Cures for religion- any suggestions?

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M. R. K.'s picture
Cures for religion- any suggestions?

Hello, everybody.

I am new to this site, and very recently joined after a close friend of mine told me about it and showed me when I told him that I need some ideas for an atheist book I’m writing. Y’all might know his name on here as Rohan M.

So anyway, I’d like to ask you folks for some of your ideas on a cure for religion. My book will basically be a collection of different ways to deconvert a theist. It will also be free, and in PDF format. Once complete, I will post a download link for it.

To put it into better perspective, one of the ideas that I currently have is inspired by my own journey to freethought: Being exposed to a few good atheist arguments, followed by thoroughly reading the Bible/Quran/etc.

Thank you guys so much. In my book, I will be giving a ‘special thanks’ to the folks on AR.

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Tin-Man's picture
Hey there, M.R.K.! Nice of

Hey there, M.R.K.! Nice of you to join us. Yes, we do know your buddy Rohan. He's such a little rascal. Quite an enthusiastic young man, I must say. Wish I still had that much energy... *chuckle*... Anyway, always nice to have a new free-thinker in the group.

Let's seeeeee.... How to cure religion.... Hmmmm..... Well, I would tell you to just take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning. But, honestly, that is only treating the symptoms (nagging headaches), not really much of a cure. Too bad it is not that simple, though. Would be nice.... *far away daydream stare*... *wishful sigh*....

Seriously, though, from my limited experience, about the only people you are going to have much chance of drawing away from religion are those who are already having doubts and/or asking questions. Otherwise, the remainder are those who take incredible comfort in their respective faith, and most even beam with great pride at their dedication and devotion to their god of choice. Confrontating those folks tends to just make them dig in deeper to repel any rational arguments you may have. Therefore, in my humble opinion, the trick is to be prepared for those who are having doubts and already seeking answers. And remember, every single one of them will be different. A method that works very well for one individual could very easily cause a different individual to retreat back to his/her faith. Just something to keep in mind.

Fortunately, you are in the right place for some good information. And if I think of anything else more specific, I will be back here to post it for you. Welcome to the AR.

David Killens's picture
Personally, I cannot support

Personally, I cannot support actively acting to change an other's mind. That is an evil religion has been practicing for millennium.

But I do support educating anyone and everyone, to strip away the layers of willing ignorance. And for me, that is pushing people to investigate and think for themselves. For the great majority of atheists, we went "rogue", we started to ask questions we were not supposed to ask, and we arrived at our own independent conclusions. That is my road map.

The only goal I would set out would be to educate and get the other person to begin thinking for themselves. I do not set out with a specific goal, I just hope that education is the gateway to further personal revelations and a more rational and sane person.

Tin-Man's picture
@David

@David

Dang, I like that. You pretty much summed up about the way I feel about it, but you stated it much more clearly than I have been able to do so far. Thanks.

arakish's picture
@ MRK

@ MRK

I would treat religion like the warning on medicine bottles: "Keep away from children."

That is the best method for driving religion into the minority. Make it a prisonable offense to teach any person under the age of 21 anything religion. Additionally tax the churches since they are nothing more than a business, then ear-mark that money for those wishing a higher education.

rmfr

algebe's picture
Just ask them to explain

Just ask them to explain about their religion, how it works, how they found about it, why it's better than all the others. Christians in particular consider their religion the default and never expect to be asked to explain it. So they never really think about it.

Then sum it up for them and ask them if you've got it right. God made the world but evil got into it so he drowned everybody except a bunch of people and a zoo in a big boat. Then it went wrong again, so he made a virgin pregnant and had his own son tortured to death to make things right again. Is that about right?

It's really funny to hear people explaining things that make no sense. Here's an old clip of Bob Newhart listening to Walter Raleigh explain about tobacco and smoking over a phone call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XDxAzVEbN4

Chipperfhu's picture
Ask them to actually read the

Ask them to actually read the bible for themselves and "think" - without a preacher!

That common sense stuff just may work!

Tin-Man's picture
@Dan M. Re: "Ask them to

@Dan M. Re: "Ask them to actually read the bible for themselves and "think""

Heeeeeeey.... You may be on to something here! That just gave me an idea for M.R.K. Go through the bible and make a list of scriptures that most "Christians" have never heard or read. You know, the ones that are not all touchy-feely happy-happy loving god scriptures. I'm talking about the ones that show god's TRUE "love and mercy". (slavery, rape, bashing babies against rocks, etc.) Have copies of that list readily available. Whenever somebody wants to have a discussion about the bible, ask them if they have actually ever read it. Regardless of the answer, hand them a copy of the list and ask them how they explain/justify what is in those passages. Then you can wish them a good day and walk away with a smile on your face.

arakish's picture
Or you can tell them to go

Or you can tell them to go Septic Tank Diving (Tin-Man's Idea) and find God's Nastiest Turd and then discuss it with them.

rmfr

Rohan M.'s picture
Well, other than going

Well, other than going through the Bible, I can't really think of that much else, as has been noted by others on here. This doesn't really seem like something one could make an entire book on.

