I'm new to this site. I understand the bible. The audience of the bible was not supposed to be college educated and have the internet. God is not something that can be put into words. Saying the name cheapens the meaning of what is. If you think you could encapsulate what it is in three letters you've heard all your life,your discontent is aimed in the wrong direction. Athiests are closer to understanding a higher level of conscientious than others because you're not satisfied with what you've been exposed to. However, that's where your journey ended. And not searching for your own spiritual content isn't worth any title. People are faithful because they've heard about the name from someone that doesnt need faith. However, that primary source is from long ago and the people assigned to pass along the message weren't apt to carry the wealth of responsibility that they were given because they never experienced it first hand. Like the game telephone. The first person sounded crazy. But they were saying something the second person couldn't understand.
Words are finite and the name is infinite. To try to put into words (a finite tool ) and sunopsize what it is, would only cheapen it and only confuse the audience if they happen to be well educated.
I joined this site to find others that are familiar with what I'm talking about and to help redirect those that believe there is no commonality between everything and that eternity doesn't exist. I'm fond of debate and haven't engaged with anyone that feels strongly about anything having to do with theology since college. I Wana know about the God you don't believe in because I forgot what everyone else is so passionate about.
Thanks for having me.
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I don't believe in the concept of divinity. I don't believe in some omnipresent, omnipotent consciousness that pervades and controls the universe. I don't even believe that we have permeability beyond our own meager existence. Does that answer your question?
A deity invented by nomadic desert-dwelling people over two thousand years ago... Recorded in texts that were handed down, conveniently 'lost' among believers... Cannot possibly exist.
Being an Atheist means I'm able to say that "I don't know", just like Penn Jillette said. If someone asked me: "Is there/are there any god(s)?" My answer would be an honest "I don't know."
But I highly doubt that there are! So strongly in fact, if anyone ever asked me "Do you believe in god(s)?" The answer wouldn't even require thought. It's "No." and no variations therein.
Obviously, "DontSayGod" is a misled, brainwashed believer in religion. "Saying the name cheapens what it is."
Then why do the religious badger everyone with it? "In GOD we trust" is on almost literally everything here in the United States.
So if what you say is true, then your 'god's name' has depreciated in value pretty heavily by now. To the point that I won't even bother capitalizing the word god.... god is non-existent, and I won't suffer some wrath of a sky deity because I say that.
If you aren't an Atheist, get out of the Atheist forums. Just as 'If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen' goes.
First of all, welcome to atheist republic. It's good to have you. As atheists we promote, or should promote open discussion from anyone.
The employment of my rationality refutes any concept in the realm of the supernatural. Having analyzed at an academic level almost all the arguments and evidence available from all directions, I believe that there exists no realm of the supernatural and immaterial. This includes not just religion and God, but also any concept which has an immaterial substrate such as a soul or spirituality. God just happens to be one of these concepts that I think don't exist.
I think the biggest problem with your ideology is the assumption that a materialist has no sense of transcendent purpose or meaning. As emotional animals, humans must find their own purpose in life and strive towards it, because we appreciate the fact that our time is limited and that this is our only life. There is no collective purpose of humanity in the divine sense, but rather individual purposes that accumulate in the direction of making the world a better place.
I think I must also mention that many atheists are aware of the God you speak of as well as the ancient outdated version. I am one of them, and I still think that there is no God.
"I Wana know about the God you don't believe in..."
Hello dontsaygod and welcome. We welcome these conversation but please understand that you are coming to us with a pre-conception of god. Many of us did not make a conscious choice to not believe. We study and what is truth is truth. I would like to address your comment about how we ended our journey. You have that backwards. Life is a journey, religion is a destination. We continue to learn more and more everyday because everyday there is new information that challenges even the things we believe to be true. You "learn" the same thing over and over. This is not education. This is indoctrination. The truth is you don't need to learn the same thing over and over. That's more like brainwashing. You cannot "help" us because there is nothing wrong with us.
Very well put.
I am rather in awe of the sheer lunacy it must take to advocate that one should believe in something because they don't know what it is or understand it, whilst attempting to talk down to people for not seeking that which does not appear to exist by any measure, and stating that the opposite is a better foundation for knowledge or truth...
