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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@Sheldon maybe it is perfect logic? It''s kind of strange that I parroted something I've never looked into because most of us don't have the time nor care to disprove something that can't be disproven. We just went straight for the experience and got it. That's why believers don't need every single concrete answer in the universe having all knowledge from all time and space. Lol I can't imagine how exhausted you must be. We simply have the one answer that answers them all. That's why we be happy. If you don't want to know God? Then why can't you just say it and be done with it?
Here I posted this earlier to cognostic and maybe no one has seen it yet. Can I tag people in comments? I still don't know much about how forums work. I've been waiting for someone to rip it to shreds. Go ahead Sheldon. Give me your best. Or just say what you really want to say. I don't want to know God and be done with it.
@Cognostic "God sets you free? WTF are you talking about. God has a plan. Do you think you are free to go against God's plan? Where in the FK is your freedom? You can choose to follow God and do as he says or BURN IN THE PITS OF HELL. Please explain where you see freedom in that. Have fun being a slave."
I would love to address all of what you wrote. But I don't have the time nor do I feel that strongly as you do. I really don't care what you believe, and it seems like your mind has already been made. But I will take the time to address this question of yours. Since it does seem like you want to know, but you don't like what you have to do for It.
If God wanted us to be slaves he would have just created robots. Our actions have consequences. "God knows what works and what doesn't and what lasts" It gave us the choice\ with consequence. Like any law maker or parent would do. So God is telling us not to hurt ourselves while we play our own little god roles. If God was just going to force itself on us because then there wouldn't be much of a choice. Like when any parent does that to their child what happens? They rebel. Love by definition, must be freely given. And if God was just going to fix everything? The simplest answer is that It would keep restarting Adam and Eve over and over until there was a scenario where they didn't fall. But then, once again there wouldn't be much of a choice. So why does God let the whole thing play out? Why let it continue? Let's fast forward to Heaven. Unlike the garden, we will no longer have the temptation of sin. We will have the knowledge of it and what it costs. We will all be on the same page about it. We will all be filled with the greatest emotion that can possibly exist, humble gratitude. For not a single one of us earned to be there. That makes us all equals as well. And there won't be a single one who didn't chose to be there. Because we all chose to let God in and give us freedom from death and separation from what gave us life. Then everyone who didn't choose God wouldn't want to be in Heaven, where God is. So they will go to a place of their own choosing. And that might be excruciating seeing that you really missed the boat because God wouldn't do what you wanted. (Hmm, that seems to be such a reoccurring theme.) Or it might be enjoyable? Depending on what's really in your heart. Either way it could seem like a eternity before God's deletion program the lake of fire is implemented. God giving everyone exactly what they want. It could not sound more free.
"W-Wh-Whe -Where's the evidence of this?"
God is calling you. Do you not hear it? All you have to do is let go. Your eyes heart and mind and soul will all open up as you begin to believe and let God in. It does not work when God forces itself on you and then you'll believe. It has to be in your hearts longing to know God and let go of everything coming between you and God. But that's your journey. Im having mine. Yours will not be the same as mine. But if you do want it? Ask yourself. What would I be willing to do for it? "In all your ways acknowledge and your path will be made straight" I love you bro, I hope you find what your looking for. If you do want to know God? Then let God know, it's a lot easier than you think.
I apologise nylarhotep, I have to post this one last time. This video says it all, if you can hear it all the way through. Just make it past the short Pascal's wager part and you'll be fine. Btw I don't know why y'all just sweep Pascal under the rug? It's a huge principal. Anyways if you hear the knock at your heart. Don't be afraid to open the door. For it is Life itself.
https://youtu.be/D1e3HvpBOdk
GH
GH "I would love to address all of what you wrote. But I don't have the time nor do I feel that strongly as you do. "
GH "You can choose to follow God and do as he says or BURN IN THE PITS OF HELL. "
Sounds like it. You are the one who sought out atheists on an atheist forum, so please do stop arrogantly pretending it's the other way around. As for hell and the rest of your flimflam beliefs you know what you can do with them. I don't care to be threatened thank you, even if it is with fictitious superstitious nonsense. Typical of religious apologists to resort to threats when their superstitious beliefs are challenged with cogent rational arguments.
"I don't know why y'all just sweep Pascal under the rug? "
OK at last you have said something I believe, I have no trouble believing you don't know why Pascal's wager is asinine. I can't be bothered to read the rest pf your sententious sermon.
Why are you here? You clearly have zero interest in debate, I've seldom met anyone so closed minded, even among theists where this is fairly typical.
