does that mean you beliefs are fiction and you believe lies?

I am not sure I have a belief, ya know what, I will google the definition of "belief"

be·lief
/bəˈlēf/

noun
1.
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
2.
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"

hmmm...

Okay looks like I got lots of beliefs millions of them probably.

So are they all lies? Well that is impossible. Even your beliefs cannot all be lies. But belief in one particular god idea? That is certainly possible. Especially considering as you say, science cannot even verify any sort of belief in god. But you left out "supernatural" in your last line. That seems dishonest, or was it just a mistake?

 
 

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Logic

@ Logic

"But you left out "supernatural" in your last line. That seems dishonest, or was it just a mistake?"

Well I have a suspicious mind and based on his previous track record.....

Jo's picture
@ Logic FTW

@ Logic FTW

"think that post was a while ago, any hints on where I could find it? If it is less work, can you give a quick rundown on how you address that?"
You admitted on our original post that you were making it up, that I owe you a million dollars.
I could show our post as evidence that you just made it up.
Either way, I am canceling the check. :-)

Did you say that science could or could not address Gods existence or non existence?

"You did not discover your god idea by yourself."
I did not say I discovered it I said I evaluated it.
Did you discover everything you believe or have determined is not believable yourself?
Are you saying I should confirm my belief in God through science?
I did not discover e=mc2, but I think it is true.

"Billions have tried for thousands of years and all of them have failed."
Billions have tried to disprove God and have failed.
Does that prove he exists.

" Would you ask for proof from someone who believes God does not exist? Nope, because that person is not making any sort of grand claim. Asking for proof of the negation of something that is not proven to begin with is silly/waste of time."
If I say that evolution is not true, you would accept that and not ask for evidence?
There is no life elsewhere in the universe.
Do you want evidence or would you just accept the claim?
How is claiming something does not exist not a claim?

" It is not a "belief" that I have about the supernatural, my conclusions are based on the available evidence."
My conclusion about God are based on the available evidence.
I can present the same kind of "facts" that you do.

"If you had access to proof and seen evidence of god, it would be incredibly dishonest of you to withhold that information,
I have given the reasons why I believe on numerous occasion and have not hidden them.

"But you left out "supernatural" in your last line. That seems dishonest, or was it just a mistake?"
I do not understand what you are referring to. Can you expand on it or explain it some more?

LogicFTW's picture
@Jo

@Jo

You admitted on our original post that you were making it up, that I owe you a million dollars.

Okay I have a new claim, you owe me 1 million dollars. I am not admitting that I made it up. What now? Should I expect a check in the mail?

Did you say that science could or could not address Gods existence or non existence?

I said it depends, depends on how well and how you define your god. If it's strictly god of the gaps, then no, science can not address it, because that god as defined is out of reach any sort of science. (Also gotta ask, how do we even know of such a god?)

I did not say I discovered it I said I evaluated it.

So you evaluated other peoples talk and writings, and even with a total lack of evidence, you decided, yep those people idea's of god are for me! That your standard of evidence to believe such a claim is... well... nothing? other than what people (usually with an agenda) told you?

Did you discover everything you believe or have determined is not believable yourself?

Yes, but I took a shortcut and I know I have made mistakes. I did not make this shortcut on the god claims though. I believe most of what teachers and books told me in the classrooms, say a good chemistry book in college. Why? In part I could (and I have) independently verified the results for myself. You are unable to do that with any god ideas. I noticed if you used properly curved glass you can see small things in greater detail, by personal experience. I used a microscope in school and saw things I could not normally see, things the text book said was there. There are countless examples of this. A good education should include skepticism until verified. I walked into the college chemistry lab and saw an electron microscope, I saw it in action, building on the technology to see small things in detail, and understanding how it works, I was able to verify my self what I was seeing, verifying in a small way what the text book wrote. That was enough for me, but if someone wanted to challenge a certain part of such a text, and I felt I needed to check for myself instead of assuming the text book is accurate as it can be in those areas, I could conceivably go do that. Did you know you can right now, on the web utilize a quantum computer? You can even write simple games on it. I spend a lot of time with computers and am fairly knowledgeable about their inner workings, both hardware and software, I am able to recognize building on my knowledge that this is indeed a quantum computer utilizing quantum entanglement, superposition, etc. I can at any point (some taking considerable effort) verify for my self anything I have taken on "faith" or belief that if part of the book is correct, that I can assume the rest is mostly correct as well.

