What Would Constitute As Evidence

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Cognostic's picture
@Kundalino: Yep. Any claim

@Kundalino: Yep. Any claim that occurs in the natural world can be examined by science. That's how we know prayer does not work. There is no evidence for God or gods. Prophecies are silly. Miracles have no empirical evidence for their occurrence. Speaking in tongues is gibberish. And more. Theist claims do not stand up against critical inquiry, scientific investigation, or logical discourse.

The real problem is this. Science does not have the time, energy, or manpower to chase down and examine every stupid theist claim. With 2000 years of failed apologetics and debunked claims the theists are largely ignored by modern science. However; this is also to be expected as it is not up to science to prove god. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Science can sit back and wait for the theists to make a claim that can stand against scientific inquiry and not be rejected. So far, the theists have been unable to do that.

Ricardo's picture
Is the lack of empirical

Is the lack of empirical evidence the only reason not to believe in god? Are there any other reasons?

cranky47's picture


What else did you have in mind? Are you going to try to argue god into or out of existence? If you succeed you'l be the first person in recorded history to do so.

The problem of evil or apparent divine indifference are compelling reasons not to believe in a benign god , but not enough to declare he does not exist, imo.

I do not believe in Karma or reincarnation for the same reason; no proof.

IMO, the basis of religious belief is faith, (belief in that not seen) not reason or truth . That is sufficient for the believer confident of his faith.


Interesting name. Do you believe in the spinal chakra called 'Kundalini' or its associated yogic practice.? Just trying to get an idea of your world view. It try not to argue with theists , I find it a waste of time. Generally such people tend to be disingenuous, as well as impervious to reason or facts.

Cognostic's picture
@Kundalino: How about

@Kundalino: How about "magic, flying, invisible sky daddies, that exist beyond time and space is just a silly idea?

1. 2000 years of failed apologetics. Attempts to reason or rationalize god or gods into existence.
2. Actual Empirical Evidence that Theist Claims are wrong. Assertions about
prayer, souls, and more have been scientifically debunked. When a claim is said to have an empirical effect in the real world, it can be tested. There is no actual evidence that Theist claims are true.
3. The lack of empirical evidence is actually evidence for the lack of a God. Look at it this way. I have 10,000 years of no evidence at all for the existence of a God or gods. I have hundreds of thousands of failed gods, demigods, spirits, angels and the rest. I have debunked or unsubstantiated claims of miracles; none of which can stand against critical inquiry.

I will make 2 assertions. 1. Belief is allocated to the degree of evidence provided. 2.Nothing is ever known for certain. (This places "belief" on a scale from 0% to 100%. We can eliminate 100 because nothing can be known completely. We can equally eliminate the 0% for the same reason.
Okay, let's begin a legitimate scientific inquiry. I enter a small town at the foot of a mountain. The people of the town tell me that there is a vicious man eating bear living in a cave in the mountain. I ask around and get a whole bunch of different descriptions of the bear; even among people swearing to have seen it. I begin to question. "I wonder if the bear is really there?"
I decide I will find out. I go to the cave. I watch the cave, day after day after day and see no bear.

I decide to set a trap and bait the trap with berries, meat, mushrooms, and other delicious food that bears like. Still no bear. The food rots away.

I think the bear must be smart and does not want me to know he is there. I sprinkle the ground with flour so I can check for paw prints. Months go by and there are no prints in the ground.

I go to the store and I buy trail cameras and I set them up so as to cover every single inch of the entrance of the cave. The trail cameras pick up nothing.

I do this for 2000 years and there is no sign of a bear. At this point, and probably well before, I am pretty damn certain there is no bear in that cave. Still I will be careful. I get my gun and I venture into the cave. Inside the cave I see no signs of a bear. No droppings, no nesting place, no paw prints, no dead chewed animals, NOTHING.
I am 99.999% confident there is no bear in that cave. (But what if it is a magic bear. What if it is a bear that exists beyoned time and space and only visits for 30 minutes on Wednesday nights. What if it is invisible. What if it is hiding outside the cave and has been waiting for me to leave? Bla bla bla bla....

All of these what if's and magic assertions mean absolutely nothing to me. To my mind, and for all intent and purposes. there is no bear in that cave. If you think there is still a bear in the cave it is on you to prove it.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW SCIENCE WORKS. Once an experiment is done and the results are negative, there is no reason to do the damn experiment again. The expected results were not there. We can move on to another experiment. If this were not the case, scientists would just keep doing the same experiments over and over and over and expecting different results.

A lack of evidence, clearly demonstrates, there is nothing there. Might there be a bear in another cave? Sure. But it is not up to me to do the work to prove it is not there. If you think there is a bear in a cave, show me some evidence. I don't have another 2000 years to look for it. Science does not have the time, energy, or man power to chase down every idiotic claim made by theists. The person making the claim bears the burden of proof. If you think there is a bear in the cave, prove it.

AccretedMinutiae's picture
In the end, we could probably

In the end, we could probably all agree that SOMETHING could come around and convince us of its existence. I mean, that sort of thing happens all the time. A stray cat walks in front of a friend and I walking down the sidewalk, we both witness it, both interact with it, talk about it, and there it is... the cat's existence is proven. Easy peasy. So something at least calling itself "God" could come around and prove its existence to us. Whether or not it was the creator of the universe, or was the knower of everything, etc. - that would then be the real kicker, and I am not sure how this thing would provide evidence of that. I mean, we could certainly come to the conclusion that it knew quite a lot if it could rattle off any and all knowledge about anything we asked it - but there would always be that possibility that it is just some really, really tricky alien life-form, with abilities simply beyond our comprehension. So as to the question of what evidence would prove it was REALLY "God" - as others have said, I can't really imagine how that would work.

But, the fact that NOTHING even slightly compelling has ever even just "shown up" sure says a hell of a lot to me.

LogicFTW's picture

It does not even have to be an alien.

Send someone with a modern US Navy fleet complete with nuclear powered aircraft carriers with a few hard drives that contain the bulk of relevant human knowledge back a mere blink in time of human history (150 years) and who ever commanded that fleet for all intent and purposes would be GOD to the people of the world. Heck, said naval fleet does not even have to travel back in time, they could find a very poor country/area that is very poorly educated with lack of modern tech, and just take it over and be that countrie's god. Not like the people there would have any choice in the matter.

And at current rates of advancement, someone from 100 years from now with the top tech of that time could easily do the same to the US, (be a god for all intents and purposes of the word.)

Ricardo's picture


''Interesting name. Do you believe in the spinal chakra called 'Kundalini' or its associated yogic practice.?"

I do not believe !

cranky47's picture


NO I do not believe .

I mentioned it only because it popped into my head on seeing your screen name. I wondered if you believed.

I refer the years 1969 to 1974 as " My occult phase" :

That was a time which started with my first teacher with some Tibetian Mysticism----mid 1970 ,back in Australia, began with reading "Autobiography Of A Yogi " by Paramahans Yogananda, several times. I had a second teacher. . I thought he was a genius. He introduced me to the Baghavad Gita, further reading of the Mahabharata, the Rig Veda and the Upanishads. (no, I never read through the lot)------that phase of my life ended in1977.

Oh,He did teach me Kriya yoga.


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