Another Question for Theists
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And what of the Quaran - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK1dDtisaGE
How many times have you heard that the Quaran has never changed because it is the word of God. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK1dDtisaGE
Oh fk it! The Quaran must be true. .
To be truly wise you must believe whatever the foolish believe. 2:13
No one understands the allegorical stuff except for Allah. 3:7 (And it sure seems Search for Truth has no idea what he is talking about.)
I am quite certain this applies to all of Searching for Truth's posts.
Ah, you invoke the 3:7, tsk tsk tsk... guess my social experiment has come to an end :(
Oh well, lessons learned...
“First off, using math as a comparison is not valid, because math is precise and not open to interpretation. There is only one answer, 4.” The exact same thing is true with the Quran on its core message of peace. Just because others understand different does NOT mean it’s true. Not every single thing in the Quran is open for interpretation. Small example, when the Quran says don’t drink alcohol, there is no interpretation needed as its very straight forward. I hope we can at least agree on that. But, when the Quran says (and I am paraphrasing here) that men should not touch/freely interact with women that are not their wives, sisters, mothers or any close relation. A verse like that is open for interpretation and understanding since the Quran also has “common sense” in it, since it came from the creator and the creator knows his creation he knows this verse cannot be taken very literal. For example, if a Muslim woman sees a man drowning what is she supposed to do? According to the extremists they will say the Quran says she should leave him alone but, the people that truly understand the message and theme of Islam will say that she should jump in and save him and even give him mouth to mouth if that’s what needed and will save his life. The problem with the ignorant when they talk about the Quran is they, for some reason, tend to assume people are perfect and Islam is the problem. These uneducated claims and comments are mostly and mainly brought by Islamic haters and Atheists (sorry to say). I have said this multiple times in the past and will most likely say it many more times in the future, read the Quran as well as the life of the prophet, understand both then make a judgement.
“Your Koran, the bible, and other religious texts are imperfect, they are flawed. In the bible or Koran you can find one page that preaches humility, peace, and forbearance, while on the next page you can find murder, intolerance, and cruelty.” FALSE (in regards to the Quran or Koran both spellings work), read the Quran, understand its message then comment.
“Additionally, I am certain with high confidence that you learned your religion on your mother's knee, which means you followed the religion in the geographical area you were raised in. You did not choose your religion, your community chose what religion you had to follow.” Every day I learn more and more about how random people on this forum keep telling things about myself that I did not know. Let’s see if you are right. My mom is Puerto Rican that was born and raised in NY. My dad is “White” American that was born and raised in Jacksonville, FL. My mom went to an all Christian school growing up while my dad went to public school, both Christian. I was raised mainly between Orlando and Atlanta, yup, you are 100% correct. NY, Jacksonville, Orland and Atlanta are all 100% Muslim cities and Islam is taught starting from day care as well. David, you are a genius.
” I had the honor to have dinner just last Friday with some wonderful people, Muslims from Pakistan. We did touch a bit discussing religion, but in the end, we all agreed that the solution to many of today's ills are diplomacy, not violence. That is their perspective, because the community they were raised in practiced that interpretation of the Koran. In another part of Pakistan, some communities hold a different interpretation on the Koran, one of violent fundamentalism.” All I can say is read the book and you come to you conclusion. Atheists seem to pride themselves on knowledge yet, their complete fear (yes, fear) and rejection to even understanding anything when it comes to religion is in complete contradiction of what they claim to be proud of. Although, Atheism has nothing to do with logic so me trying pointing out how illogical atheism is, is me just wasting time. Anyway, moving on.
“That is my point, that with an imperfect book it is open to various interpretations, each one which could be considered "right". They use the same book, they study it diligently, spend countless hours discussing that book, but their final conclusion differs from yours.” What standard do you judge a book as perfect or imperfect by? If everything is subjective why should I accept your conclusion of it being imperfect? While you will rush to quickly judge something as imperfect, let me give you this example. While not directly from the Quran but from the Sunnah (teachings of the Prophet) in hopes to try and show you another example of how common sense must and should be applied to Islam. One of the rules of prayer is to pray with clean clothes, a man once approached the prophet and told him that a certain tribe or group of people were praying with dirty clothes. The prophet knew that those people lived in an area where due to their work (mainly farming) it was hard for them to keep their clothes clean so he said yes, they can pray with whatever clothes they have. You go ask an extremist about this they will tell you that those people are not Muslim because it says pray with clean clothes but they don’t. This all goes back to one of the main messages of the prophet which was to always make everyone’s life easier. Islam does not burden people beyond what they are capable of, extremists do. So in order to be considered "right" it needs to fall within the boundaries of Islam. Let’s assume you went on a tour to “preach” Atheism, given your main message of atheism, what would you say if someone said David’s message is to donate money to religious organization? Should I accept what they say as true or should I actually look at David’s main message and see if it falls in line with this statement? Stop taking common sense out of the equation due to hate.
“When it comes to religion, there is not just one conclusion, everything is cherry-picked to suit the person, to fit their agenda and beliefs imparted on them by others.” Again, false when it comes to Islam. Islam has 1 single message.
