First of all, my sincere apologies to COGNOSTIC. I reacted too harshly on his last reply on my topic of "I feel suicidal". I was severely critical against his response that there's not an answer to everything and that bring a change is not that hard, it requires just a will. I feel very bad for writing in such a harsh way, hope everything's cool now.
After 2 days of thinking about his response, I just realized something. It was on the 27th of July that I last posted a topic on King David. In the search of finding an answer for 2-3 weeks, I became super exhausted that I went to the psychiatrist the next day. He didn't help much, just said that I should continue taking medicines and that he "feels" that I'm pretty good now.
On that day, I read a book, "The Art of Not Giving a Fuck" and fell in love with it. I realized that it's possible to ignore things which are useless in your life or are no longer relevant. From that day, 28th July, the useless session with psychiatrist and the discovery of such a life-changing book, I went on a streak of zero fucks given about every religious thought or question I had. I swear, the time after it until the nightmares episode of October, I was in the best state of my mental health. I felt like I could easily live my life free from all kinds of religious anxiety.
My main way of not giving a fuck was to just say, I'm an atheist, does it matter now? Besides, it's all fake, so why should I give a fuck? Then I'd distract myself and indulge in other activities. It seemed like an impossible success in getting rid of asshole david from my brain. I still don't know how I managed to get rid of that bullshit but I did somehow.
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Today, I was boiling milk for myself and since it's winter, it takes around 15-20 minutes to boil milk on small fire here. I used that 15-20 minutes to walk inside the kitchen, pondering upon what Cognostic had said to me and why did I react like a fucked up person as if he had been bit by a fucking dog. Yes, I am not ashamed of admitting that I really reacted badly.
I also thought about the dreams incidence. How I was able to initially ignore all 3 nightmares until I was forced to have a religious discussion with my mom to calm her the fuck down because she was going nuts. In that discussion, I unknowingly shared my dreams even though it wasn't required and since then, the last nightmare of water on arm became stuck in my mind.
What clicked in my mind was this:
BEFORE SHARING OR THINKING TOO MUCH ABOUT THE DREAM
1) I was able to ignore them
2) I did not give too much fucks about what happened and why it happened
3) I did not think too much about the details of the dream and what was going on in it
4) I had very little anxiety which I was able to get rid off
5) Life was under-control and suicidal thoughts didn't even exist
AFTER SHARING THE DREAMS (yes, all 3 dreams were shared)
1) Mom's reaction on the last one caused me serious issues
2) I became suicidal
3) I began doubting myself
4) I started thinking what if this dream means god is true. It was a 24/7 conflict between the evidence I had that could prove god wrong and the crazy nightmare I had, backed up with the reaction of mom. This was a vicious fighting cycle with no end.
5) I began thinking TOO MUCH and, mind you, attempted to FIND AN ANSWER TO EVERYTHING:
-why did I see this dream
-how can i prove this dream wrong
-what happened inside the dream
-why can't i fucking remember this dream anymore, most of it is faded
-did i even share the right version with mom? (I'm 100% sure that I said some things while sharing that didn't exist in the dream
such as I told mom that in the dream I said loudly that if god exists, he'll make this water disappear but I swear on my life now, in
reality, I never said anything like that in the dream)
-i began doubting even more, if what i shared was partially wrong, what the fuck was the actual dream?
-how do i know this dream is fake and does not prove anything religious?
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I'm confused now. Why is it that after sharing the dream with mom, I went from ignoring the dream to thinking of jumping off my house? From living to dying? From top to bottom? What the fuck just happened? Why did it affect me so much?
Guys, I need your suggestion. Something similar has happened before. After I became an atheist, I clearly told my parents that what you taught me was all wrong and blabla. Mom on that day said with a smile, "Ha, I can answer all your questions against Islam".
