Hand Sanitizer???

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Cognostic's picture
Hand Sanitizer???

Has anyone seen any empirical study validating the idea that hand sanitizer actually kills a virus?

I watched several studies where people smear their hands with bacteria and then "Wow!! Hand sanitizer really works!" BACTERIA is not VIRUS. Just curious about the facts. ARE THERE ANY?

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Cognostic's picture
THIS IS THE SORT OF SHIT I

THIS IS THE SORT OF SHIT I KEEP SEEING: "CDC recommends washing hands with soap and water whenever possible because hand-washing reduces the amounts of all types of germs and chemicals on hands. But if soap and water are not available, using a hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol can help you avoid getting sick and spreading germs to others."

Most of you have the intelligence to figure out the bait and switch going on here. Nothing about VIRUS at all. So, what are the actual statistical FACTS.?

Garrett Smith's picture
Have you tried googling it? I

Have you tried googling it? I'd hope that most here would have the smarts and do their due diligence to look for evidence.

I did a quick search for:— 
60% alcohol virus pathogens

Alcohol Sanitizer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513254/

I also found:

Epidemiologic Background of Hand Hygiene and Evaluation of the Most Important Agents for Scrubs and Rubs
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC523567/

The studies mention alcohol is effective at killing enveloped viruses.

Because coronavirus has a membrane, it is susceptible to damage and can be mitigated by alcohol. That's also why Echinacea is effective against coronavirus; and likely berberine, too.

Cognostic's picture
FIRST LINK: https://www.ncbi

FIRST LINK: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK513254/

"The concentration of alcohol does change the efficacy with one study showing a hand rub with 85% ethanol being significantly better at reducing bacterial populations compared to concentrations of 60% to 62%. "

ASSERTIONS AND NO INFORMATION ABOUT VIRUS..... (WHAT ABOUT VIRAL POPULATIONS?)

SECOND LINK:
Ethanol at high concentrations (e.g., 95%) is the most effective treatment against naked viruses, whereas n-propanol seems to be more effective against the resident bacterial flora. (MOST EFFECTIVE??? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?)

Now here is an interesting statement: "Plain soap and water has the lowest efficacy of all." What happened to "hand washing is the best thing to do?"

Many virus are not effected at all "A recent review found that ethanol at 80% is unlikely to sufficiently destroy poliovirus, polyomavirus, calicivirus (FCV), hepatitis A virus (HAV) and foot-and-mouth disease virus (FMDV). However, at 95%, the spectrum of virucidal activity of ethanol covers the majority of clinically relevant viruses. Additional acids can substantially improve the virucidal activity of ethanol at lower concentrations against, e.g., poli."

NOTHING HERE ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF HAND SANITIZER.... NO FACTS OR PERCENTAGES CONCERNING OVERALL EFFECTIVENESS....

DID YOU READ THE ARTICLES? I have read about 20 now and all any of them state is that hand sanitizer is effective, and then they allude to bacteria.

HOW EFFECTIVE? WHAT IS THE RESEARCH?

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Garrett Smith's picture
"NOTHING HERE ABOUT THE

"NOTHING HERE ABOUT THE EFFECTIVENESS OF HAND SANITIZER..."

I spent a few seconds to scan it…

ABHS – alcohol based hand sanitizer

"Ethanol hand sanitizers were significantly more effective than hand washing with soap and water for removal of detectable rhinovirus, the most frequent cause of the common cold, from hands. One concern is that the antimicrobial effect of ABHS is very short lived. The addition of organic acids to the ethanol provided residual virucidal activity that persisted for at least 4 hours. Whether these treatments will reduce rhinovirus infection in the natural setting remains to be determined.

A study published in 2017 in the Journal of Infectious Diseases evaluated the virucidal activity of ABHS against re-emerging viral pathogens, such as Ebola virus, Zika virus (ZIKV), severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV), and Middle East"

That's definitely something about hand sanitizer. Something is not nothing.

Cognostic's picture
@Garrett Smith: Do you know

@Garrett Smith: Do you know how to read? All you have are claims. Not a single fact.