Oh, and no offense will be taken by MRK for my above statement, because I'd like to make a confession: Me and MRK are actually the same person in real life. I thought that this would be a book-worthy topic at first, but after thinking about it for a while and seeing what others said, I realized that in reality, this'll only wind up a mere essay.

The reason why I created another low-profile alias under a pseudonym was because back when I thought this was book-worthy a few hours ago, I feared potential backlash from the bigoted for what I thought would become the book. And I sincerely apologize for my deception; all this happened because I seriously overestimated the potential for this project. Seeing as I and others on here can't really think of much other than reading and critically examining the Bible, it appears that this may as well be an essay rather than a book, and written under my main account.

When I realized that I had created a sock and lied through my teeth for nothing, it made me feel horrible. This is why I decided to come clean to you now. Please don't hate me for it.

P.S. with my second account, I will later update this post so that it has the actual essay based on the suggestions of you guys. Either that, or I will have this moved to a new post created with this account (that is, if I am somehow able to explain all this to the admins).

Thank you all for your suggestions, and Goatspeed.

Tin-Man's picture
@Rohan MRK

@Rohan MRK

*shaking head sadly*.... Tsk-tsk-tsk.... *shaking index finger*.... Shame on you, young man. I thought we raised you better than that.... *calling back over shoulder*.... GUARDS! TAKE HIM TO THE DUNGEON!... *turning back to face Rohan*... Your punishment will be fifty lashes with a wet noodle, and you will get no dessert after dinner tonight. It pains me to have to be so harsh, but it's for your own good. I hope you learn a lesson from this. And remember to repent. Very important that you repent. Nobody gets forgiven without repenting. Oh, and while you are in the dungeon, please do try to keep the wailing and gnashing of teeth down to a respectable level. Management hates getting calls for noise complaints. And all video games get shut down after 9 p.m. Sorry, those are the rules..... *motioning to guards*.... TAKE HIM AWAY!.... *waving bye-bye as guards drag Rohan toward dungeon*... Adios!... Have fun!... See you tomorrow!....

Chipperfhu's picture
I thought I was wrong one

I thought I was wrong one time, but I was mistaken!

Rohan M.'s picture
@Tin OK, I shall go to the

@Tin OK, I shall go to the dungeons :)

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Welcome home to the AR MRK

Welcome home to the AR MRK

I like your ambition to get rolling on this project and I'm looking forward to seeing your final product.

The thing is that I have a very similar sentiment to David. While I like your premise, I don't like the motivation behind your premise which is to "Deconvert" the theist reader. The problem is in the language itself. I've seen time and time again on this site, new members who are new to atheism. All they previously knew was the "hive-mind" style of the religious community. They believed that they had to convert to atheism as if its a religion and then they later on struggle with the fact that we do not all think the same way and we don't have a shared path to follow to some make believe end. Then later on they post arguments about near death experiences, quote some crazy testimony, run right back to church and we never hear from them again.

If you want your book to be as ineffective as these people's attempts to lead secular lives, then yes. Make your ultimate goal deconversion.

The people that have made progress transitioning into atheism found their way by being encouraged to think for themselves without feeling guilty about it. Religion requires people to feel like they are children. Thus you hear the phrase "born again" being thrown around. Religion nurtures the child's mind to become dependent on a false system of punishment and reward. It relies on fear. They become afraid to even ask themselves if God exists. Is the bible just a story book? Why did Noah bring gay lions on to the ark and if so, how did they reproduce? (There are drawings of two male lions entering the ark it's fucking hilarious)

The point is... I think you might have a better chance of showing people how to think and that they can ask questions without crippling guilt. Suggest that they read more into their holy books rather than what has been cherrypicked by their tax collectors OOPS I mean spiritual leaders.

Just my two cents.

Sky Pilot's picture
According to this article

According to this article churches are dropping like flies =

“Between 6,000 and 10,000 churches in the U.S. are dying each year” – and that means that over 100 will die this week"

"Today, less than 20 percent of all Americans attend church on a regular basis. As a result, churches are dying in very large numbers, and this is a trend that appears to be accelerating. According to Thom S. Rainer of Lifeway, when you break the numbers down it means that “around 100-200 churches will close this week”…"
https://www.infowars.com/between-6000-and-10000-churches-in-the-u-s-are-...

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
It's hard to trust anything

It's hard to trust anything from that website. They are mostly persuasive pieces disguised as infomative pieces and are written with the emotion of their far right staff... not to mention the things they say are false most of the time. Assuming that they got their statistics right, at least there will be a lot of real estate being put to good use.

Sky Pilot's picture
SecularSonOfABi...,

SecularSonOfABi...,

It is always a mistake to bitch about the source instead of examining the content. The content is easily verified by simply doing a Google search.

For instance, there is this article from Minnesota dated July 8, 2018 = "As churches close, a way of life fades"
"Mainline Protestant churches have been hit the hardest. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) in Minnesota has lost almost 200,000 members since 2000 and about 150 churches. A third of the remaining 1,050 churches have fewer than 50 members. The United Methodist Church, the second largest Protestant denomination in Minnesota, has shuttered 65 churches since 2000.

