Are we born good or evil???
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Nyarlathotep what makes you state that they weren`t the original authors, Tell me what sources have you? If not by the above name writers then who? And also can you give me dates when the so called gospels were written, Thanks
Gospel of Matthew - 80-90 CE - author anonymous - known to been copied from the Gospel of Mark
Gospel of Mark - 66 - 70 CE - author anonymous
Gospel of Luke - 80 - 100 CE - author anonymous - Known to be copied from the Gospel of Mark
Gospel of John - 90 -110 CE, author anonymous
nyarlathotep just saying there anonymous doesn`t make it so correct? how are they anonymous and what evidence do you have for this finding of yours, please give me more then just saying there anonymous, Anyway it doesn`t take away anything about jesus or his life story. this was real places and real people they just told what happened during a certain time period, the fact is they all went to there deaths as martyrs, I doubt all would have ended there lives in this matter if for a lie or myth.You have to give me more here, so please consider. thanks billy
I guess you didn't follow the links. Why am I not surprised? OK I'll make it more explicit, the following sources say they are anonymous:
University of North Carolina Wilmington
Brigham Young University
University of Idaho
Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
University of California Santa Barbara
University of Memphis
Intermountain West Journal of Religious Studies
don`t you have a explanation I`m asking what you think not what the above universities say. The only reputable university may be yale and Columbia, And they might be all liberal scholarship here.No lets face it you just don`t have a explanation for your comments your just saying it. That is bad dialogue to me.
Actually that is exactly what you asked me. I told you they were anonymous. Then you said you wanted sources. Now that you got the sources you are saying you didn't want sources? Did you forget to take your medication today?
You don't think BYU, UCSB, and UoI are reputable? Did you forget to take your medication this year?
There is nothing radical about anything I've said about the Gospels. Not my fault your local minister (who gets paid to believe) forgot to mention this to you. This stuff is taught at any introductory course on the subject. No Virginia; the Gospels are not eyewitness accounts, they were not written by the authors (who's names were added to the books centuries later), there isn't a single contemporary source for the life of the mythological character of Jesus.
Let me be clear. I'm not saying Jesus didn't exist. Just like King Arthur and Robin Hood who may have existed in one form or another, a person with some resemblances to Jesus may have existed. But the stories you read about these characters (including Jesus) are mythology.
well I totally disagree jesus is not a myth people died over his existence they fearlessly proclaimed the good news, No these were real flesh and blood people and the places that they inhabited was very real ,A myth is a false narrative a story with no facts, In fact when you say myths I think of Richard carrier and Robert m. price they are from the liberal school of theology. And there not considered as reliable sources of scholarship, There stories under examination has many holes in it.Some anti Jesus people for decades and maybe centuries since the enlightenment have tried to use the myth argument but you know it falls apart under examination.
People die everyday for religions that you no doubt think are phoney; but you don't take that as evidence for those religions. More special pleading.
Nyarlathiotep if Christianity is true then all the other religions are false you can`t have here a contradiction the law of deduction here applies. So no matter if other religions people die they are dying in vain since there is only one true way to God and that is thru the jesus of Christianity. People in those other religions die on false assumptions.And none of them have the kind of following that jesus has with over 2.3 billion followers.
Too funny. When Christians die for their religion it suggests to you that Christianity is true, when non-Christians die for their religion they dying in vain for a false religion. I have to say this is the best example of special pleading I've ever seen.
But I would still like to get your comment on this quote FROM YOU:
there cannot be a contradiction in terms it can`t be Christianity and Hinduism, or islam or Buddhism only one way to god and that is Christianity Jesus states clearly that the only way to the father is thru him jesus the son. The book gospel of john states that.So when Buddhist set fire to themselves it is more against the government that they are doing it.or quite possibly other sects within Buddhism. I`m not saying that there dying isn`t important here, all I`m saying is that I feel that becoming a martyr for Jesus Christ is the only way to the father has eternal consequences while the other deaths don`t.
Still waiting for your comment:
Exodus 24-45 24.8, "and moses took the blood and sprinkled it on the people."
:):):0 24.9-11 moses, aaron, and seventy of their companions saw God. ( they even got a peek at his feet!) How could this have happened if no one has ever seen God????= Can God bee seen?
@Science follower: "jesus is not a myth people died over his existence they fearlessly proclaimed the good news"
If people dying for a belief is the test of its truth, then Ra, Jupiter, Odin, Mithras and many others are also just as true as Christianity. Religions are designed to make dying seem like a good idea. They're great stuff for warmongers.
In Islam that is true but Christians and Christianity is a peaceful practice. But I do see your point that if people died to test of truth they are just as true as Christianity.Yes there have been wars among people of religious persuasion.This whole idea of death and religion want`s me to not even discuss religion.I was only playing the devils advocate with some other people on the web site because they were only presenting one point of view. I tried thru my Christian experiences to give what I thought was a reasonable explanation.thanks billy
@Science follower: "Christians and Christianity is a peaceful practice."
Ever heard of the Crusades, the slaughter of the Cathars, the Spanish Armada, the 30 Years War, the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre...?
yeah and what century did the incidents you mention occur, not recently, In order to probe if what you say is true we would have to select each one and do a history on why. I'm sure the Christians have an answer. Lets not be all one sided here, as I`m afraid the atheist websites have a tendency to do.
