It's no surprise to hear the common phrase: "Islam is a religion of peace" yet, it really isn't difficult to see that this is blatantly false. But why are we being lied to?
Another popular phrase used by many is "so-called Islamic state". These phrases are completely misleading and anybody who tries to point out the reasons the countries being mentioned are Islamic, you are threatened with being warned about 'hate crime'.
Even in class, I tried to inform the other students that Islam isn't compatible with our culture and the teacher just silenced me!
There must be some other reason why the elite is trying to deceive us other than they are mere cowards. Before 9/11, Islam was seen for what it really is: evil and intolerant.
Why do you think we are being lied to? Do you believe we are being lied to?
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Lisa Williams .....
Who do you see as these "elites" (US)....... are your elites the same as mine (UK).?
How do these elites get their lies to you..?
The elites i am referring to includes the media and people who have authority and power. This is demonstrated in both America and the UK.
Lies are spread in the UK by both the media and Prime Ministers, for example, Theresa May congratulating Muslims for Eid al-Adha and refusing to see Islam for what it truly is. Jeremy Corbyn, who is extremely popular with the young generation, also tries to remove the clear connection between Islam and terror attacks by condemning anyone who can see the clear correlation between terror attacks and Muslims.
The same sort of principle occurs in the US where past presidents describe Islam as being peaceful and giving quotes taken out of context. Bush being a prime example of lying about the true nature of Islam.
One of the biggest betrayals is allowing mass immigration of Muslims into these countries and forcing us infidels to be tolerant of them. Even attempting to speak out against Islam in public is worthy of hate crime and damaging to success of employability.
Lisa Williams ....
"The elites i am referring to includes the media and people who have authority and power. This is demonstrated in both America and the UK."
I see..... so you mean media like Brietbart News & the Daily Express .... and politicians like Trump and Farrage ..... that sort of "elite" ?
"One of the biggest betrayals is allowing mass immigration of Muslims into these countries and forcing us infidels to be tolerant of them."
But why ,if Muslims are the problem are you building walls to keep out your Latin neighbours ....
and in what way have you been "betrayed"..... surely America is the very epitome of an open, welcoming , society....you remember the verse...
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
You remember it ... its inscribed inside the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty ......
When did your own family immigrate into the US.... and where from....?
.... I suspect you may see me now as an "enemy" ... but I only want to understand your view point...
for instance you speak of " the clear connection between Islam and terror attacks " in particular the attacks in the US. ... I wonder where you found this "clear connection".
It seems as though I have been a little vague when talking about the media. I was referring to the most mainstream media which, of course, includes the BBC. In fact, most of my anger is aimed at the BBC.
Politicians such as Hilary Clinton and Jeremy Corbyn are guilty of lying to the public about Islam. Trump made a huge progression (or attempted progression) by trying to suspend Muslim immigration from some Islamic countries.
I'm not entirely certain about what you mean by "if Muslims are the problem are you building walls to keep out your Latin neighbours..."
I agree that some parts of America can be deemed open and welcoming, but that's besides the point. Islam encourages the very opposite of this and societies forced to accommodate this religion have been betrayed. Islam opposes democracy and Western values. It is written in the very heart of Islamic scripture.
I do not see you as an "enemy", however, I can't tell if you're joking about finding a "clear connection" between Islam and terror attacks. Surely this is self-explanatory?
I'm glad you do not see me as an enemy...but I am not joking about your "clear connection"..... it is not self explanatory...at least not to me...that's why I ask for clarification. What do you see is the "self explanatory" link between Islam and terrorism.
Also .. you say ,"Islam opposes democracy and Western values. It is written in the very heart of Islamic scripture."....
Now .. there you say " It is written in the very heart of Islamic scripture". ..... can you show me where Islamic scripture mentions democracy or western values.
Can you quote me the lies you say that Clinton &/or Corbyn have promulgated about Islam ? (one or two will do.)
"In fact, most of my anger is aimed at the BBC." ..... Ah then could you please point me to any BBC stories that have provoked your ire.
"I'm not entirely certain about what you mean by "if Muslims are the problem are you building walls to keep out your Latin neighbours..."
What I meant was ... If Islam is the major problem and as you indicated the Moslem bans have not been fully implemented then why is the US mainland not awash with Islamic terrorist attacks ?
Secondly if Islam is the major problem ,why is the Mexican border being sealed ? Islam is an idea....and walls do not keep out ideas.
Sorry...just realised I missed something...could you tell me about your own family...where they came from and when.
" Even attempting to speak out against Islam in public is worthy of hate crime and damaging to success of employability."
No it's not, this simply isn't true, but there is a world of difference between criticising religious ideas and making bigoted blanket condemnations of people who identify as members of that religion. The simple fact is that violent religious extremists are a minuscule minority, and the threat is blown out of all proportion by a disproportionate amount of media coverage. The vast majority of Muslims are no threat to anyone, just as most Christians are decent people despite what their bible actually says. The ideas in Islam that are dangerous exist in most other religions, and certainly the bible is at least as blood drenched and violent as the Koran. Criticising religious ideas and religious claims is very different to the bigotry of using negative stereotyping to denigrate Muslims in general.
