aggresive theists

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JDM1999's picture
aggresive theists

i recently got into a discussion with a person of mormon belief who was quite adamant at convincing me of his faith, he went as far as to pressure me into reading his bible and to ''accept the grace of his father'' as he described it. naturally i invoked my right of discussion and started asking him some deep questions about life, the universe and death. when he told me that god loved me regardless of my believes i asked him wich god he meant, at wich point he got agressive and told me i would rot in hel and that my entire family would be dragged down if i didn't change my ways. this didn't convince me ofcourse, nor would it convince any of my family members to adopt religious believes, but it did spark a question in my mind:

why do most litteral theists always act in extremes, it's either you are loved by this god or that deity or you will burn eternally in hellfire, paying for your sins because you didn't believe. what do you say to an individual with such strong beliefs?

whenever i meet someone that believes in heaven or hell, i feel sorry for them because they wil never know true freedom, they live their lives in anticipation for paradise, not noticing that now is the only paradise they will ever know. when they lash out and say you will go to hell, they talk from their own deepest fears and that's what gets me, i don't feel offended but i do feel a certain amount of sadness.

the idea of hell and heaven is a prison for the mind, there are only two directions so you better watch out folks, or you'll fall.

my apologies if there were any spelling mistakes, english is not m native language.

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Sushisnake's picture
Hi and welcome, aegon.

Hi and welcome, aegon.

I've got to say I've never come across a Mormon like that. It's probably because I'm in Australia and it would be counterproductive to send that sort here as missionaries- sorry, elders.

Australians are pretty lucky all round- not many rabid Christians here at all.

JDM1999's picture
i'm not just talking about

i'm not just talking about mormons, when they feel insecure about their point of discussion, they tend to resort to eternal damnation and such to ''win'' an argument.
''rabid christians'', genius.

Sheldon's picture
It's probably a defence

It's probably a defence mechanism. Though of course this doesn't make the behaviour any less unpleasant, or remotely acceptable. The minute the threats of hellfire come out you are well within your rights to cheerily tell them to fuck as far as I am concerned. The real irony is how often they try to play the victim when their beliefs are challenged. I've never heard an atheist threaten eternal torture ever, just because someone wouldn't accept their point of view.

Tin-Man's picture
@Sheldon Re: "I've never

@Sheldon Re: "I've never heard an atheist threaten eternal torture ever..."

Oh, really? Well then, how about THIS?...

If you don't believe what I believe, mister, then you will forever be flogged with limp spaghetti noodles while being continuously tummy-tickled by a box full of cute cuddly kittens. Sorry I have to be so harsh and cruel, but that's what you get when you don't believe me.

arakish's picture
I can attest to the

I can attest to the aggressive tactics of theists. The main reason behind their aggressiveness is due to the indoctrination processes they are put through. Essentially, they are taught that they are to go out and "save souls" even if it kills us godless heathens.

Here are some excerpts of the article I wrote "About Absolutist Training" and published in my book Riding Some Wild Tangents.

First a formal definition: ABSOLUTISTanyone belonging to any religion, especially the absolute Abrahamic religions – Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. – due to their absolutist beliefs system and is truly applicable to any AND all religious believers.

"The Absolutists usually begin the training from early childhood through a controlled, systematic, totalitarian indoctrination process which utilizes mental rape, emotional molestation, and psychological terrorism when a child's mind, especially in the ages of 4 to 14 years, is at its most susceptible and most vulnerable to cultural conditioning.

"Absolutists are trained to react to ideas, and to reject them no matter what they are told, presented, and/or taught. They are taught to never question their beliefs. Militantly trained to maintain and preserve the faith. And, due to this designed abusive training and indoctrination process, they shall do so with apologetics, beguiling dialectical semantics, distorted and perverted data, emotional whiny-ass pleas, and sometimes divinely-inspired violence. [In America, this is verbal violence. Physical in Islamic nations.]

"Absolutists are nothing more than liars, bullies, frauds, cowards, and oppressors hiding the agenda of their attempts and wont to enslave the human species... to destroy free thinking, to obliterate free will to make our own decisions. And it is all for nothing more than to pad their sorry fat asses with money pillows."

Yes, theists become aggressive (as all my family does) when you can easily destroy and disprove their coerced and compulsed beliefs system. As far as I am concerned, the most violent persons on this planet are those of religions bents.

Here is some interesting data I am currently working on re-analyzing:

Some Research Into The GOOD Of Religion
Author's Note: I have just downloaded some of the most recent TIGER data (and may need other data files) released by the Census Bureau. I am going to update this section eventually. I am even thinking of changing the colors to green and red, kind of to indicate safety and danger.

"Current research evidence does not support the common view that religiosity is positively correlated with good morality," said Sam Harris.