For 3 days afterwards, I felt like killing myself. I felt like what the fuck? I did so much research and my mom can prove me WRONG? What the fuck? What does she know that I don't know? I'm an ex-hafiz, they never even tried to memorize quran (become a hafiz), so what the fuck do my parents or mom know that I don't know?
On the 4th day, I broke. I went inside my parents room and challenged them to a debate. I told mom to let me know what you know. I will ask you questions, answer them. If you can't, don't ever challenge me again. Mom started crying and apologized said that she doesn't remember anything now and that she said what she said without thinking. She read islam long ago in her childhood and she does not know whether she read about what I asked her or not. Then, dad and mom both agreed infront of me that they cannot compete with me because my knowledge of islam as a muslim before and now as a atheist is still 100x more than them.
Afterwards, I felt 100% fine again. NO ANXIETY or FEAR of anything.
Do I need to face my mom again to ask her about why she reacted so retardedly to my dreams knowing that I'm an atheist and never coming back to islam so why?
Someone told me in my last topic that I should never share a dream with a religious person while being an atheist. WHoever that was, he was 100% right. I made a huge fucking mistake.
Secondly, Cognostic, you were 100% right too in the fact that everything does not have an answer. Dreams are dreams, fuck them, they happen because they happen but nobody knows why the fuck they happen. But we know they prove nothing.
=========================================================================
What do I do now guys?
Should I face my mom and clearly tell her that I don't believe in any bullshit and that i'm never coming back to islam so stop dreaming?
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Should I face my mom and clearly tell her that I don't believe in any bullshit and that i'm never coming back to islam so stop dreaming?
The answer is literally another question: How adamant is the country in which you live about apostasy?
rmfr
Seek3R, could it possibly be that your mother is terribly afraid...afraid that something she was taught, something she has believed all her life, something that has provided answers (albeit incorrect ones), something that has meant community to her might be bullshit? She may be struggling with her own doubt. You may represent what she suspects is the truth.
Her thoughts, fears, doubts, questions are no less profound to her than yours are to you.
I’ve read what you’ve written but even if you were to write 300 pages, not one of us would understand it as you do. So any advice we could offer would likely not be comprehensive.
I’m guess, in the end, I’m just suggesting you cut her some slack because she just might be in a battle of her own over beliefs.
@Seek3R
Unfortunately I did not have time to read over your entire post, (spent entirely too much time on the political topic in a different thread today!) I hope to read it in full tomorrow.
But I did want to leave you with one thought of mine:
Shaking of the shackles of the lie of religion is not something you die for, lose your family over, or get depressed over. Instead it should be something that you LIVE for, build stronger relationships with family in real truth and honesty, and gain optimism over as you are now free and may have played a role in freeing your family.
Is it scary? Yes.
Is it easy? No.
If it was easy and non scary everyone would do it once they discovered the option.
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▮ I am an atheist that always likes a good debate. ▮
▮ Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me. ▮
▮ Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016. ▮
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Hey there, Seeker. Glad to see you are doing better. For starters, "The Art of Not Giving a Fuck" really is a great book. I read it a few months ago, and I really enjoyed it. Granted, most of it was telling about things I already know, but it helped me see them from a different perspective to be able to articulate them more clearly. Plus, the guy who wrote it is pretty dang funny. LOL
As for your issue with your Mom.... Well, my own personal opinion is, "Why confront her about anything?" Why go out actively seeking trouble and turmoil unnecessarily when you already have so many other things with which you are trying to cope? Based on what you have told us, she already knows how you feel about Islam. And that is something that is obviously causing her grief and worry. Why bother rubbing more salt into that wound? If you don't bother saying anything about it, chances are she will not either, because it sounds like it is a very sensitive subject for her that she would rather not face if given the option. So, me personally, I would not bring it up to her anymore unless she happens to ask about it directly. In other words, "let sleeping dogs lie." For me, it was very similar between me and my Mom. She was very religious and relied on her faith for almost everything. And I never saw eye-to-eye with her on any of that, even before I ever completely broke away from religion. Now, did my Mom know this about me? Yes, of course she did. Mom's know things like that. However, is it something we ever discussed? Nope. It was something of an unspoken agreement between us that we never discussed religion. That way, I never had to confirm what she suspected, thereby causing her much sorrow and grief. And she was able to maintain some amount of hope that maybe I would eventually "get over" how I felt and finally start "believing" again. A win-win as far as I was concerned.
