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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Another dumbass god of the gaps and false dichotomy fallacy rolled into one.
That's incorrect, a belief is the affirmation of a claim. Why do you keep trying to portray belief and the lack of it as comparable, as if we didn't know.
belief
noun
1.an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof
Note the emboldened part, and note (yet again) that disbelief need not involve a contrary claim.
They are not hypothetical because they are not testable. They are not the sort of claims that are testable nor provable.
Incidentally, scientific theories are not provable, they are believed. And when they are no longer believed they are, says Krauss, discarded like yesterdays newspaper. Religion doesn't change, he claims. Interesting that atheism doesn't change.
Nice piece of evasive sophistry, but only theism is a claim, atheism is the lack or absence of belief in that claim.
A scientific theory is a broad explanation of a naturally occurring phenomenon, and that theory contains objective evidence. They are accepted as valid because the weight of objective evidence puts them beyond any reasonable or rational doubt.
Scientific facts, like species evolution, are accepted as such because the weight of objective evidence puts them beyond any reasonable or rational doubt, so saying scientific theories are believed is the worst kind of sophistry, if you are trying to draw a parallel with unevidenced religious beliefs.
Do you believe the world is not at the centre of the universe? Because I do, this is a belief, but it is starkly different form your belief a deity exists, because while the former has been established with objective evidence, the latter has none.
Now one more time, this was your earlier claim:
And again, only theism is a claim, as all beliefs are the affirmation of a claim, atheism is not a claim and therefore not a belief. I have zero interest in your red herring sophistry about hypothesis.
@Sheldon... quote from Apollo “ scientific theories are not provable, they are believed...”
This sums up why he BELIEVES his idea of god and science are sooooo compatible...
First thing I taught my boys ... BIG difference between “opinion” and “argument” and they’ve each learnt that lesson through home “debates” with each other.
When I set up the last one, the youngest was so confident in his “argument” he didn’t use his preparation time wisely. The middle kid wiped the floor with his ass and tears swelled in his eyes as I tore him a “new” one on his logical fallacies.
Next debate - he fuckin used his prep time and thought about what/why/how he was saying.
Better to teach them to think early in life so as an adult they don’t embarrass themselves on public forums...
Yet theists like you keep insisting the law of cause and effect would apply, bizarre.
Oh dear....
@Apollo ... going half way since both are quote “ The observation that theism and atheism are metaphysics, and not verifiable nor falsifiable, bears on the issue of objectivity and the so called neutrality postulate. There is no neutral ground. There is no ground, foundation, nor method to determine with necessity the correct perspective.”
“God” pushed thorough into physical existence, blowing itself up...we are just bits of “god particles” (I couldn’t resist.... sorry)
Now what?
@Whitefire13A
Anyone who is serious already knows that a giant purple space chicken laid the universe as an egg!
Unfortunately she was roasted at 350F for 35 minutes, for your sins. But at least she was delicious!
Whitefire13 asked "Now what?"
That's up to you. You can believe what you want to believe concerning the origin.
@Apollo...
Or with-hold belief.
This simple concept escapes you, as does the various other concepts presented (hypothesis, scientific method, etc)... so here -
***patting on head****
The “so what” is referencing “big deal” “what does it mean”? Yes, I will determine the meaning and purpose of my life while I’m here.
yes, you can suspend judgement. It doesn't change the other options, namely, either the material of the universe always existed, or it created itself.
withholding belief, or suspending judgement is agnostic.
God almighty Apollo - you need to write a book called “word use and meaning according to Apollo”
Of course, you can even believe the earth is at the centre of the universe, but you would be wrong, and you'd have been just as wrong to believe this claim when there was no objective evidence either way, as you would be now, when we now it is an objective fact that the earth is not at the centre of the universe.
Disbelieving the claim it was not at the centre of the universe when there was no objective evidence either way would not make you wrong of course, as you were withholding belief from an epistemologically ujustified position. However denying the claim it was not at the centre of the universe when there was no objective evidence either way would be wrong. And I'm finding it increasingly difficult to believe you genuinely can't see the distinction.
It's not that complex a premise, once you stop trying to justify beliefs unsupported by sufficient, or indeed any, objective evidence. As you are still trying to do of course. Distorting all facts through the lenses of unevidenced superstition.
It's just fucking stupid. Apollo has been on the site for how long? He doesn't even understand the world "Atheist." He is a troll and this is a continuation of idiotic BS.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it was fucking designed by God. It's fucking logic 101. I'm on apollo's side. Grow the hell up and smell the coffee....
@Apollo: "Thank you for sharing your ignorance. Few people are willing to demonstrate ignorance to so many in such a way....
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Bumped
Yet theists like you keep insisting the law of cause and effect would apply, bizarre.
Sheldon wrote, "Yet theists like you keep insisting the law of cause and effect would apply, bizarre."
Nope. I never said that, which is why you can't find any post where i said that.
I never claimed you'd said it, I said theists like you claim it, and they do with first cause arguments like the kalam cosmological argument. However I'll accept you have never made this particular claim if you say so, since it may not have been immediately clear from my post.
@Apollo..
Me as a child “mommy, where did god come from?”
Mom “he was always there”...
Me, at 5, scrunch brow ...
Me at 50-odd whatever “Apollo, where did god come from?”
Apollo “he was always there” (I assume this is the core of your faith as your fight for “truth” has been tenuous)
Me scrunch brow...
@White
"Apollo “he was always there--"
Yup. I was taught that YES! EVERYTHING absolutely had a cause. Except god of course.
When I queried what I did not understand is a logical fallacy (special l pleading I think) I was given the favourite Catholic party line
"It's a mystery of faith.We just believe" That didn't usually work for me at 12 and it damn well doesn't work for me now.
@ Thread
IF Apollo is a troll, why are you still feeding him? Trolls need attention.Ignore them and they will eventually go away. .
@Cranky... self isolation....fun. I don’t know what trolls get out of it, but I get a kick :)
Re: why are you feeding him?
@White
"I don’t know what trolls get out of it, but I get a kick :)"
Ah, that I understand .Comic relief and a chew toy. Don't you get bored trying to communicate with the intellectual equivalent of a turnip?
No... it’s funny
Still waiting for Apollo to list all the beliefs he holds without any supporting objective evidence, but that that form no part of his religious beliefs?
Or it is just the one belief he's decided doesn't need objective evidence?
@sheldon...don’t hold your breath
He’s already “changing the subject” back to something he could have addressed days ago.
Apollo is not going to answer you.
His refusal to answer, like all the other theists before him, is an answer. If he were not espousing a hopelessly biased position he would be shouting that fact from the roof tops, and the fact he isn't shows not only that his beliefs are biased blinkered nonsense, but that he also must know this, else he would offer some other belief he holds without any objective evidence, but that forms no part of his religious beliefs.
His claim that objective evidence doesn't exist is meaningless of course, as are all claims if he were correct, it would be bizarre if he couldn't understand this, but I think he can, hence his reticence.
@All. Is Apollo still at it? Damn! Brings new meaning to banging your head against a brick wall. What happens when the head is completely worn down and now there are only shoulders?
Bump
So at least as valid as your unevidenced and imaginary deity then. Which you claim to be certain about.
That's ok, we will just assume it, like you do about your fictional deity.
Yet you and all the theists who come here claim to know that your imaginary deity from a bronze age fiction "created" everything prior to this using unexplained magic, and you claim to be certain, whilst simultaneously claiming there is no such thing as objective fact, even the objective fact that the world is not flat.
You're either off your tits, or lying your pants into ashes, and at this point I don't know which it is, or which is more embarrassing for you.
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