How about Rwanda. Is that recent enough for you?
Christianity was also behind ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland.
or Hitler incarnate???? LMAO
The gospels, as well as the rest of the Bible, was written in the 680s-692 A.D. by a committee of story tellers, writers and artists. That is why the various stories flow together in an uniform manner. They may have relied on various manuscripts as well as oral stories. One thing is for sure and that it that it wasn't written by Jews. If it had been it would be almost unreadable, like the Jewish Babylonian Talmud is. It's written in the same style as other English stories, such as Robin Hood, King Arthur, etc., although it is written in Latin. Those stories simply flow smoothly. The Bible didn't exist before that time.
that's simply not evidence. Please provide for us that "god" "jesus" actually existed without the bible in any form...greatly appreciated!
Oh boy do you and them have a rude awakening coming... dead: Oh shit, I thought I would go to heaven, where the f am I? LMAO
It would be interesting to see what the original Bible of 692 A.D., the Codex Amiatinus, says about the resurrection.
You are entirely allowed your opinions, but to use atheists, we require substantial proof beyond a reasonable doubt that gOD existed. Simply proclaiming relic renditions of the oldest bible does not secure argument or evidence in any form. Profanity is a part of life. If Jesus lives in your heart that is your way of having faith and "feeling" that this faith is going to make gOd real. I will reiterate, other than your own presumptions, do you have evidentiary proof that he existed other than what the bible teaches?
Always makes me smile when a christian apologist "evidence" for their god is... stories.
There is no real testable evidence, there is not one thing that can be tested like: if you take a vial of water from the red sea, take it into a lab setting that minimizes any possible variables, pray to god in the right words, and the water will begin to divide in the dish and create a dry path in the middle of it.
But things like prayer and the great flood have all kinds of evidence against it.
All large scale studies of prayer, even in double blind situations, showed no increased odds above random chance. No one particular religious group has a marked increase in good fortune over others or atheist on things people tend to pray to god for, for better outcomes.
Or some evidence of a great flood that covered the entire earth roughly 5000 years ago, (depends which religion/sect you ascribe to.) Plenty of evidence of much smaller localized floods all through history can be found rather easily. But no evidence of a great flood (that covered the entire earth for 100 days, 150 days, 1 year, etc, depending on which version of religion you ascribe to.) A world wide flood should be really easy to spot and be blatantly obvious if evidence of much smaller floods before and after the event can be easily discovered with modern technique and tools.
Every religious person that has stayed in debate to me and others here, eventually boil down their evidence to "faith." And their reward for believing in their god to be purely good feelings and supposed, completly unprovable reward in the afterlife.
@logic: um...he has proven for a fact, that he has no proof. So why waste time on a non evidence based dullard! Just tell him to go pray! LOL
The demon issue is interesting. 2,000 years ago demons were as common as fleas. Whatever happened to them? I don't seem to have a demon. In fact, none of the people I've ever known didn't seem to have had any demons. Do you have some demons? The Pope seems to think he knows where the demons are but he's probably just crazy.
"faith" you say...good old faith, ya that l help. In fact, by proxy, you presented no evidence other than scripture, which as far as I am aware, is not truth...evidence, factual, nor testable scientifically in any fashion. So why dont you go back to your bible, pray for everyone, then use all the faith you can to get that narcissistic prick out of office, or wait, why wouldnt you want him in office, he brought that bitch in who is trying to put prayer back in school. This by itself is criminal as there is a reason there must be a separation of church and state. And if Jebus was here in spirit or any other form, why do so many dying children with cancer who pray for a cure are never heard? Why didnt he smite Hitler? No, no testable proof here. From what i learned in bible class in college, is that the so called holy scripture was transcribed over a thousand times by numerous scribes and you know how the old saying goes....you have a line of people and begin the line with a statement, by the time it reaches the end it is completely different. So therefore, those 500 people who claimed they seen the resurrection of christ, were actual 5 drunken illiterates who wanted to start a good gag. Just sayin. By your photo and name, I would assume you are a man of science, please enlighten us with some factual evidence "scientifically" Oh and one last thing, trump is a punk!!!!
@Science Follower "Just look at the life burial and resurrection of jesus Christ"
There's no evidence that Jesus lived or was crucified. If he did exist and was crucified, there's no evidence that he actually died. According to the story, he was taken down after a few hours. Usually crucifixion took several days. There is a credible story recorded by the historian Josephus about people who were taken down alive after being crucified for a few hours following the fall of Jerusalem in 70CE. I believe that two later died but one recovered. Jesus was supposedly a young man in his prime, so he should have been able to survive longer than a few hours, despite the flogging and the spear stabbing. A more credible version would be that he was taken down unconscious and later recovered.
Jesus on the cross said that it is finished and the spear wound that the roman guard inflicted proved that Jesus had died.Because water and blood poured forth, No Jesus was dead!!!!! The burial in Joseph of Arimethia tomb prove that he was dead, And as far as the missing body it`s because Jesus simply rose from the dead.Could you in your prime be able to survive a being crucified. Don`t forget the intense beating that he went through he was already loss of blood and the carrying of the cross, There are writers outside the new testament that state that Jesus lived and died.Where is your history books here?