You sir, deserve a medal, but not in a good way...
To be honest, I'm tired of hearing about all this "spiritual" nonsense. You may as well believe in Dragons, ghosts, goblins, magic, the supernatural, aliens, people who speak with the dead,( for a nominal fee, of course) etc...you get the idea. Anyone can say that any outrageous thing exists once they have made up their minds that it does. People are "faithful" because they have been brainwashed from when they were small children. In Saturdays paper, a Rabbi and a priest answer questions about religion and God. One of their responses was that " faith is to believe without having reason." Of course, because if you bring in the "reason" factor, all this garbage will be thrown out the window!! They don't want anyone to use reason...just accept what they are telling you without questioning anything...disregarding all logic , reason, and proof to the contrary...in other words, be a puppet!! Sorry to disappoint you but everybody goes to the same place when they die...6 feet under...there is no eternity...this is it, pal...enjoy it while your here!!
Yes, just another guy who has taken the very concept of god from the book but then wants to defend him by claiming the book or preachers to be misleading or confused....and trying to get exempted from defending the bullshit in the books.
Most people who say "spititual", often need to be corrected. What they mean is "emotional" in common atheist parlance. If you take the superstitious nonsense out of spiritualism, what you are left with is the emotional struggle of all people to find enjoyment, purpose, and happiness in life. I guess in a way, atheists might be a little "spiritual" if you equate words to the nearest possible match. Anyway...
About the god we don't believe in... That's quite impossible to define. We don't define god. Theists define god, what he is and isn't. It's like... Well, an analogy. Let's say all of the universe, all of existence really... Is a sheet of paper. And you say, where is god? Of course an atheist wouldn't be able to tell you. It's all one thing.
Now let's say you draw a circle on this sheet of paper that represents the universe. And now you say "everything in this circle is god, and everything out of it isn't". An atheist will point out that the circle is an imaginary construct, and that everything in that circle is still part of the universe, and further more, it still affects the rest of the the paper. You understand?
Wherever, whatever, you try to define god as... Atheists observe it to. It's all apart of the universe. We just kinda... Understand the universal nature of it, as a whole. We don't reserve any amount of "reverance" for one part over another. You see? Or is this all a bit overly complex?
What is this "Spirituality" you speak of? I was an evangelical christian for several decades. After a several year "dark night of the soul" and deep depression, the entire time crying out to a petty and vile god, I came to my senses. I am now more moral with deeper "spiritual" connections and experiences than ever before in my life.
I came to understand I grew out of the universe, it wasn't "made for us". I am in fact made of star dust and my body will return to the beautiful circle of life. When our sun dies, my atomic structure will be used to create new stars and new life, as long as this universe exists. THAT is spiritual, beautiful, humbling and ultimately ineffable.
You say "help redirect those that believe there is no commonality between everything and that eternity doesn't exist". I believe in the commonality between everything and I have tangible evidence of such. I don't need to defer that to a magic man in the sky. I will exist for eternity, or as long as this universe exists. My consciousness will die with my body, but what I am physically will reincarnate a billion times into a billion different manifestations of our universe.
I spend a lot of time in the forest understanding I will soon be the dirt upon which I walk. I will become the trees I walk within, I will become the birds in the air, the water that rushes down a river. This is my spirituality. I know what god is, and I found it.
The god I don't believe in sits up there somewhere with Santa Claus. I won't deny S.C.'s existence - because there is credible evidence I can get something from him in my stocking at Christmas time. The promises made by the other guy have never materialized.
Interesting. Basically from what I take from you wrote, God created us ill-equipped to truly understand or appreciate what or who he is?
That would lead us down the road of deism more than it would any other religion.
As an agnostic-atheist, I am more inclined to side with a deist than any other person. They have nothing to prove and nothing to lose. God created everything and left it running as is while he went off sipping a Mai-Tai somewhere else in the cosmos long forgotten about us.
You mentioned very little of the Bible. For me, and many atheists, it is a story book written by men (no women, unfortunately) that might have some historical references to people and places that may have actually existed. But, a story tale non-the less. With some moral values and other values that are not very good at at all. I have never hesitated to even think for a moment that it was written by no other than man with no divine intervention. The Bible is VERY human. Only a human could write it. God (of the Bible) is also VERY human. Hence he was created by man.