WHAT OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE CAN YOU DEMONSTRATE FOR YOUR BELIEF ANY DEITY IS REAL?
I've had enough of your preaching now, either offer something of value or find a pulpit.
Ok everyone. I really just want to be done with this. I'm not trying to convince or persuade anyone. I just want to be able to empathize with athiests. I believe it's come to a head. I'm perfectly fine with anyone believing anything they want. Or having lack of belief. Whatever. Hundreds of people want to know what I have and how I got it. So I'm good at giving examples that should lead them to their own encounter\ experience. You say we don't have sufficient evidence and never will. Well duh, That's because we don't command God and there is an order to the way it's done. Direct forced evidence doesn't work. God knows that. We started in the garden with that and still chose against God. Lucifer was in the presence of God and still chose to oppose. Christ came and they still chose to kill him. "Even though they see, they still don't believe." That's why...... Drumroll please....... You have to choose to want God and then you'll see!!!! Not the other way around.* Tadah * fireworks blazing* the bell rings* ding*ding*ding*
That's it. That's all. If you don't want to do that? Then just say so.
Why can't you just say I don't want to do that? And then be done with it?
@Great hope it is straightforward to empathize with others, simply by recognizing them as individuals in their own right.
I think it would be wrong to say that empathy is only possible with those who share the same views as you.
You are in a community that has come to be skeptical concerning the existence of gods. You should not feel dispirited if others here are unable to be persuaded by your arguments. If you are disheartened because you feel that atheists are missing out on something great or are risking a dreadful punishment, then that is empathetic of you.
I disagree with the adage "Seek and ye shall find", as I feel that if rigorously followed, you will simple assume your prior opinion to be the truth.
@ GH
What still here? Simples...You have to choose to want God and then you'll see!!!! Not the other way around.* Tadah * fireworks blazing* the bell rings* ding*ding*ding*
That's it. That's all. If you don't want to do that? Then just say so.
Presupposes the answer that your particular deity exists...and that "I don't want to know it [Him/Them]" Read the following out loud so you understand it; I lack the belief it exists, apart from that I have no opinion on your god.
So stop the fiddle faddle, listen: I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU...nothing else.
I you want to try and convince me, you stop with the iron age bullshit about your omnipotent omniscient being being 'concealed' by a duplicitous "sub god" in direct opposition to your creator being, that somehow manages to outwit the "OMNISCIENT OMNIPOTENT Creator" being... Cant you see what a silly idea that is? I mean, you being the expert on your particular god's thoughts and motivations, as you explain in your posts....
Again...I do NOT believe you, That is the SUM of my position....When you can introduce me to your version of your "it" I will choose whether I want to know it or not.
Can you not see that? I am losing patience with your silliness.
@Old man shouts ...
Well that's what I'm saying. That's the way it works. Then you'll have your evidence. So if you haven't tried it? You can't ask for more evidence? Right? That would be special treatment. It sounds like if God would do what I want\command then I would consider it. But trying it God's way is totally out of the question? That means you don't want to know God. So why can't you say it? It would give you ultimate freedom. You wouldn't need to keep asking for specialized evidence. That no one is ever going to have. By the time God forces itself on you. Your choice and hearts longing will have been made. It's completely fine if you want to block out that possibility and chose not to believe that. I'm not trying to get you to change you. Y'all have asked for evidence? I gave you the way it works that leads to your own evidence. But it's not the answer you like so it's not even an option to try it full heartedly??? Then you should be able to say I don't want to know God because I don't want to do it God's way. Then your free. And then I'm free from answering more and more of y'all's questions. With the actual way that it works. The truth that you won't try. Because you don't want to know God. It Should be so easy to say.
@ Great hope
I tried. It did not work. You are being insulting.
@David Killens
Ok, thank you David. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you. At least you tried and gave it the best wholeheartedly efforts. If God does exist then maybe you can tell it what it didn't do correctly.
@ GH
Once more : I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU, I LACK THE BELIEF IN A GOD OR GODS
you said "But trying it God's way is totally out of the question? That means you don't want to know God. So why can't you say it
How do I spell it out so you will understand, English is obviously not plain enough....How the fucking fuck can I try YOUR god's way when I don't even accept the fucking concept in the first fucking place? Are you just fucking stupid or plain fucking unable to understand english as she is writ? Am I just flapping me fingers on the keyboard? How the fucking balls aching hell can I reject something that I LACK THE BELIEF IN AND OF?