“I suggest you read up and study "No true Scotsman" because you are beating this fallacy to death, and the great majority of atheist debaters in here recognize your failed tactics.” Let’s make a deal, I will “read up and study "No true Scotsman"” if you read the Quran? Let’s actually try and see things from a different point of view prior to judging. What do you say?
I apologize in advice for any typos I might have as I am typing this up on my phone
No deal, researching "No true scotsman" is on a different level than reading an entire book full of contradictions.
I make a counter-offer. You get yourself castrated, and I will read your book.
Just when I was beginning to think there was a person here that wouldn't resort to petty talk. All good. I'm already used to atheists and these kinds of replies. Only further proves to me that I am on the right path and when faced with facts and reality atheists resort to this. Thanks, David.
@Searching for truth
You act as though being opposed to torture is not "something of substance and worth talking about". In my view, if there is any standard of morality, it is to not cause harm to others. But Islam fails to meet this standard when it promotes the torture of those who do not submit to it, whether through crucifixion (qur'an 5:33), or via burning in hell (numerous verses in the qur'an).
To do absolutely nothing would be an infinitely more moral way to live than to live as a Muslim.
Bravo, I can only concur wholeheartedly with your post.
Ahhh, come one Shelly boy. Is this seriously the best you can you? While normally I would simply ignore this since there is still nothing of substance being present here. It was too hard to pass up point out your laziness, arrogance, ignorance and pure hate. Well, since you chose to literally just copy paste your entire “case” from the link I will provide below, I will afford you the same respect and provide my answer in a link below. Good luck and please, stop bringing old made up bs. It only further weakens your Islamic hate game. By the way, had you not been so lazy and blinded by your hate and rushing to find the first google search result, you would have had time to read the comments of all the people that call out this fabricated lie for what it is, a fabricated lie. I will pray for you, brother.
Link to Shelly Boy’s “case”
The Muslim’s reply
“nonetheless here is evidence that Muhammad had someone tortured, and from multiple sources.” LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL good one, bro. got any more quora sources? LOLOLOLOLOL
“Then there was the 9 year old child that Muhammad raped of course, that sounds like torture to me, and should to any decent person.” Ah, this one again. Search online, you will find this has been addressed 100s of times already. The non-hateful answer might not be the first 2 google search results which would explain why you have yet to find an answer. Or maybe you have and it did not satisfy you so you decide to come here to continue spreading hate and ignorance. I will give you a hint Yasir Qadhi
@Searching for truth
You previously said that "Muslims do not believe in torturing anyone who does not believe in Allah."
Can you confirm whether or not you believe crucifying people and burning their skin while attached to hooks is torture? If yes, does this mean that you consider the verses that promote crucifixion and burning their skin while attached to hooks to be metaphorical, and that Muslims such as yourself are opposed to such practices?
Further, can you tell us which of the hadith collections (which were intended to show Muhammad and the early Muslims in a positive light, but fail spectacularly) you choose to regard as legitimate or otherwise convenient?
I have said the Great Wiki and the Great Quora Forum are infinitely more accurate than ANY religious text.
Again - provide evidence your interpretation of Quran is more valid than others. Else we are equally free to make our own interpretations.
Also, address this, before even claiming that interpreting Qoran is acceptable or required to begin with:
No one understands the allegorical stuff except for Allah. 3:7
You speak like I care how you interpret the Quran or as if I am on some kind of mission to make you a Muslim. I am not, and don't care how you interpret the Quran. You admitted to almost having no knowledge of the Quran and not willing to take the time to understand. So why would I was my time explaining anything to you?
Out of respect, had there been a book on atheism, trust me, I would have read it to at least show respect to people I am talking to. Unfortunately, there really isn't anything to atheism that requires more than 2 minutes to understand and become an expert on the topic
@Hulkster Re: "....there really isn't anything to atheism that requires more than 2 minutes to understand and become an expert on the topic"
Wow..... It actually took you up to two minutes to understand atheism? So sad. Personally, I never thought the concept was all that difficult. Somebody tells me, "Hey, Tin-Man, I don't believe in Santa Claus." My response is, "Okay. Cool. I totally understand that." Took all of three seconds, maybe. Same thing with a god. Somebody says, "Hey, I do not believe in Zeus." (Or Thor, or Odin, or Aphrodite, or any of the other thousands of gods...) Once again I say, "Okay. Cool. I totally understand that." Yep, maybe all of three seconds or so. However, you say it took you up to two whole minutes to understand atheism? Dang, dude. If so, you are actually slower than some people give you credit for. What a shame. And as far as being an "expert" on atheism, that is quite baffling. To me, that would be the same as saying somebody is an expert on not believing in leprechauns. Makes absolutely no sense. But - hey - like I always say, my straw-stuffed buddy is the one who got the brain, so what do I know?