Are you saying I should confirm my belief in God through science?

Well first you need to believe in a god that can be verified through science. Most definitions of god I ever heard of, they define a god where that is impossible to do so.

Billions have tried to disprove God and have failed.

Well yeah, because folks have defined their god where it is impossible to prove or disprove it. God is a human idea, that has evolved into something that is completely immune to any sort of verification one way or another. What that means is its a garbage idea of no substance, just like the garbage idea of a unicorn god that farts rainbows. You cannot prove or disprove it. The only thing we can conclude is the idea itself (god) is garbage, meaningless, a waste of time. Then you have to being to wonder why, why is this garbage idea still around when its meaningless? Perhaps because people are utilizing it to their own ends? (Like a comfortable lie to feel better?)

If I say that evolution is not true, you would accept that and not ask for evidence?

Did you just compare evolution and the enormous body of evidence behind it to the completely unevidenced god idea? Oh my, you did. You might as well compare evolution to the unicorn that farts rainbow god I like to mention. I am happy to ask for proof of evolution, and I can get it, in spades, proof that I can verify my self. This is not possible with the various god ideas including your god idea and my unicorn god idea.

I would ask for evidence that refutes the currently VERY well established evidence of the evolution theory.

There is no life elsewhere in the universe.

How do you know that? Did you mean we have found no conclusive evidence of life elsewhere in the universe?
You do know many scientist that study the area think it is very likely there is life elsewhere in this vast VAST universe right? We just probably cannot find it because the universe is so incredibly vast.

How is claiming something does not exist not a claim?

I did not claim god does not exist, I claimed that god is very likely made up by humans. And I am happy to make that claim because there is tons of powerful evidence it is precisely that, made up by humans.

My conclusion about God are based on the available evidence.

And what evidence is that? I certainly heard of zero evidence of god, and I have carefully looked. I been on these forums for over 3 years and still not one person provided any actual evidence for any of the many god ideas.

I can present the same kind of "facts" that you do.

Can you? Do you even know what facts (out of the many!) that I would present?

I have given the reasons why I believe on numerous occasion and have not hidden them.

Your statement suddenly lacks the word "evidence" and you were just talking about evidence in the line above. Did you think I would not notice you dropped off the word "evidence?"

I do not understand what you are referring to. Can you expand on it or explain it some more?

You wrote:
"Can you prove your beliefs about the supernatural are true?
Does that mean you beliefs are fiction and you believe lies?"

The first line contains the word "supernatural" the 2nd line does not. Why is that?
 
 

▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

Jo's picture
@ Logic FTW

@ Logic FTW

It seems like we are just going in circles.
Maybe this will help me see if I am understanding you correctly.

"God is very likely made up by humans."
If he is very likely made up by humans than it is very likely fiction.
If it is very likely fiction, than it very likely does not exists.

I say that it is very likely that God does exist.

How is one a belief and the other not?
Does science confirm one of the above statements and deny the other?

Cognostic's picture
Jo: What evidence do you

Jo: What evidence do you have for the existence of your God? What evidence do you have that would allow you to assert your God most certainly does not exist? If you could provide evidence either way, we would all be happily swayed in that direction. Atheists do not believe in God or gods.

Jo's picture
@ Cognostic

@ Cognostic

I thought you were 99.999% certain that no God or gods exist?

I agree that Atheists do not believe in God or gods.

Cognostic's picture
Jo: Your inability to

Jo: Your inability to understand and respond to written language is only exceeded by your inane repetitious replies and pathological need for negative attention.

Pages

Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.