Hello. So, on our local documentary program, there is a series called "Jesus's code". I don't remember this properly.
They talked about shroud of Turin and blod on it. Now, they didn't present anything new here, but they mentioned (I am not native speaker, so sorry) whipe which ws put on Jesus when some member of Jew council came to get him to Tomb. So, he did put a whipe on his head. It is now in some annex in some French curch. When examined, it shows same blood shaped, and I dont get follwing part greatly, of Either lungs which are broken (less probably, i missunderstood something) or his blody face. They fit same form as shroud of Turin.
Then, one persion talks how he belives that C¹⁴ dating is flawed beacise of this
Any ideas of what they are talking about?
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
It's a medieval forgery, I'm not sure what else there is to say?
I don't care what some chippy theist thinks about scientific methods, when they have a sulk on because it exposes their fakery and forgeries.
If I wipe my ass with a piece of Jesus burial shroud, does that make for a holy shit moment?
No, Does anybody have any idea what is he talking about?
No sorry, sounds like bollocks to me, as I said the shroud has been accurately dated and shown to be a medieval forgery.
Edit: I responded thinking the question was about the OP, not about TM's post. that is perfectly lucid and cogent, obviously.
@CB Re: "No, Does anybody have any idea what is he talking about?"
Ummmm.... If you do not know what I am talking about, how can you answer me with a , "No"?
I do!!! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
Personally, doesn’t effect me. Proving New York City doesn’t prove Spider-Man ...proving a cloth covered a dead guy who lived once doesn’t prove Jesus (unless his DNA is trademarked GOD)
@Code-Beta1234: There are artifacts of the supposed Jesus all over the world.
The Seamless Robe of Christ. The Holy Robe, Holy Tunic, Holy Coat of Thieves, and Holy Coat of Trier.
The Holy Lance.
Crown of Thorns.
The True Cross. Fragments of the True Cross are everywhere.
The Shroud of Turin.
Iron Crown of Lombardy.
Veil of Veronica.
Sudarium of Oviedo
Image of Edessa
the Holy Prepuce
Basilica of the Holy Blood
The Cave where Jesus was born
The Manger where Jesus was born. (At least 3)
You can purchase wood from the real cross.
The Garden Tomb
Two of the alleged Holy Nails are still venerated today.
The Pillar of Scourging
The Holy Coat
The Veil of Manoppello
The relics of Aachen
This is barely the beginning...... There is always something to believe in if you are gullible.
But they said it matches Shroud of Turin almost perfectly, proving both artifacts are form same persion, giving both credibility. So, any ideas which artifact is that?
I guess that during the middle ages (before the Reformation) even educated people had no real idea of distances*** or the passage of millennia. Plus perhaps they were even more gullible than bible belters today.
Hence one could buy :
Breast milk from the virgin Mary
Straw from the manger where Jesus was born
Enough pieces of the true cross to build a small house.
Enough nails from the true cross to hold that house together.
There was also a brisk trade in relics from saints .When I was at school, they had a small fragment of bone from some saint of whom I had never heard,
Italy takes the biscuit I think. When visiting, I found it is not uncommon for old churches to have an entire saint, richly garbed, and mouldering away in a glass case. I thought it was disgusting .
At one church I was told there are two churches claiming to have the head of John the Baptist. The bloke who told me became visibly miffed whenI offered the most obvious explanation : One of the skulls is of John The Baptist as a younger man.
***Apparently Christopher Columbus under estimated the circumference of the earth, and he was an experienced navigator. (I think).
The Shroud of Turin is an obvious fake. Jesus escaped crucifixion and fled to Japan, where he married, had children, worked as a garlic farmer, and died at the age of 106. His descendants still live in the village where he was buried. The following article contains a photo of his grave, proving that the story is absolutely true.
Beware of the Shroud of Turin heresy.
I was going to herald your creation of a sarcastic story of what happened to cheeseass...but...I couldn't....un fucking believable. LOL.
I still think you are awesome for your knowledge.
"any ideas which artifact is that?"
Yes... I have.....
This is an attempt to say that ,what has been called the Sudarium of Oviedo some how matches the Shroud of Turin .