Rhinovirus is not Covid 19 and the conclusion of the study, "Whether these treatments will reduce rhinovirus infection in the natural setting remains to be determined."

It's definitely not anything important about hand sanitizer and its possible effectiveness on covid 19.

Algebe's picture
Some expert on TV was saying

Some expert on TV was saying that sanitizers had to be at least 70% alcohol to kill viruses.

Whiskey will do the job, but you have to drink an awful lot of it and then piss on your hands. There's always the option of injecting disinfectant or bleach into your veins. That will pretty much guarantee that you'll never suffer from any disease ever again.

Or you could wash your hands in holy water. That works as well with viruses as it does with other threats.

Cognostic's picture
@Algebe: I've heard all

@Algebe: I've heard all sorts of stuff like that but seen no facts. My piss rusts Tin Man so I am sure it is deadly to virus. A virus can not be seen without an electron microscope; hence, all the studies with bacteria (I assume).

A Doctor or dentist must submerge tools in alcohol for eight to ten minutes to kill any virus. But somehow spreading a bit of alcohol on your hands can do the trick? Really?

I heard that what the goop you put on your hands actually does is stick the virus to the surface of your skin so it does not spread as easily. It does not seem to be killing it (unless perhaps it is already weakened). It can live for seventy-two hours on a surface according to the CDC.

Still looking for facts.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Algebe - There's always the

Algebe - There's always the option of injecting disinfectant or bleach into your veins. That will pretty much guarantee that you'll never suffer from any disease ever again.

I'm sure burning gasoline will kill the virus (and anything else).

Whitefire13's picture
Whoa!!!! We’re suppose to be

Whoa!!!! We’re suppose to be washing our hands!!!??????

I keep a nice layer of dirt and shit on them - acts like a “buffer” for germs and shit, PLUS it helps with the whole “herd immunity” idea the population seems to have adopted and hugged and is currently kissing....

Cognostic's picture
THIS IS THE SNEAKY SHIT THEY

THIS IS THE SNEAKY SHIT THEY TRY TO PASS BY US:
"According to the CDC, hand sanitizer is not as effective at killing germs as washing your hands with soap and water. The CDC says that washing your hands is a better tactic for removing certain viruses and bacteria, such as Cryptosporidium (causes diarrhea) and norovirus (stomach bugs)."

GERMS: The entire set of all micro-organisms that are capable of causing disease.

Contra-19: The subset of .0001% of virus capable of causing disease.

What in the fuck does any of this have to do with the Covid-19? ARE THERE ANY FACTS OUT THERE AT ALL OR IS ALL OF THIS ONE BIG SNOWJOB?

Cognostic's picture
dis·in·fect

dis·in·fect
/ˌdisənˈfekt/

clean (something), especially with a chemical, in order to destroy bacteria.

NOT VIRUS!

Whitefire13's picture
Here’s a mind fuck.

Here’s a mind fuck.

My one boy has OCD. Has meds and of course behaviour treatment. Spent years getting him to balance out washing his hands and double, triple, quadruple checking shit. “So what if the house burns down, we have insurance.” “So what is someone breaks in...we have insurance.”
Thank fuckin god for insurance. But I’m in for a heap of trouble should insurance companies go bankrupt (lol).

Seriously, he’s balanced, mostly (aren’t we all???) but it’s been an inside joke at home how his previous behaviour is the new norm.

Italianish's picture
You have to mix all listed

You have to mix all listed things together in your hands..
then you have to climb Mt. Everest, worship me, pray for 6 days.. then I will wash your hands clean of the virus.
But there’s still a 0.00000000001% chance that it will still be there because I don’t want to use all my infinite magical powers to clean your
Hands completely.

LogicFTW's picture
I am no expert, but, they are

I am no expert, but, they are still susceptible to damage from your standard array of corrosive forces.

Expose it to high temperatures, it will die. (Same sort of thing as boiling your water.) The kinetic energy rips apart the virus structure. High alcohol percentages also kill it. (My chemistry is too hazy to remember why, but alcohol is very destructive. But will alcohol find and kill every last virus even embedded in something, or even protected by the dead virus shells of the rest of the virus load. 70% Alcohol will kill 99% of the virus, just that last 1% can still get ya.

