Archaeological Findings

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Anonymous's picture
Kilauea. (big exhale) I

Kilauea. (big exhale) I want to tell you what the issue is, which involves USGS, but it's a .... lololol... you wouldn't believe it if I told you. Nah. I'm not going to talk about it, because it's a real mess, and it goes back years to Queen Liliuokalani and Hawaiian land rights. I reread my posts, and now, I can see how you would take offense. That's the problem with texting, isn't it? So, I too, apologize, Bonzai Boy.

Only one heart attack? Hah! Amateur. (giggle, snicker)

arakish's picture
Yeah, only one. Don't really

Yeah, only one. Don't really want another. Hell, that gall bladder attack I had was a hundred times worse. Had to have the gall bladder removed. Biopsy showed it was actually beginning to necrotize. Yuck! And exceptionally dangerous.

Yeah, I did some research into the "land trusts" in the State of Hawai'i. It can be screwy. By the way, those "land trusts" have nothing to do with the USGS. Even we have to "rent" the land to have our observatory there. I did check that out. From what I researched, the "land trusts" are handled by the State of Hawai'i under the auspices of the Federal Bureau of Land Management. But I could have found the wrong things.

I could care less about that. FEMA needs to really get off their sorry asses and help those displaced people instead of dicking them around. Sorry for the foul language but that is something that pisses me off.


Anonymous's picture
I'm done with this subject.

I'm done with this subject. Seriously. Really done. I'm tired of explaining it, and we really should move on, don't you think?

Cognostic's picture
This has been around for

This has been around for about 15 years now and other than the assertions of the religious, no one else is taking the Sodom stuff seriously.

Spudnik510's picture
please no un helpful comments

please no un helpful comments im trying to find good sound reasons for these things yea i dont believe the myths either but still does not mean that we cant look for the actual reason for these things

Anonymous's picture
No "unhelpful comments"? Are

No "unhelpful comments"? Are you serious. You post an unreasonable OP on an ATHEIST site, and you don't want "unreasonable" comments?

Who is being unreasonable? I still think the OP is unreasonable, because it doesn't any sense. It's like you know the Fountain of Youth is a myth, but you're still going to Florida.

Anonymous's picture
Hi, Spudnik,

Hi, Spudnik,

I'm glad to see a thread about arch, but may I ask why it's so important to you? The Sodom arch. I'm not complaining, I'm just asking why.

watchman's picture
@Spud …..

@Spud …..

"i don't believe the myths either but still does not mean that we cant look for the actual reason for these things"

Very well...… then try this...…..

What is striking about the tale of Lot and his family...…. surely the turning to a pillar of salt of Lot's wife...… but where can we find pillars of salt...… why in salt pans of course..... and curiously enough if you stop looking in the northern Jordan area and move south to the southern Jordan basin...… voila !....salt flats.....lots of salt flats ….. spreading for miles...…. and in those salt flats every so often ...a pillar of salt.....

How simple it would be for passing tribesmen to attribute these stunning natural formations to a story/legend of a disobedient wife being punished.....

Unfortunate that this area of the Jordan river does not align with the Biblical geography...… but so what? … we know the Bible is fallacy ….

No ...if you truly wish to find Sodom..... try further south...… where the pillars of salt grow....

(of course this would only be the case if the stories of a destroyed city and a "saline lady" are actually linked and not just an amalgam of two (or more) local myths /stories....nailed together to create a narrative.)

Anonymous's picture
I don't get it, either. Why

I don't get it, either. Why would someone look for evidence for a myth they don't believe?

I wish Spud would respond in detail. There must be some reason. Too much time on his/her hands? Just wanna chat about arch? I can't make sense of it, either.

The Sodom and Go story, like all stories, can showcase TONS of interpretations, without even being factual. Just like Aesop's Fables, which I adore. They are all lessons humans created to keep people in line. Notice it's the wife who does the bad deed, and the husband gets off Scott free. Notice she is PUNISHED by the god. In 2018, that would still mean, ...." mind yer husband, girls, or else god is gonna get ya. Remember, the husband is the head of the house."

This just seems like the author or the OP is looking for proof that it happened. Because if you don't find the proof, then what does that mean? Weird, but whatever.

Spudnik510's picture
im not looking for evidence

im not looking for evidence for a myth im looking at what is there and linking it to a logical explanation if there is one not a supernatural explanation

Anonymous's picture
I'm really trying to

I'm really trying to understand this.
You are not looking for evidence for a myth.
You're looking for "what is there", and linking it to a logical explanation.
But not a supernatural explanation.


The problem with "what is there" and linking it to a logical explanation. So you don't believe in the S&G story, but you want to find evidence for the destroyed city?

Spudnik510's picture
Ok i will put it as simple as

Ok i will put it as simple as i can some one who is a christian suggests that a super natural event occurs and presents evidence or what they would call evidence i look at what they present and try to come up with a logical explanation. I am not looking for evidence of a destroyed city for instance this black rock formation i am talking about if a christian says it is evidence for scorching then i try to find a more logical explanation like the ones posted here suggesting it is more likely geological not supernatural.


The problem with "what is there" and linking it to a logical explanation. So you don't believe in the S&G story, but you want to find evidence for the destroyed city?