Catholic membership statewide has held steady, but the number of churches fell from 720 in 2000 to 639 last year, according to official Catholic directories. The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis, which closed 21 churches in 2010 and merged several dozen others, is again looking at ways to consolidate church staffing and programs."
http://www.startribune.com/as-minnesota-churches-close-a-way-of-life-fad...

"Christianity CRACKDOWN: Fury as 8,000 churches CLOSED DOWN due to RED TAPE
FEARS of a crackdown on Christianity have grown after more than 8,000 churches were shut down due to petty red tape violations in Rwanda, east Africa."
dated July 31, 2018 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/996983/church-close-down-east-afric...

https://www.google.com/search?q=churches+closing+down&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&...

Of course there is always the opposing view =

"Study: Thousands of Churches Closing Every Year, but There Is a Silver Lining"
12:00PM EST 12/9/2015 Lisa Cannon Green/LifeWay
"America is launching new Protestant churches faster than it loses old ones, attracting many people who previously didn't attend anywhere, new LifeWay Research studies show.

More than 4,000 new churches opened their doors in 2014, outpacing the 3,700 that closed, according to estimates from the Nashville-based research organization based on input from 34 denominational statisticians."
https://www.charismanews.com/us/53715-study-thousands-of-churches...

Both statements can be true. For instance, the mainline church down the street from me went out of business a couple of years ago. After sitting vacant for some months a free-lance group took the building over. It seems to be struggling because the roof needs reshingling. I expect it to fold very soon.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Dio,

Dio,

I stand by how I feel about info wars. Having said that, you are right and I acknowledge the numbers in the article and the journalistic integrity to keep them accurate for the reader.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Diotrephes - The content is

Diotrephes - The content is easily verified by simply doing a Google search.

Then why bother linking infowars at all? I mean if you are trying to establish a fact from a source, why intentionally choose a shitty one, if so much better ones are available?

The only reason to do that (that I can see) is if you don't know the difference. Which is a common problem these days.

Sky Pilot's picture
Nyarlathotep,

Nyarlathotep,

Are you familiar with how some websites link stories to other sites? So when you see a headline that catches your attention you click on it and it directs you to the publicsation that carries it. That is what happened in this instance. The main website won't list all of the pubilcations that have written similar articles about the topic. That is why you use a search engine such as Google or Bing or Yahoo. If you want to know more about the subject than what is in the linked article you can se your favorite search engine to find other articles about it and see if they jive. Got it?

As it says in Job 13:1-2 (ERV) = “I have seen all this before. I have already heard everything you say. I understand all these things.
2 I know as much as you do. I am as smart as you are."

Nyarlathotep's picture
None of that explains why you

@Diotrephes
We know you are a crackpot, I guess we shouldn't be surprised you are citing infowars. I've known since you told us: The word "Jew" didn't exist before the 18th Century.

Sky Pilot's picture
Nyarlathotep,

Nyarlathotep,

I've known since you told us: The word "Jew" didn't exist before the 18th Century.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/jew

Nyarlathotep's picture
Diotrephes - The word "Jew"

Diotrephes - The word "Jew" didn't exist before the 18th Century.

Did you even read what you posted? It cites 1824 as the first (known) use of the word "Jew" as a VERB ("to cheat, to drive a hard bargain").

The article also describes how it was used as a noun in the 12th century, and was commonly used with the modern spelling by the 16th century.

One of the red flags that someone is a crackpot, is when they link articles that they think support their claims; but which actually contradict their claims! This is exactly what you just did.
----------------------------------------------
/e The image below is from a compilation of pamphlets and other short writings, printed in 1729. The part in question is from Jonathan Swift's: A Modest Proposal. You can see the whole thing here (page 17).

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Yes
Nyarlathotep's picture
Here is another:

Here is another:
Three Discourses of Sr. Walter Ralegh, 1701. Read it here.

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Another:

Another:
Remains of Sir Walter Raleigh 1702. Read it here.

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Yes
Nyarlathotep's picture
Yet another:

Yet another:
A practical discourse concerning a future judgment, by William Sherlock, 1693 Read it here.

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Nyarlathotep's picture
And yet another:

And yet another:
The Tears, Sighs, Complaints, and Prayers of the Church of England, by Gauden 1659.
Read it here.

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Nyarlathotep's picture
Here is a funny one; since it

Here is a funny one; since it is in the title, the word you said didn't exit in this time period, exists in big letters at the top of every page:
A short and easie method with the Jews, by George Straban 1715.
Read it here.

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arakish's picture
You go Nyarlathotep. rmfr

You go Nyarlathotep.

rmfr

algebe's picture
"The Merchant of Venice" by

"The Merchant of Venice" by Shakespeare is full of the word "Jew".

Edited to add: See also "The Jew of Malta" by Christopher Marlowe" (around 1589).

Cognostic's picture
Knowledge is kryptonite to

Knowledge is kryptonite to religion. Keep asking questions.

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