Fortunately is highly unlikely if you wipe out 99% of a virus load with one of many various methods will you get infected with the remaining 1%, but it is possible. You probably just reduced your chances of getting infected by 90+ percent as well.

To me its all an "odds" game. If you go into a hospital overwhelmed with covid-patients and wear no protection, no distancing, touch your face a lot, your chances of getting the virus if you spend a lot of time there (like staff) your chances quickly approach 90+%

If you stay home, only go out to get vital supplies, wear mask, wash your hands a lot, don't touch your face, etc. Stay 6 feet from everyone, etc, your chances rapidly approach 1 in a million.

For most people they wont get it until someone "close" to them gets it. Someone they interact with, at extended length of time, every day. Like the people you live with.

Cognostic's picture
@LOGIC: "70% Alcohol will

@LOGIC: "70% Alcohol will kill 99% of the virus, just that last 1% can still get ya."
Where is the evidence.

So how does a doctor steralize instruments.... Boiling water, Sodium Calcium Hydrochloride, or.......

"3. Soaking in 70% isopropyl alcohol for 30 minutes is another option. Some will even put instruments in a metal tray with alcohol and ignite them. The flame and alcohol, or even just fire itself (if evenly distributed) will do the job, but eventually causes damage to the instruments."

"30 MINUTES" Yet we are to believe our hands are sterile in 30 seconds? Really? 99% I'm just not buying it for now.

https://www.backdoorsurvival.com/how-to-disinfect-and-sterilize-medical-...

Algebe's picture
Another protective substance

Another protective substance that is often overlooked is snot. God obviously intended us to smear this wonderful substance all over our hands and faces to ward off all kind of diseases. Otherwise why would He in His great wisdom install double-barrelled snot dispensers right in the middle of our faces?

Hint: Snot can also be used in place of starch to stiffen fabrics or as an adhesive for stamps, envelopes, etc. It is also halal and kosher, making it the perfect ingredient for dishes to be served at religious feasts.

LogicFTW's picture
I also read nose hairs are

I also read nose hairs are great first line defense to viruses, so don't trim em. Wear your nose hairs loud and proud and in charge!

Cognostic's picture
@Algebe: Yes. Mucus

@Algebe: Yes. Mucus protects the virus and think mucus doubly so. And there can be hundreds of thousands of microbes in a single drop of "snot."

Everything I am seeing talks about how hand sanitizers work on bacteria.... not virus. Where is the ultimate virus study? All you get from the WHO or CDC is that sanitizer may be useful if you do not have access to soap and water.

All I am asking is "HOW USEFUL?" And where is the study?

Whitefire13's picture
2020 is turning us into a

2020 is turning us into a bunch of natural hippies!

cranky47's picture
@Cognostic:

@Cognostic:

"Has anyone seen any empirical study validating the idea that hand sanitizer actually kills a virus?"

No, and I'm sceptical about claims,. even though surgeons wash their hands with antibacterial hand wash.

Such soaps did not exist in the nineteenth century when surgeons and other medicos began to wash their hands. All they had was plain soap. Why washing their hands worked to remove bacteria was THE WAY IN WHICH HANDS WERE WASHED. IE Thoroughly, often with a brush .

I was taught sterile procedure as an army medic and assisted in minor procedures in our clinic. We used HIBITANE a general purpose medical disinfectant.

It has been my understanding that washing one's hands say after going to the toilet washes bacteria off the hands ,but does not kill it outright.

Having been unable to buy hand sanitiser, I have been using plain soap or shower gel and washing my hands thoroughly, the way I was taught.

Just had a quick search, and found this:

"Hand sanitizer: the convenient, on-the-go method of cleaning your hands. The only problem is, hand sanitizer may not be as effective as washing your hands, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Learn how and when to properly use hand sanitizer, when you should just wash your hands instead and how to protect yourself from viruses (including coronavirus) and bacteria. "

https://www.cnet.com/news/hand-sanitizer-how-it-can-protect-you-from-get...