Unfortunately opportunistic racism uses extremism to voice their bigotry masquerading it as legitimate criticism of Islam. It doesn't help that any criticism of Islam is often leaped upon by some who dishonestly label it "racist" with terms like Islamophobic. A pointless phrase that tells us nothing about what is being criticised or why.
The point is that Islamic extremists want an extreme knee jerk reaction, they want to provoke conflict from others, not just inflict it themselves.
You are conflating terror attacks with Muslims, yet this is not true of the vast majority of Muslims. They may decry violence despite the teachings of Islam, but this doesn't justify labelling people as terrorists who wouldn't ever dream of harming another human being.
Condemning the religion is very different from condemning all its adherents.
You sound like an atheist version of SFT to me. It's enough to condemn violence unequivocally, and those who use it to spread terror and their ideology.
Specific condemnations of religious doctrine, and those who preach it is fine. Generalised derogations of all Muslims will be seen as nothing but bigotry, and rightly so IMHO.
As for lies, people offer conflicting opinions, I can't speak to anywhere else but no.one is forcing anyone in the UK to accept a particular viewpoint. There are however consequences to preaching hate, and again rightly so in my opinion. As there is a marked difference between condemning specific religious doctrine, or the actions of specific individual, and blanket hate speech of all adherents of a religion. Demonizing entire demographics in this way is dangerous bigotry.
It's odd but in these threads I will one day have theists like SFT accusing me of hatred and bigotry, then on another day I'll have people who are spreading hatred and bigotry attacking me a deluded liberal.
They never seem to notice each other or the irony.
Not sure I understand your usage of elitism. I would probably call them the beautiful people who treasure liberalism for liberalism's sake regardless of the harm it harbors, and protects, no differently than theists do in oblivion. There are lot's of twists such people intentionally put on truths to dismiss them as mere misguided notions. Calling them down for that will simply spur them into damage control and spew even more of their well rehearsed deflections in an effort to keep in the shallow end of the hurt pool. It's best sometimes to assume there are people who possess the logic and good sense to filter out such nonsense for what it is and let the foolish publicly render themselves as they do.
"So called" is used because news sources don't want infer legitimacy to their claims - it's fairly common practice in the media when there isn't widespread recognition.
As for why they often try to deflect any criticism and not sell it as it is - is probably because it's a well established religion in the country. To call it out on its tenants wouldn't go down too well with a small but vocal number of the population. Remember, it's ok to decry one religion, but not the other...
It also comes down to the confusion of followers vs doctrine. It's fair to say that in the Western world, the vast majority of the followers are very respectable and peaceful humans, despite what the doctrines state quite clearly. So people often infer that the religion isn't violent in nature, simply because the followers that they have met conveniently cherry pick the nice bits.
"It's fair to say that in the Western world, the vast majority of the followers are very respectable and peaceful humans, despite what the doctrines state quite clearly. So people often infer that the religion isn't violent in nature, simply because the followers that they have met conveniently cherry pick the nice bits."
Whilst this is correct it's also fair to say that bigots and racists assume that because the Koran contains immoral and unconscionable text, that all Muslims are violent extremists. As we have seen in a few threads here that are little more than reactionary bigotry.
Yeah, it makes about as much sense as saying "Jesus is love".
This clip is apropos from the Atheist Experience. As M Dillahunty says, the caller is a reactionary buffoon.
He's also a liar, since you can criticise Islam in the uk and there are no laws against this so the "police won't come knocking on your door" as he claimed. Unless you indulge in hate speech or try to incite violence.
this is GLOBALISM. and islam is EVERYWHERE. so 30 years ago, most westerners just conceived as the rest of the world as some mix between disneyland and a bunch of resorts, peppered with some rough spots...but once globalism really began to pick up in the 90's, western populations suddenly were face to face with an enormous and complex world they knew nothing about...so every sign of Islams immensity now seems abrupt and shocking..and thus force fed to people not yet use to the demands of a globalist world.
The only true religion of peace is peace. Until we can accurately define peace and argue a successful methodology to initiate and maintain peace, no one has bragging rights.
Hey chimp3 what happened to chimp 1 and 2?
I think Islam believes what they're saying which means they're lying to themselves as much as they are to anyone else.
1. Elite is not the media. It is the 1% controlling the media and major corporations.
2. Islam is the cure to democracy, It is an oligarchic monotheistic mindless religion capable of bringing all of humanity to its kneed. Islam controls every aspect of a humans life. It is the new religion of a race of slaves and the "elite" love it.
3. Islam is not a religion. Islam is a political system of rule disguised as a religion. It is no different than Mao's Communism. It is a belief system that will lead to the destruction of all free thinking beings. It is a return to the dark ages.
Hey Lisa. We were friends last year and spoke on twitter for a long time. Would you like to get back in touch? Good luck with the exams.
Hope you see this haha