Atheists! I might have proof Christianity is right!

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M_Kiik's picture
Atheists! I might have proof Christianity is right!

I was looking on the internet, I found Near Death Experience videos! Many of them show Christian things. I challenge anyone, find me any Muslim Near Death stories. Why do they never see Muhammad, but Christians see Jesus? Tell me that! There are also many stories of Jews and Muslims seeing Jesus. Never Christians see Muhammad. Why are so many people seeing Jesus? In some stories Jesus tells Muslims that they are wrong. He says they must become Christians. You atheists say it's all in the head. HOW???

Please explain HOW Muslims never see Muhammad, many hear Bible phrases that they never knew of. Many convert to Christianity. I think this proves Christianity is more correct than Islam. If it was culture, shouldn't they see him? But they don't! Also, why Buddhists and Hindus always see hell? Atheists too! Maybe this means Christianity is true hmmm. Tell me that!

I would love your opinions and ideas.

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Sky Pilot's picture
People lie to themselves more

People lie to themselves more than they lie to others.

M_Kiik's picture
how does that answer why

how does that answer why Muslims don't see Muhammad?

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Because they're busy looking

Because they're busy looking for the 72 virgins.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Because they're busy looking

Because they're busy looking for the 72 virgins.

algebe's picture
This is all hearsay and fable

This is all hearsay and fable dredged up out of the World Wide Well of Bullshit. People who have near death experiences are not in their right mind because of injuries, anesthetics, lack of oxygen, etc. Those who take them seriously as proof of any religion are out of their minds period. There are enough wonders in the real universe without looking for enlightment in other people's dreams.

In the West we unfortunately have a Christian-dominated culture with lots of people willing to pay money for "proof" of a Christian afterlife. They're perfect prey for every charlatan, huckster and phony medium.

M_Kiik's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

Why though do so many Christians claim they saw Jesus, even the one's not lying. Why is there no Muhammad for Muslims? Even if it is cultures, why should they not see Muhammad EVER?

algebe's picture
First, if someone is close to

First, if someone is close to death, where are they more likely to be picked up by an ambulance and taken to a modern hospital with qualified emergency doctors? a. Los Angeles b. Cairo c. London d. Syria

Second, if you have an unorthodox religious experience, where would you feel safe talking about it?
a. Saudi Arabia b. United Kingdom c. Pakistan

Third, who has done proper surveys of near death experiences in the Muslim world?

M_Kiik's picture
None in Muslim world. In

None in Muslim world. In North America there are many Muslims who see Jesus. There is not enough done in the Mid East. Why then in the West do many see Jesus, and he tells them to change to Christians?

algebe's picture
Then who's more likely to pay

Then who's more likely to pay you to go on TV to talk about these experiences, Christians in California or Muslims in Iraq? This sort of "reality" TV crap is all over the Western media. There are people talking about their weird relatiionships, alien abductions, and other garbage. Near death experiences involving encounters with Jesus are just another way to milk the system for money. A Muslim converting to Christianity would be a double-whammy. Seeing one of these people we've demonized turning to Christianity would be the ultimate thrill for a Christian. I can't imagine what would happen to Christian who claimed to have met Mohammed in Saudi Arabia.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Kiik - Why is there no

Kiik - Why is there no Muhammad for Muslims? Even if it is cultures, why should they not see Muhammad EVER?

It probably isn't very common since Muhammad is not considered a supernatural creature (at least as I understand, I don't know that much about Islam). Compound that with western sources are not likely to push Islamic testimonials and I think that does a good job explaining why you don't hear about them everyday.

That being said; there are accounts of Muslims meeting Muhammad during NDE's. I found one in less than 20 seconds, which makes me wonder how hard you looked...

M_Kiik's picture
@Nyarlathotep

@Nyarlathotep

This video is staged. Terrible acting. The man obviously reads from a script

Nyarlathotep's picture
If you had read the

If you had read the description is says English is not his first language, that he is reading from an English translation of his testimony.

I also find it troublesome that you accept NDE's from people of your religion, but reject those of other religions.