However it it fails to address some points...…
1/ the gospels say that Jesus was wrapped in the standard shroud used by the Jews in the first century....
that is to say TWO PIECES … one for the body and a separate cloth for the head. this alone automatically busts the idea that the
. Turin shroud has anything to do with this story …. it is in fact as Sheldon has pointed out ,a medieval forgery.
2/ the Sudarium does not match the Turin shroud in any way.....
Now ...compare the two.....
So the Turin shroud is the wrong form … as well as being the wrong weave (but that's another point all together...)
while the Sudarium is the correct form but is nothing but an unremarkable , plain but stained square of cloth.
Dated to either 570 AD or 700 AD...... Oh ..and its kept in a Spanish church.
Yes, it is that. And no, they didn't just say look, it is same. They analysed it with computers and indirectly found out that they mathch with great precision
I know they didn't say ,"just look" ….I'm saying that.
and it isn't the same..... one piece of cloth dates from "1260-1390 AD, with 95% confidence." ….. that's 95% confidence.
the other piece of cloth dates from "between 500 -700 AD.
now you say ," they didn't just say look" and "They analysed it with computers" ….. can I ask who are "THEY"?
and what matched..... blood types ? stain patterns ? fabric types ? just how do they match ?
bearing in mind that the two clothes were manufactured at least 500 years apart.
Theologians, with computers, I don't remember.
I see …. So Theologians …… Theologians with computers ….. but not with any names ….. a pity that..... and no chemists ….
no physicists ….. no biologists ..... no scientists . This "programme" seems to be a tour de force of faith .
Any idea as to who produced this epic ?
Isn't the discussion over now?
Nothing on a single global news network, not even the Catholic Herald, that's odd?
I'm going to go out on a limb here, it's still a medieval forgery. .
The c-14 is probably a reference to when Shroud of Turin was radiocarbon dated to the middle ages, the same time period when it first appears in history. In writings of a priest who took the confession of the forger who made it.
After this radiometric dating; some believers suggested that the sample was taken from the wrong part of the shroud (a part that was damaged/repaired in a fire earlier in the 20th century). And that somehow this caused the test to be wrong. But after the embarrassment from the first round of radiometric dating, the Catholic Church has not allowed the garment to be seriously tested again.
As usual, the story is just good enough to convince the people who already believe the fairy tale, and to leave people like me just scratching their heads.
Having a two way bet, the church never officially declared the shroud of Turin to be genuine. Of Course, that did not stop the prodigiously superstitious brothers at my school declaring it was genuine and giving long lectures about the fucking thing. We were also given a postcard of the face, blatantly enhanced.
I don't know about the spear of Longinus/Spear of destiny, which is apparently still around. Of course over the years it has had several new shafts and at least three new blades.
That photo looks like a still from my last colonoscopy tbh.
What's red and black and white and can't turn around in a hallway?
A nun with the Spear of Destiny sticking out her side.
@Cognostic A few years ago, in a conversation with mate late at night;
Me; "Mate, how tall is a penguin?"
Mate: "The fairy penguins we have here, under a metre I think"
Me " Thank goodness for that! I thought I'd just run over a nun" ***
*** The nuns at the school I attended were Dominicans, and wore the full medieval costume of a goodwife, in black and white. Some of the Irish nuns were tiny.
What's black and white and red and black and white and red and black and white and red... A nun falling down the stair case in the monastery.
I see an apple, a fruit of some sort...
The shroud of turnip.
Snicker...”turnip” my human qualities...
@Cranky47: I don't know about the spear of Longinus/Spear of destiny, which is apparently still around.
Indeed it is. I saw the genuine article in a museum in Vienna a few years. I think they also have one or two genuine spears in the Vatican, and there are several in other European cities. In fact there are almost as many Longinus spears as nails. Poor old Jesus must have looked like a porcupine.
" Poor old Jesus must have looked like a porcupine."
Going by the number of nails from the true cross around during the middle ages, they would have needed a special implement to pry him off the cross. AND the poor bloke was stabbed by a fucking great spear.
Didn't Hitler have the spear currently in Vienna?