What is this "that's where your journey ended"...where did you get that from? How and when did it end? I did not get that memo. Very few of life's questions has answers satisfactory to most atheist. Sure, science has come a long way but it has a HECK of a long way to go. We keep searching and looking for the answers. And that is okay. No answer or a part of an answer or even a theory of an answer is better than the wrong answer, especially when that answer is simply "God did it" without any other evidence at all.
Spiritually, we're all connected by matter and energy. I am in North America and I connect myself through matter and energy to the Eiffel Tower. Or to Mars. Or any where else. So, yes, we all share a connection that we exist in this universe. But, that is not God.
The story so far:
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.- Douglas Adams
You don't know god. You. Don't. Know. God.
God, you don't know. No one does. I maintain that no Gods exist as described by humanity. That is not to say that I can say definitively that no higher entity exists. And yet, it's entirely irrelevant. Any such being would be as beyond us as we are to microbes. More so perhaps. Do we heed salmonella prayers as we reach for Lysol? What then is any religion or "relationship" but delusion and futility? A being of such cosmic nature might even not take notice of our species. You may as well count the sand of the Sahara. We are the cosmic splatter patterns of the big bang. Shadow and stardust.
All Gods are fictional characters.
I don't believe any evidence for a god or gods has been provided. So I don't believe in any god or gods. Humans created the gods. Humans created religion to control other humans.
Welcome to Atheist Republic!
Always nice to talk with a believer, although I will warn you, you will have both though questions (and answers) and (sorry to say) some people who don't think you should be here who will aim to insult you rather than debate.
I hope you will find me in the first category.
I'll try to put my objections, things that need clarifications and maybe even some answers to your text.
"you don't know what God is."
Do you know god? By your own statement, knowledge can only be first hand, every other experience would be tainted by words.
Also by your own words, if you actually have first hand knowledge, everybody will think you are crazy.
"I understand the bible."
By your own admission, it's a tainted source, so your knowledge is irrelevant.
And why do you mention the Bible and not any other supposedly sacred text? Is it simply because you know the Bible, but no other ancient text or is there a reason for promoting that knowledge in particular?
"The audience of the bible was not supposed to be college educated and have the internet."
I agree, the Bible was written by and for people who didn't have very much knowledge of the world they lived in.
"Words are finite and the name is infinite. To try to put into words (a finite tool ) and sunopsize what it is, would only cheapen it and only confuse the audience if they happen to be well educated."
So from what I understand, talking about god cheapen god and confuse the audience?
Is it better if nobody talked about god? (That, by the way, I agree on, but it would be interesting to learn about your motivation why or why not that is a good idea.)
By the way, can you give a short definition of what you mean by 'god'? Just the least confusing bits that won't make you look too crazy, please?
(That was not in any way meant to insult you, but it's from your own words. I'm genuinely interested in knowing this, so we can have a conversation, there is no use to talk about things that we both agree on, or that we both disagree with.)
And I hope you will answer me, but I'm sorry, I can't provide any information about the god I don't believe in, beside the very short notion that I don't believe in any of the god-claims that I've heard about.
Again, welcome here!
It is up to the theist to tell me what god they think exists and why i should believe it before i can make any judgment as to whether or not i think its existence may be possible, and what my belief judgment may be.
Taking it line by line:
> I'm new to this site.
No answer necessary.
> I understand the bible.
This is ambiguous.
> The audience of the bible was not supposed to be college educated and have the internet.
Partially true. It was written and revised well before then internet. However, it was originally reserved for narration by fairly well educated priests.
> God is not something that can be put into words.
OK, so let's stop there.
> Saying the name cheapens the meaning of what is.
This implies that there is or was a value. That is unproven.
> If you think you could encapsulate what it is in three letters you've heard all your life,your discontent is aimed in the wrong direction.
I am unconvinced that this is a thing. Encapsulating it was not on my mind. I am not discontent.
> Athiests are closer to understanding a higher level of conscientious than others because you're not satisfied with what you've been exposed to.