In fact, I used QGIS software, and the TIGER data from the Census Bureau and crime data files from the FBI to see how correct his statement is. It took me several months, but my research has shown that the more religious a population, the higher the crime rates, specifically violent crime. While the same research shows that the more educated (thus less religious) a population, the lower the crime rates. If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

Here are some research numbers (since I cannot use colors, bold and italics):
Blue = Highly educated; persons with at least a Master's degree or higher, or multiple (2+) Baccalaureate or higher degrees.
Red = Highly religious; persons with low education (no high school diploma), Associate's degree or lower, or no degrees.
This is only in the United States, perhaps the most religious nation on Earth (excepting some Muslim nations).

  • Of the 25 states with the lowest rates of crime, 5 are red, 20 are blue (a 1:4 ratio).
  • Of the 25 states with the highest rates of crime, 19 are red, 6 are blue (a 3:1 ratio).
  • Of the 25 most dangerous cities, 22 are red, 3 are blue (a 7:1 ratio).
  • Of the 20 most safest cities, only 2 are red, 18 are blue (a 1:9 ratio).
  • Of the 19 states with the highest rates of burglary, 16 are red, 3 are blue (a 5:1 ratio).
  • Of the 22 states with the highest rates of theft, 18 are red, 4 are blue (a 4:1 ratio).
  • Of the 22 states with the highest rates of murder, 19 are red, 3 are blue (a 6:1 ratio).

Reiteration: If religion is so damned good for us, then why does it seem to spawn so much more violent crime?

More shocking numbers on the goodness of religion (researched as an afterthought):

  • 93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian :-O (a 13:1 ratio).
  • 76% of all inmates identify themselves as religious believers (a 3:1 ratio).
  • 0.02% of inmates identify themselves as Atheist, meaning only 1 in 5000 are Atheist.

If Atheists are so damned immoral... why does the prison population not reflect this? And look again at the first one.

I mean, "93% of convicted child molesters identify themselves as Christian?" What the Hell kind of crap is that?! And since, when?, the mid-80s, this has really come back to bite you Christians in the ass. Especially the Catholics within Christianity.


Edit: correct some typos and add "Yes. I know the ratios above are rounded off."

JDM1999's picture
thank you for this

thank you for this information, i may be able to use this in the future.

LogicFTW's picture
Ofcourse we all know the real

Ofcourse we all know the real reason is the religion ideas that "win" and do not fade out and disappear are the religions that have people that spread the religion idea as much as possible. Tactics are many, but, aggressive tactics are the ones most succesful at spreading religion.

Look at radicalized islam, spreading like wildfire on a dry windy day, all when most religions are in major decline. Aggressive tactics are the name of the game.

mbrownec's picture

Thank you for the data and the time you spent compiling your post.

A sister subject to your post is the unrelenting dogmatism of some religious zealots. I have to deal with Jehovah's Witnesses a lot here in Ecuador. Other than being rude and walking away from them, there seems to be no other (legal) way to get rid of them. Telling them I'm an atheist, and telling them why, just causes them to dig in their heels.

Unfortunately, one doesn't have to spend very much time in the forums to see that the same affliction can be found among some atheists as well.


dogmatic character; unfounded positiveness in matters of opinion; arrogant assertion of opinions as truths.


ZeffD's picture
Arakish: "If Atheists are so

Arakish: "If Atheists are so damned immoral... why does the prison population not reflect this?"
I would be very careful of statistics and especially about making inferences from them. The number of Christians in prisons may reflect nothing more than the hope of many inmates of sympathy or assistance from pastors or Christian prison visitors. They may also think it helps them in a court with "In God We Trust" above the judge.
(I'm a non-believer and not religious)

LogicFTW's picture
That last line ZeffD, They

That last line ZeffD, They may also think it helps them in a court with "In God We Trust" above the judge.

Agree plus 1000.

"Separate church and state" my fat ass!

Cognostic's picture
@aegon " i would rot in

@aegon " i would rot in hell and that my entire family would be dragged down if i didn't change my ways."

What's great about this is that it really does not matter if you go to hell or not. Mormons are posthumously baptizing people and rescuing them from hell. They have almost baptized all the dead Jews and soon they will get to you. So you really have to do nothing at all at this point.

@ "why do most litteral theists always act in extremes,"
The Abrahamic faiths are religions based on "in group / out group" thinking. You are either (Matthew 12:30, With me or against me.) There is no middle ground in the war against evil. (Revelation 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold....So then because you are lukewarm, and neither cold
nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.) Death awaits the non-believer (The non-joiner.)

@ "i do feel a certain amount of sadness."
Agreed! It is really difficult to watch a sermon, listen to the absolute crap coming from the preacher's mouth, and then realize not a person in the room can see the bullshit being thrown at them.

@ Religion is a prison of the mind. (Caution here) What is the difference between a bird singing in a cage and a bird singing on the branch of a tree?

"The size of the cage." None of us are free. Freedom comes from recognizing the bars.

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