Sky Pilot's picture
When people see Jesus what

When people see Jesus what does he look like?

Endri Guri's picture
I'd rather believe someone

I'd rather believe someone saying donkeys can talk rather than that. That image of "Jesus" could have been caused by many things i.e body injuries, lack of oxygen etc... Or the more obvious one is the OBVIOUS fact that they've been paid to say they saw Jesus. Else, what's the purpose of it if shown on the Tv. And just to clarify your statement, there are also many people who have had a Near Death experience and have said to have seen nothing but darkness (nothingness).

Dragon reborn's picture
Oh for fecksake. You're not

Oh for fecksake. You're not even able to spell Christianity in your header, and then you start babbling about YouTube videos. Next.

M_Kiik's picture
It's not just youtube videos.

It's not just youtube videos. Jeffrey Long has many examples in over 2000 cases.

Dave Matson's picture
2000 cases of bull shit do

2000 cases of bull shit do not add up to a diamond! These people have no concept as to what scientific "proof" is all about! This is a question for the psychologist.

M_Kiik's picture
It's not just youtube videos.

It's not just youtube videos. Jeffrey Long has many examples in over 2000 cases.

Tarser's picture
I would like to make two

I would like to make two points:

First, I'm going to assume that you are right. During NDE's Christians see Jesus, but Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Atheists see hell.....Okay, so we have to conclude then that the latter group go to hell when they are dead and Christians go to heaven. This is what you are saying, isn't it?

What is 'Hell'? The traditional view is that it is 'eternal torture' - burning, wailing and gnashing of teeth. So, let's keep going. Are you comfortable with that? Is it okay with you that non-Christians go to hell simply because they don't believe that Jesus was the son of God? Do you think that eternal torture is a just punishment for millions of non-Christians?

My parents were atheists and they were also lovely people. They were kind and harmless. They are now both dead. Should they go to hell for not being Christians? My brother is a Christian and I asked him this question. He wouldn't answer until I'd asked him so many times, he finally cracked and said 'YES! I believe that they are in hell!"

So, Christians think that 'belief' is more important than behaviour. It doesn't matter what you do or don't do, only what you believe. But 'belief' is not something you can choose with sincerity. You can look at all the evidence and decide. Atheists cannot find any reason to believe the Christian view and many reasons no to. A sincerely held view cannot be changed without evidence to the contrary and to be punished for what you cannot change is clearly unjust.

If you (and my brother) are correct - that decent, warm-hearted people who have never done anything wrong will go to hell, and that this is fair, just and proper for such people, I can only see this as good reason to reject this god. Eternal punishment goes against the moral sense of any decent person. If 'God's ways are not our ways' and that when God does such things, it's 'GOOD' you have lost all conception of 'good and evil. You are submitting to a terrifying power hoping that he won't torture you if you simply 'believe' in him.

My second point is this: I have read quite a few books on NDE's What stands out in every one I've read is that people of all religions and none simply DO NOT have religious experiences where Jesus is seen. Let me give you a quote from 'Dying to be Me' by Anita Moorjani which is typical of what people experience:

"I also seemed to comprehend why I'd come into this life in the first place - I knew my true purpose. Why do I suddenly understand all this? wanted to know. Who's giving me this information? Is it God? Krishna? Buddha? Jesus? And then I was overwhelmed by the realization that God isn't a being, but a state of being....and I was now that state of being"

'God isn't a being, but a state of being' . Even as an atheist, I kind of like that and can live with it! Most other NDE'ers report a feeling of being loved and accepted. They tend not to talk about meeting Jesus or God, just a feeling of acceptance and love. It is the non-religious nature of NDE's that has interested researchers as it is this that points to it's non-cultural nature.

I haven't entirely rejected the idea of NDE's but I think that it is likely that a lot of exaggeration, lies, delusion, false memory, wishful thinking etc. probably lies at the root of the mystery - just like religion.

mykcob4's picture
This is just fucking stupid.

This is just fucking stupid. You offer hearsay and wild claims of nothing more than imagination and then demand proof. Fucking dumb.
Christianity is no more valid than islam or the tooth fairy or a billion mile invisible purple cow!