I DO NOT believe you, I want you to demonstrate how you obtained your inner knowledge of "god's way" and how I tell it apart from all the other charlatans who present me with all those paths to their god or gods, if wilI just do what they tell me...or send them a dollar for a prayer...
And stop playing fucking childish word games you dishonest turd..."just say you don't want to know god" Fucks sake...what are you 12?
Nobody can reject (Not want to know) anything that they lack the belief in or of...I lack the belief in singing mermaids, cosmic bunnies, talking donkeys and honest politicians.
YOU are ,making these outrageous claims about something you claim to experience...like the Emperors clothes you have convinced yourself you can see them. Now...prove they exist, or at least prove that you have the inside track on your personal god's innermost thoughts as you claim.
@Old man shouts ...
Have you tried it? No? Then you don't want to do what's necessary to know God. You should be able to say it.
@ GH
Oh for fucks sake...what language do you comprehend? Read my last post S-L-O-W-L-Y it might sink in...otherwise you are just so deluded that its pointless having a conversation with you.
I have a rainbow farting unicorn in my garage. You can see him if you really try. But if you don't even believe in rainbow farting unicorns Eric will remain invisible to you...you don't even want to try?
Then you don't want to do what's necessary to know Eric the Magical Rainbow Farting Unicorn ?
And we could have had so much fun playing with him, feeding him jelly snakes (his absolute fav) and polishing his hooves...
Have I convinced you yet? Surely my word is enough for you? No? Then you just haven't tried; since I started feeding Eric I have been a good person, I run a talking donkey sanctuary and a cosmic Bunny Home for Retired Creators of the Universe. . Now you could see all this but Redmane the evil half brother of Eric has cast spells all over the place to stop you even seeing Eric...
Sound daft? Do I sound deluded? Sound familiar? Yep....go figure....
Ok old man shouts...
Thank you
"Have you tried it? No? Then you don't want to do what's necessary to know God. You should be able to say it."
I don't believe your claim, anymore than your deity, it is irrational, and makes no sense. You're also becoming fairly condescending.
RE: Quotes from Great Hope.... (Edited for Clarity)
@ "Have you tried it? "
Once again you display your utter ignorance. Another wild ass assertion with no evidence what so ever. Half the people supporting this site were once theists,. Are you even capable of reading or paying attention to what people are telling you?
"You gotta quit making dumb-ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"Arright, let me see if I got this straight." ( looking left, right, quizzically attempting to put together a thought.) . "I can still make stupid ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"No, you can not make dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence any more."
"Arright...... Let's say......... I'm in a hotel room, alone and naked in front of a mirror, Let's say the Giddion's bible leaps out of the night stand lands in my hand and and I hear the voice of our lord saying read it aloud/ Can I make a dumb ass assertion at that time."
"NO! STOP making dumb-ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"I believe that most of us want to know God."
"No, Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"God exists, then by default there is a plan and a design. "
"No, Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"God The Creator and Giver of Life is offering everything."
"No. Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"God is of spirit so that's what I go with."
"No. Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
" I didn't go to a god I learned about. I went to the source of life and creation. "It" led me to the truth. Give it a shot if you like."
"No. Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence/"
"All I'm saying is there is far too much undiscovered about our proverbial internal worlds to completely rule out the nature of our souls."
"No! Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
" I'm coming from a position of God is the reality. And we've been given everything we need to gain such an encounter/experience."
"No! Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
" I don't believe that an atheist has really tried everything it takes to humble yourselves before God and do it God's way. That's why you'll never see your precious"evidence". You have to believe to see."
"No! Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence."
"The afterlife is the most talked about and debated subject in all of history. God designed it in a way that it tests the deepest parts of what we want in our hearts."
"No! Stop making dumb ass assertions without facts or evidence." There is literally no end to this moronic blather. Owned at every twist and turn and still it continues. Further evidence that "FAITH IS NOT A PATH TO TRUTH." Never has been and never will be. Faith without reason and logic leads to ........... (reference the above).
@Cognostic
Faith without reason and logic leads to ...........
Dumb ass assertions?
But I fully agree Cog. I have repeatedly pointed out my theist life, and Gh continues to offend me by ignoring my statements. Many atheists were once devout theists, and each took a hard and difficult journey in realizing their atheism. But in trots Gh and makes a wild ass assertion that we did not open our hearts or did not try hard enough. I am truly offended because I definitely made the hard journey in my search for a god. To casually dismiss my years of sincere and hard effort is a slap in the face.