Remember, you do not believe anymore, right? Others still do, though. Nothing you can do about that, so why let it bother you so badly? Plus, if my understanding is correct, you are in a place where you are actually risking your freedom/life if you are discovered outside your home to be a non-believer. In my mind, that translates to, "Keep everything at home as cool and calm as possible until I am able to get the fuck away to a safe place." As annoying as that may be at times, you have to admit it sure as shit beats the alternative of being tossed into a prison or - worse - being killed in some brutal manner. Bottom line, in my opinion, is don't go looking to stir up shit unless it is absolutely necessary. And if your Mom approaches you about it for some reason, say whatever you have to say to put her mind at ease and make her feel better. Granted, if you were here in the States or in some other safe place with religious freedom I would likely tell you something different. In your case, however, I strongly suggest playing it cool and laying low as much as possible. Keep your ass safe out there, Big Guy.
Seek3R: No apologies necessary. This is the internet, (chewing gum for the mind.) Feel free to hack away. Nothing is a humerus as someone taking anything off the internet and allowing it to ruin their day. THIS IS ALL MAKE BELIEVE. NO ONE KNOWS YOU, YOUR SITUATION, YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
"I'm confused now. Why is it that after sharing the dream with mom, I went from ignoring the dream to thinking of jumping off my house? From living to dying? From top to bottom? What the fuck just happened? Why did it affect me so much?"
(Individuation sucks.) The family system strives for homeostasis. (You can find articles about that, I will not explain it here.) You try to change it and it loops you back in. THINK ABOUT IT What does your mom do to get you to act sick? This is not the first time you behave this way. You do it every time your mom does ??????
My guess.... You are in a love hate relationship with your mom. You are enmeshed. You look up to her, respect her, and of course value her opinion. Perhaps that is cultural or personal. The fact is, mom is a very important and powerful figure in your life. You are trying to individuate ( Become your own person and not in a way mom is approving of). You pull away. Mom is severely upset. You want to rescue her and make her feel better. You cannot admit to yourself that you do not care because you care deeply. You are experiencing Cognitive dissonance between yourself and the love of your mom. Your unconscious maneuver is to become depressed. Mom will care for you if you are depressed and everything is restored. The family system works again. You get depressed so your mother will not be depressed. You are protecting her with your depression. You are saving your mother by being depressed.
AND NOW FOR THE GOOD NEWS!!!!! WOW!!!
"On the 4th day, I broke. I went inside my parents room and challenged them to a debate. I told mom to let me know what you know. I will ask you questions, answer them. If you can't, don't ever challenge me again. Mom started crying and apologized said that she doesn't remember anything now and that she said what she said without thinking. She read islam long ago in her childhood and she does not know whether she read about what I asked her or not. Then, dad and mom both agreed infront of me that they cannot compete with me because my knowledge of islam as a muslim before and now as a atheist is still 100x more than them."
It does not matter if you share anything with them or not!!!! THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. YOU BROKE THE CHAINS. IF YOU GO BACK, YOU GO BACK ON YOUR TERMS ---- NOT THEIRS., WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!!!
I'm Psychic too..... The next person to post will be Tin Man...... He follow this shit!
@Cog Re: "I'm Psychic too..... The next person to post will be Tin Man...."
Hah! WRONG, banana breath! I will NOT be the next one to post! I will wait for somebody else to post first just to prove you are NOT psyc-... Oh... Wait.... *looking around at thread*.... Aw, DAMMIT!...
Hook. Line. Sinker.
rmfr
P.S. — ROFLMAO