It is unproven that there are "higher levels" of consciousness. How would we measure that? You claim that "atheists are unsatisfied with what you've been exposed to" but this is merely a claim.
> However, that's where your journey ended.
How do you know?
> And not searching for your own spiritual content isn't worth any title.
First demonstrate that there is any spiritual content.
> People are faithful because they've heard about the name from someone that doesnt need faith. However, that primary source is from long ago and the people assigned to pass along the message weren't apt to carry the wealth of responsibility that they were given because they never experienced it first hand. Like the game telephone. The first person sounded crazy. But they were saying something the second person couldn't understand.
This is a claim without much substance or meaning.
> Words are finite and the name is infinite.
This is self-contradictory. A name is a word. In addition, you claimed above that God was not something that could be put into words.
> To try to put into words (a finite tool ) and sunopsize what it is, would only cheapen it and only confuse the audience if they happen to be well educated.
See above. BTW what does "sunopsize" mean?
> I joined this site to find others that are familiar with what I'm talking about and to help redirect those that believe there is no commonality between everything and that eternity doesn't exist.
There is probably no argument here about the existence of eternity. Whether time is infinite is unknowable at present.
> I'm fond of debate and haven't engaged with anyone that feels strongly about anything having to do with theology since college. I Wana know about the God you don't believe in because I forgot what everyone else is so passionate about.
So debate. Make a claim and then prove it to be true. By this I mean use your model of the universe to make a prediction, demonstrate the correctness of this prediction and then submit the experiment to me so that I can test it in isolation.
> Thanks for having me.
"I'm fond of debate and haven't engaged with anyone that feels strongly about anything having to do with theology since college."
This trigger my sceptisism.
You have not answered/debated a single post in over a month.
Necromancy at work!
This is believing garbage. Forget god doesn't exist and that religion is a drag for humanity, here what @DontSayGod say is "new spirituality", "a new way of understanding what God is", at the end a new religion... trash.
If you need a "new spirituality" remember that you just want to change of religion, ask yourself why you think need to have one, because that's indeed regrettable.
I read this same shit with minimal variations of hunters of ingenuous for sects. Repugnant.
I believe in the god of Abraham Isaac and Jacob revealed thru Jesus Christ himself.this is a great time of year with Passover and easter seasons upon us now. I worship and pray to Jesus Christ I`m convinced by both the old testaments and of course the new.the old prepared us for the new, what man was incapable in keeping the laws he was now allowed thru the new covenant.the old sinatic and Abraham covenants couldn`t deal with humanist sin as the bible amply says that bulls and goats cannot take away sins in humans, so the asecond adam jesus Christ did on our behalf.praise him all you ATHEIST stupid people who hold a grudge you think you can outbox GOD bjut your arms are too short to box with GOD you stupid ATHEIST,tell me what can Richard Dawkins do for you when you die.or for that matter right now. he will only poison your minds.
Hi, science follower. Thanks for letting us know your thoughts. You are an ignorant, deluded simpleton who is naive and gullible. I remind myself frequently that there are a great many intelligent, albeit deluded, christians in church pews. Your post is helpful because you've reminded me how stupid most of you are. Thanks again.
I feel sorry for you non believers, the most that you can make of my reasoning is to sound off you think that you insult me, I will pray for you. you are misled and going on the wrong path.you are being deceived by the philosophy of the age. repent now when you still have the chance, repent now and come back to god.Make Jesus your personnel lord and savior. It`s never to late.
He flipped back to a theist!
I think this is someone else. Same picture, but this person is named "science follower." What this person lacks in scientific knowledge he makes up for in irony. If this person is following science he needs to speed up; science is so far ahead he's not able to see it.
Naw, it is the same guy. The forum retroactively changes the name on every post of yours when you change your name. Look at this post, see how the name changed?
@science follower: Don't pray for us, if you want to do something for us, and for you read one history book... or better a dozen,
before there was a history book there was the bible, please pray that you won`t face the judgement of ever loving God wake up before it's to late go to a church this sunday and put your life in gods hands. he will heal you of your ways.Don`t be so arrogant sb don`t let your ideology get in the way of the hardness of your heart. You need a new heart no more stubbornness of things godly.god bless you