@David Killens
I don't really have time to address every comment. There's like 20 people in here. I will admit to leading by the chin to get to the best of you. Because I wanted to get to know what was really in your hearts. And why you might have given up. Simple psychology will tell you there's something more going on then just lack of evidence. But if you don't want to say or you don't know yourself well enough? Then that's fine. No worries. It takes a lot of effort to play the tape all the way through.
@Cognostic
"Owned"???
What??? Because your favorite word is assertion. Doesn't mean that you have tried everything to get to know God. Nor does it prove that what I've been saying is invalid. As far as it all goes, none of us are going to have proof that God doesn't or does exist until we go to the great unknown. So really we are all just agnostics with strong opinions\assertions. Like Sapporo said it goes both ways. All I'm saying is is if you want to know God there's an order to it. That's all. And if you think you've tried everything? Then wow that's quite an accomplishment. Way to go. Keep up the good work.
Onward towards nowhere and nothingness... Maybe
GH
@ "As far as it all goes, none of us are going to have proof that God doesn't or does exist until we go to the great unknown." WHY IN THE FUCK DON'T YOU LISTEN!!!!!
The time to believe something. The time to know something. The time to assert something might be true. IS AFTER EVIDENCE HAS BEEN PRESENTED.
IF YOUR GOD THING IS TRUE - PROVIDE THE EVIDENCE. What possible reason is there to believe in your version of God? You have provided no reason at all to believe in your god. NONE. No one needs to disbelieve in a random idea asserted without any facts or evidence supporting it. That which is asserted without evidence can be rejected without evidence. It's just that simple. THERE IS NO REASON AT ALL TO BELIEVE YOUR INSANE RAMBLINGS.
@ So really we are all just agnostics with strong opinions\assertions.
Yes, everyone is agnostic. But only one of us has a strong opinion. An unsubstantiated, invalid, un-falsifiavle, delusional, opinion. That would be YOU. All I have done is ask for evidence, facts, validation, or something to prove your dumbass assertions.,
@ "All I'm saying is is if you want to know God there's an order to it. "
Another STUPID DUMBASS ASSERTION. Prove it. Demonstrate it. What evidence do you have. Do you have anything at all to support your Dumbass assertions that can stand against critical inquiry. ANYTHING?
@ And if you think you've tried everything?
Is your God so frigging retarded that he does not have the ability to convince me. Why would I need to try everything. Is John 3:16 unclear? And while we are at it: Are you so retarded that you think you can change god's plan. If I am an atheist, by your own theology, your god made me that way. More stupid assertions on your part.
@Great hope
"Because I wanted to get to know what was really in your hearts. And why you might have given up"
Given up? Go fuck yourself. When one embarks on a 40 year journey, is very capable on trouble-shooting, finding information, and how to search, I did not give up. I ran out of any material that could support a god or anything spiritual.
When one embarks on a fact-finding mission, eventually they must reach a conclusion based on the information that was unearthed. I reached that conclusion.
Simple psychology? I guess you missed it from a few months back, but my wife has her PhD in psych, as well as two Masters in psych. Considering that we have been married for over 30 years and I am a quick learner, it is not bold of myself to proclaim I know considerably more than the layman and I definitely know myself. You want to play the psych game, let's dance asshole.
I have to agree, and I ran out of patience with the empty vapid claims of religions and theists by my late teens, and have heard nothing from any religion since that offers anything compelling or of any value that secularism couldn't equally have offered.
When I hear the raving of theists like GH I feel genuinely sorry for them. It's such a shame that people waste their lives to a complete fiction and can't even see it. Though I can never quite muster their smug supercilious arrogance, and of course could never revel in the idea of any human being tortured forever as they seem to.
You haven't a clue what you're talking about sadly. Your odious condescending and arrogant sermonising is also fairly typical of what we have come to expect from theists when their religious spiel is challenged, they get angry and scared when they have no answers. As you have done throughout.
Belief without evidence is for the stupid and the gullible, your posts suggest you're perfect cannon fodder for theistic superstition. It's still not clear why you're here though, as you are woefully ill informed even for a theist. Parroting the worst kind of theist cliched arguments, and fallacies.
@ DAVID: My post was unclear: The comments were taken from posts made by Great Hope. I would never slam someone for struggling or for the years of struggle to get where they are. The moronic repeating of random assertions without any substantiation as presented by Great Hope are deserving of ridicule. Apologies for the misunderstanding.
@Cognostic
We are just victims of crossfire, against the same target. I fully understand your intent, and was never offended by you. And if I wronged you in any way, I do apologize.
Nope!!! We are good and I expect things will stay that way. I fully expect that if you actually call me on something, I will have to take a good hard look at it because you are probably going to be correct. :-)
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