BAACKJD's picture
I honestly can't do this

I honestly can't do this anymore.

Alembé's picture
Hi JB,

Hi JB,

It's like Le Tour de France. Sometimes you have to slip back into the peleton, enjoy the ride and let others break the wind.

gsrdzl's picture
This claims are probably

This claims are probably false. Serious research has proved that the imagery seen in NDE is always culturally influenced: Christians see Jesus, Hindus see Hindu gods, etc. Also, many NDE don't involve religious figures at all. Therefore, it is quite possible that those Youtube videos are made up.
https://infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html#differences
http://www.pacifica.edu/gems/grothmarnat/CrossCulturalNDE.pdf

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Nyarlathotep's picture
The most interesting I think

The most interesting I think are the NDE's of the cargo cultists.

gcibulka's picture
Why don't Muslims see

Why don't Muslims see Muhammed? I'd be willing to bet many of them do during a near death experience, but the only ones you read about were put out by Christians or christian organizations to try to push their agenda. I'm also not sure how you can claim to have proof, yet also provide no sources to back it up.

ThePragmatic's picture
@ Kiik

@ Kiik

Regretfully, I don't have the time to write about all this again, so i leave you with some liks to similar conversations, initiatied by another forum member with similar questions like yours. I really think you should take time to read through these.

http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/atheist-hub/atheists-how-would-you...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-i-challenge-y...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-if-you-found-...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/13-years-old-agnostic-...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/what-do-you-think-nass...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/atheist-hub/what-are-your-views-ar...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-what-your-exp...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/what-do-you-make-quote...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/what-do-you-guys-think...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/question-about-hell-i-...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/am-i-bad-person-wantin...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-can-you-think...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/how-do-you-explain-out...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/what-do-you-think-abou...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-what-do-you-t...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-help-what-are...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/atheists-if-these-resu...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/light-season-do-you-be...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/what-do-you-guys-make-...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/question-about-idea-gh...
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/proof-praying-works
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/proof-prayer-works-sec...

Dave Matson's picture
It seems that a lot of

It seems that a lot of Christians coming to this forum have no concept of what a proof really is! Second-hand stories with no serious documentation and other assorted garbage that has far better explanations (if one had a deeper knowledge of the subject) do not make a proof. Lack of real research is huge, and a lot of people come here after being fired up by some U-tube scam. They are big users of the argument from ignorance. That is, if you can't explain then and there their pet "gotcha" point then they win! Yes, "proof" comes easily to their lips, but they have no clue as to what a real proof entails!

Brendan Bombaci's picture
Uhhh...

Uhhh...

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charvakheresy's picture
@ Kiik. I once saw this

@ Kiik. I once saw this episode on american television. It was a talk show maybe oprah or some other of a similar ilk where they were interviewing a person who had a near death experience. This person claimed that in that experience he witnessed a place with nothing. Truly nothing. when he came to he remembered the experience of nothing and thought it was hell and since then he hates anyone who says go to hell.

Isn't that proof then that nothing exists after death. No heaven no hell, Nothing..

twotif's picture
So you're familiar with every

So you're familiar with every single near death experience that ever occurred in the Muslim world?

You seem to think that since YOU have never heard it, that it hasn't happened. That's an unforgivably narrow minded view of the world.

Also, in the Muslim world you'd be stoned to death, or get your head removed for stating that you saw Mohammed. Again, an extremely narrow minded understanding of the way things really are.

Most near death experiences are simply a result of the oxygen in your blood running out, and your brain's physiological reaction to that. Whatever it is that one see's in that situation, it's just a dream induced and influenced by lack of oxygen the brain.

When astronauts and fighter pilots do G force testing and learning on a centrifuge, often times when the blood begins to exit the brain due to G forces up to 9 times the normal, they will have experiences that are EXACTLY like people who've had them in a hospital or wherever.

They'll see "Jesus," or floating in the room and looking down and observing themselves in the machine. All the same stuff. It's just a physiological reaction in the brain.

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