Re: Atheist expert
Hey, something dawned on me shortly after making that post about being an expert on atheism. If a person can be an expert on atheism, then it stands to reason a person can be an expert on not having a particular hobby. And if that is true, then I can officially declare myself an absolute expert on Not Collecting Soiled Diapers. That's right, ladies and gentlemen, I am a Non Soiled-Diaper Collecting expert. I do not have any type of soiled diaper collection. I have never had any type of soiled diaper collection. I have never even had so much as a slight interest in collecting soiled diapers. So, as far as I am concerned, that makes me a subject matter expert on not collecting soiled diapers. Go ahead. Ask me any question you want about collecting soiled diapers. I guarantee you I will not have an answer for you. Why? Because I am an expert at NOT collecting soiled diapers, meaning I know nothing about that particular activity. If you want those answers, then you will have to go to somebody who DOES collect soiled diapers. However, ask me a question relating to anything NOT associated with collecting soiled diapers, and chances are I can give you at least some form of answer if it is about something I have actually studied before.
Wow! Imagine! This opens up a whole new world of things I can be an expert at because I do not do them or believe in them. Awesome! My resume is gonna be several pages thick now.
@Hulkster Re: "....had there been a book on atheism, trust me, I would have read it..."
Hey, you are in luck! Here you go! Hot off the presses! An in-depth, highly detailed, and comprehensive book on atheism. Covers absolutely everything a person needs to know about atheism. Wrote it myself. Hope it isn't too complicated. Some parts can be very technical, but I tried to make it as simple as possible.
Lucky I now have a habit of resting my glass of wine a goodly distance away before commencing the perusement of the posts in this place. Between you, Cog and Arakish, I have inhaled more quality Australian wine than a drunken dolphin in a wine barrel. No More. With the aid of your book I can safely rest my glass within arms reach and ensure my mouth is empty before reading the wisdom of your collective posts.
Ah-ha! You have finally started following my Third Commandment of Forum Reading. It only took me once to learn that lesson. And it was a great teacher. I guffawed so hard that not only did I splatter my keyboard and monitor, it went up my nose, into my eyes, all into my hair, all over my torso and lap. Hell, it even got on my cat who was laying on his ottoman about half a meter away.
That was the only lesson I needed. When reading forum posts, I look away from the monitor, take the swallow, set the glass down (as you put it) well out of reach, then start reading again.
That first and only time was all I needed. And I had to take a shower because it was so bad. And my cat spent a day hating me. Hell, I messed the chair so badly, my only alternative was to toss it and buy a new one. As said, it only took that one.
Ahh... But there is no need for a Book of Atheism. Since atheism is the "lack of belief in any god(s)," there is no book needed. Only that one simple statement that ALL Absolutists cannot get through their steel reinforced, self-sealing stem bolted, gold pressed latinum plated skulls.
!) You care enough to bring your spiel onto an atheist forum.
2) I've never read Harry potter, but unequivocally don't believe the supernatural claims the books make are true.
3) No one cares if you bullshit your way through your interpretation of the koran, you came here to offer your beliefs to atheists, not the other way around.
4) "had there been a book on atheism, trust me, I would have read it" Who cares? Atheism makes no claims, you don't need to read anything about it to know that.
5) "Unfortunately, there really isn't anything to atheism that requires more than 2 minutes to understand and become an expert on the topic"
6) It took you 5 minutes to Google atheism, wow? As I said atheism makes no claims, it simply the lack or absence of belief in a deity or deities, so you don;t seem to have a point.
Theism makes claims, you brought your chosen superstition onto this forum, ergo it is incumbent on you to demonstrate objective evidence for your version of that superstition. Since atheism is only the absence of belief in a deity, no arguments or explanations of it are necessary.
Searching For Truth's replies in precis:
Forum quotes Verse of Quran:
Hulk: That's out of context/You haven't read it
Forum: Yes, I have read it..heres the verse
Hulk: You don't know how to read it
Forum: Produces Hadith verses and witnesses
Hulk: That's just Google lies. you are an idiot
Forum: But, I have read the Qu'ran
Hulk: No you haven't , you can't have or you would see my truth. You are an idiot
Hulk: I am now ignoring you.
Hulk: God did it. Mohammed did not marry Aisha at six years old and rape her when she was nine. Things were different/it didnt happen/google lies.
Hulk: I am now ignoring you. Atheists are stupid.
lol: That's on target. I got bored with his antics a long time ago. You could hit him square in the face with a fact and he would not know it.
A cop pulls up on a man who is scrounging around in a dark mosque. "Excuse me sir, can I ask what your doing." (These are the cops I grew up with, not the modern assholes who think they have power over everyone.) "I'm Searching for Truth" says the man. "But it's dark in here, how will you find anything?" asks the cop. "Allah will guide my way." says the man. "Well, here." offers the cop, "Would you like to borrow my flashlight." "No says the man, I will just stumble around in the dark. The light hurts my eyes." "Okay," says the cop, "but if truth is there you are never going to find it scrounging around in the dark." "You just don't understand," says the man. The cop just shakes his head and walks away.
To this day, when the wind is blowing in the right direction and the stars are in alignment with the magic black rock at Mecca, from the top of that mosque, five times a day you can hear the man moaning. "Where in the fuck is truth. Where in the fuck is truth?"