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Please show me how I’ve been dishonest, I’ll apologize if i was.
AJ777L "How can anything be fair or unfair in a universe with no objective morality"
Whatever gave you the idea that the universe was fair or unfair? Fairness is a concept based entirely on human perceptions and emotion. I think it's unfair that people get killed in earthquakes, tsunami, forest fires, epidemics, etc. I wish those things didn't happen. But there's no morality involved. When people are hurt or killed through the wrongful actions of other people, our societies try to redress the unfairness through punishment and compensation. Those processes grew out of our perceptions and emotions as human beings.
Where is there any need for your god in all this?
I don’t understand how you can say others can have wrongful actions, and in the same post say there is no objective morality. I’d bet that if you were unjustly wronged physically or financially you would feel that it was objectively wrong. Can you you honestly say torturing babies for fun is not objectively wrong?
@AJ777
I think you're deliberately misinterpreting what I said. If you want to steal, kill, or "torture babies for fun", try it. You will be arrested, tried, and jailed for offending the morality of society and violating the human rights of your victims. That's as objective as the door of the cell they'd put you in.
And they wouldn't try you for breaking the 10 Commandments or the Golden Rule, but for breaking laws written by human beings. It would be the people (or regina in a Commonwealth country) versus you, not god versus you.
But since as you believe societies morals change overtime, couldn’t this action be thought of as moral someday? Hint, if you say no, then you believe in objective morality.
AJ777: "couldn’t this action be thought of as moral someday?"
Do you believe that human nature could change that much? Hint: If you say yes you're probably forgetting that we are mammals.
Have there ever been human societies in which child torture was condoned? The Carthaginians and the Druids of Britain were both accused of that, but the balance of probability is that those stories were Roman propaganda.
You need not look so far in the past, in the U.S. some criminals traffic children as sex slaves. They believe it is morally right apparently. Why is their opinion wrong?
AJ777: "They believe it is morally right apparently."
How do you know? Maybe they just don't care.
You tell me why it's wrong to traffic children.
If we are made in gods image then every human is inherently valuable, if not then we are disposable.
AJ777: "If we are made in gods image then every human is inherently valuable"
As humans we are social animals with a faculty called "empathy." We feel pain and sorrow. We have parents, children, siblings, friends, and we recognize these feelings and relationships in others. To witness pain and sorrow in others, or to cause it, makes us uncomfortable. Let's call that discomfort our conscience. Empathy and conscience would have had great evolutionary significance, since they are the foundation for maternal/parental instincts and family/group bonding. As we evolved and then became civilized, we have refined and codified those capacities into laws and social norms.
That's why every human is inherently valuable and never disposable. The needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the one, except in Christianity. That teaches us that it's ok to sacrifice one innocent man to save humanity from its sins. What a terrible lesson.
Religion is not the foundation for our morality. It's an unfortunate by-product that undermines our humanity and causes otherwise decent people to do evil things. Totalitarian communism and fascism are cut from the same cloth.
Great answer, @Algebe.
That's why every human is inherently valuable and never disposable. The needs of the many do not outweigh the needs of the one, except in Christianity. +100
@jon the catholic
God commanded they throw the babies off the cliff so it's moral?
????
I'm asking you if god commanded babies to be thrown off a cliff would you claim its moral?
No. But I heard some supernatural voice telling me to do this, then I'd know for sure this command doesn't come from God.
@Jon, if you ever hear a supernatural voice in your head, even if it's saying to give all your possessions and money to Angiebot, please, pay a visit to the therapist.
Hahahaha. Rest assured, I will.
So I agree with Angiebot if you hear voices go straight to the doctor... lol
But in all seriousness how would you know it wasn't god? Has he not told people to kill in his name?
@aj777
Sorry I didn't read this nonsense....
EVOLUTION is a fact the theory of evolution is an explanation of said fact
BTW, ask a Muslim if they worship the triune Christian God.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/Bible-rape.html
It doesn't really matter, does it, whether it's man/woman or woman/man from any perspective considering purpose has no place whatsoever to their existence? The challenge to prove purpose is at the heart of the matter. Prove that and you will probably find any further discussions about mankind's existence unnecessary prattle.
It isn't enough to speculate through the claims of the bible, where logic has been disassociated and supplanted by an imagined world that cannot seem to find any correlation to the documented historicity of mankind, to stand as proof. That's the standard silliness of deflection mixed with the dodge of interpretation apologists have always foisted as a front for logic, and expecting to be taken seriously. Fooling no one but themselves is sad enough but to continue the facade when even the theologians have no further firepower and can only fall back on faith alone, which is nothing but icing doubt with hope, and use it to ward off the truth.
It's time to dispense with the bible. It's the only piece of writing apologist have to defend their fear of mortality in the face of a godless reality but use it they do and by actually quoting it. We're at a point that we know man's historicity to be what it was in deference to the bible's claims, thereby invalidating the bible, and yet the apologists cling to anything they can grab from it as a defense. It's not just laughable, it's a platform for the ignorant soap boxers that proves time and again that you just can't defeat stupidity. I know that sounds insulting but it's actually an objective observation that needs to be stated.
Religiosity can find no privilege of defense in political correctness because it's a meme of man against man and needs to be done away with. Man will continue to suffer himself, though, because he's been induced to believe religion is a conventional good and virtuous pursuit. This perspective, more than any other trait, marks his ignorance. The bible is the source of this cranial vacuousness and in and of itself the focal point of morality lost.
So, bicker about gods, male and female statures, but find me purpose for doing so first.
Pitar, you wrote, "So, bicker about gods, male and female statures, but find me purpose for doing so first."
You would, I suppose, have to find your own purpose(s), but I suspect some folks' purposes would include entertainment, brain exercise, curiosity, scrappiness, escaping boredom, learning...the list likely goes on.
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