There is a destroyed city at tall el hammam that is not a problem its how the city was destroyed was it supernatural or not i don't think so there is obviously natural causes and reasons why it was destroyed and that is what i was looking at actually i am past looking at the destruction of the city its self im just having a look at the dark rock formations that are around they old city as some would say it was caused by scorching.

Randomhero1982's picture
Just reading the OP and it

Just reading the OP and it refers to Steve Collins... a man who's qualifications make him as much of a solid source in this field of study, as Stephen Hawkins was on inline roller skating....

Anonymous's picture
IMO, this OP is not asking

IMO, this OP is not asking any valid questions, because the project would answer all of the questions for the author. Why come here? The author is asking us what we think?

I think the project is looking for evidence to fit the biblical story. A roundabout way to looking for the Ark of the Covenant, or NOah's Arc, or your favorite biblical story.

There is on, because the story is a MYTH. Whatever conclusion is still open to interpretation to any story of humankind. You've got it backwars. YOu look at facts, and then research from there, to a conclusion based on those facts.

Aw, shucks. I thought it was going to be good.

David Killens's picture
My inquiries would begin by

My inquiries would begin by learning the geology of this region, around the Red Sea. Such information is not tainted by religion, nor does it pursue any agenda. It just lays out the geological history of that region.

"The Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden were formed as the Arabian plate separated from Nubia, as Nubia obliquely collided with the Eurasian plate Figure 1. NE-directed extension between 35-27Ma lead to continental rifting along the line of the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden. Coeval with this, between about 31-29Ma, flood basalts erupted covering some 600,000km2 of the region. Along the margins of the Red Sea these lavas are up to 2000m thick (e.g. Wolfenden et al, 2004). Sea floor spreading in the Gulf of Aden begun about 16Ma and about 4Ma in the Red Sea (e.g. Baker et al 1996)."


arakish's picture
@ David

@ David

Exactly. Glad someone knows how to look into things. Me, instead of looking it up (especially in geology), I tend to jump right in and discuss it from memory and learning. Hell, I have studied geology extensively. Most often I forgot some details focusing onto another, such as the East African Rift Zone Complex. Some do still call it "system." However, I always learned complex. And it is a very complex structure. And, yes, it does have a triple rift junction.

One fortunate thing is that this rift zone seems to be ripping apart slowly at only 2 to 3 cm per year. The North American Plate is moving as much as 8 to 10 cm/yr.

A list of volcanoes on the rift zone complex:
Kilimanjaro - probably the most known.
Etra Ale - Afar Depression in Ethiopia.
Mount Kenya
Menengai Crater
Mount Longonot
Mount Karisimbi
Mount Nyiragongo
Mount Meru
Mount Elgon
Ol Doinyo Lengai volcano is currently the only active natrocarbonatite volcano in the world (been there with Professor Tobias Fischer when at UNM)

There may be others I cannot remember or are not listed in my volcanoes textbook.


Anonymous's picture
Those aren't volcanoes.

Those aren't volcanoes. Those are just huge boils. Kilauea is the mother of all volcanoes.

Spudnik510's picture
Hi is it possible that a

Hi is it possible that a basalt bed can be contaminated with other lava flows like Rhyolite to make a sort of dark and sandy mixture coloured rock flow .

Spudnik510's picture
i ask this because the rocks

i ask this because the rocks do seem to have a mixture of colours like a black to sandy almost

arakish's picture
Yes. Look at the western US.

Yes. Look at the western US. Many examples of mafic lava, rhyolitic lava, and betweens.

In fact, any magma intrusion is going to "contaminated" with already existent surrounding rock. This is a process known as "heat metamorphosis." There are two ways to create metamorphic rock: pressure and heat. Sometimes it is both.

The remains of the Appalachian Mountains in North Carolina are a prime example of "pressure" metamorphosis. Most of the rock remaining there is gneiss which is created from granite being crushed under unbelievable pressures.

Even ultra-mafic magma can become rhyolitic with enough melting of existing rock and mixing with the magma. Thus, once it cools, it can look greyish/beigish like granite. However, no ultra-mafic basalt can be found unless it is ejected by an erupting volcano. Within the crustal layer, only mafic, intermediate, and felsic igneous rocks may be found.

Another reason why ultra-mafic magma will never be found is if the magma is ultra-mafic, it will mix enough with the melt of existing rock as it approaches the surface it will only be mafic once it becomes lava. Look at the lava flows of Fissure 8. The cooled lava is black because it is mafic.


magma composed of high content of magnesium and/or ferric (iron).
magma composed of high content of silicas such as feldspar and silicon.

Felsic magmas will always be explosive, much like Mt St Helens and Mt Pinatubo.

Let me shut up. I am getting verbose again...


LogicFTW's picture
I always had an interest in


I always had an interest in volcanoes, plate tectonics, and geology in general.

I am learning lots here. Please continue to be verbose :)



▮          I am an atheist that always likes a good debate.          ▮
▮   Please include @LogicFTW in responses directed to me.    ▮
▮        Useful list on forum usage. A.R. Member since 2016.      ▮

Sapporo's picture
Phenomena can never be used

Phenomena can never be used to prove that something contrary to the laws of nature has happened.

arakish's picture
Sapporo: "Phenomena can never

Sapporo: "Phenomena can never be used to prove that something contrary to the laws of nature has happened."

Exactly. And to add to that, hoping you do not mind...

Virtually all phenomena can eventually be explained by the laws of nature.



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