Below a 37 second video on how to wash your hands properly: Title; Covid advice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seA1wbXUQTs.

Cognostic's picture
@Cranky: I actually e

@Cranky: I actually e-mailed the CDC. I got back a list of the same links. I've read all the advice for proper hygiene during the outbreak. I certainly agree with it. Like you, I am just asking questions and seeking facts and clarification. Appreciate your time and response.

Algebe's picture
I've been getting ads for UV

I've been getting ads for UV sanitizers. The WHO says they're not suitable for hands because they damage the skin, but I wonder whether there's a safe exposure that will kill viruses before damaging skin cells. The advantage is that no chemicals are involved. Alcohol and strong soaps can also damage the skin.

cranky47's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

"The WHO says they're not suitable for hands because they damage the skin,----"

Really? I didn't know that. I spend a lot of time painting (acrylics) and get a lot of paint on my hands ,shirt, jumper and jeans. I have special grubby old clothes I wear, but need to clean my hands several times a day before even considering washing for antiviral health --------

I get the paint off by using one of those metal shavings scourers, more heavy duty than steel wool, which rusts anyway. Cleans the paint of a treat. It's bit rough but it's not as if I'm scrubbing delicate nether regions. Probably a bit late to start worrying about skin damage to my hands---here in the skin cancer capital of the world, I reckon my skin is just dandy if it doesn't have a melanoma.

Cognostic's picture
I've read that UV is

I've read that UV is ineffective as there are three types and the one that kills the virus is UVC. “From nurses to some guy building a UVC box in their basement, I’m getting calls every day” asking for help with setup, said Brian Heimbuch, molecular biologist principal investigator and engineering sciences division head at Applied Research Associates, a high-end private research-and-development company. “It scares me that people are going to hurt themselves with UVC.”

Of the three types of ultraviolet light, UVC is the deadly one, ­long-established for water and air sanitizing, but also one that people should never fool with. The invisible light is highly carcinogenic, with disinfecting results that vary widely in professional settings depending on the setup.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/sunlights-ultraviolet-wavelengths-...

doG's picture
This is a good read for ya

This is a good read for ya brother

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/studies-hand-sanitiz...

PBUH (plantain bananas ur healthy)

Cognostic's picture
@dogL This is the study I

@dogL This is the study I quoted above. "However, these formulations failed to meet the effectiveness requirements of European Norm 1500, which measures how much live bacteria remain on contaminated fingertips after using hand?

BACTERIA NOT VIRUS!

The two WHO formulations had a virus reduction factor of >3.8, while the modified versions had a reduction factor of ≥5.9.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Other than the assertion, hand sanitizers kill virus, I see no actual facts. What percent of virus remained alive after 30 seconds of smearing hand sanitizer on one's hands?

doG's picture
@yourchimpness

@yourchimpness

Quoting my link...

"They found that all sanitizer formulations and dilutions of 40% or more killed the coronavirus and reduced the virus to background levels within 30 seconds. The two WHO formulations had a virus reduction factor of >3.8, while the modified versions had a reduction factor of ≥5.9. "

Am I missing something here?

Cognostic's picture
@doG: I don't know about you

@doG: I don't know about you but I certainly am. To what do the numbers refer? Can we convert it into some sort of percent?

What is a virus reduction factor of 3.8?

*Reduction Factor shows the quality of being efficient for lateral load resistance systems through inelastic behavior in the abandonment of seismic energy. Reduction Factor is one of the parameters, which is widely used in the recommendations to govern elastic resistance of the structure.

3 out of 8 virus are killed? 5 out of 9 are killed> 60% effective? I have no idea but I thought someone on the site might. Where is the great butterfly guy when you need him??

doG's picture
Gotcha...I'll try and find

Gotcha...I'll try and find the actual study.

doG's picture
OK,

OK,
found the original study link off pubmed, which surprise surprise linked to a full copy on the cdc website...lol. anyways, grab your banana and read...

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0915_article

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