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Those characteristics are inherited traits. You inherited your fingernails and two nipples from your parents. The fact that I also have two nipples and fingernails means we have a common ancestor.
Adam and Eve?
Up to now, scientists are unsure of how modern dogs came to be. My guess is that they are trying to assemble the impossible: The belief that natural selection made dogs evolve from wolves.
It would be much easier to just believe that they appeared out of nowhere because of God's power. But these scientists seem to not want to accept that.
My theory is that the domesticated dogs we see today were simply lucky enough to be inside of Noah's ark when the flood happened.
"Easy" is not a convincing argument. I think that creationists do not accept evolution because the theory is "irreducibly complex"!
Do you believe the earth is flat? Why not?
Evolution has as much or more evidence than the fact that the earth is round, it just not as simple/comfortable concept to grasp. It is not a theory, it is very! well supported scientific consensus. Even most major christian leaders will say evolution is real, they realized it was a lot of egg on their face to deny evolution.
"Evolution has as much or more evidence than the fact that the earth is round, it just not as simple/comfortable concept to grasp."
That was very well put.
The existence of God is just as valid as evolution is. The reason why I believe in it is because IT MAKES SENSE. It FITS in the overall puzzle of life. It gives meaning to life. And the history in the Bible gives a very proper context to many things today.
One of my favorite prophecies in the Bible is the one in the book of Daniel. It said that there would be a military conqueror who'd one day attempt to conquer the world. After his rulership, he will die, and his kingdom would be divided into four. And then these four would merge into two, which would ultimately merge into one. 200 years after Daniel, we have Alexander the great. And the rest is history. Ask me more if you want to find out more.
And as far as Christian leaders accepting evolution... I don't belong in them. They're too liberal for my tastes. I'm a young-earth creationist. I believe the earth is only 6,000 to 12,000 years old. I guess you could say I'm a zealot.
Liberal eh, Almost every pope this past century.
Well, that is easily refuted.
1) Your bible only accounts for the "known world." It doesn't account for Africans, Far East Asians, North and South Native Americans. There for there was never just four nations that merged into one.
2) It doesn't make sense. The bible is filled with stories from other religions that preceded ti. When the bible talks about the future it is purposely vague and never reveals anything not already known at the time.
I don't believe your little dream story. I told you that personal testimony was not credible evidence.
I wouldn't say that you are a zealot. I would say that you are a moron and a looney tune.
Science has proven that the Earth is about 4 billion years old. It has been tested and verified. Science has proven that evolution is fact tested and verified.
If you think that the Earth is only 6-12 thousand years old, then there is no hope for you. So fuck off flake!
Is insulting people an acceptable behavior in this forum?
"The existence of god is just as valid as evolution." No. Only in your mind is that true. Your god story only makes sense in your mind. You are hopelessly lost to reason when it comes to anything that your religion talks about.
You are way out there in terms of your religion, the vast majority of even Christians do not deny evolution and the fact that the world is only 6-12k years old. They know that is an idiotic belief to have. The same scientific discovery that allows you to carry on this conversation on the net, also says the earth is 4.5 billion years old. That evolution is real. You just pick and choose what science suits your world view. Letting an old book and bunch of rich religious leaders tell you what parts of science to accept and what parts not to.
It is pointless to argue with you since you deny all of science by denying core parts of it, denying testing and real world results when it does not suit you.
If I knew you in real life I would know that I could easily manipulate you, since as soon as your emotions get involved, they rule the day. I could pretend to be a leader in your particular religion, and you would accept everything I said without question, as long as I could relate it to the god construct you have in your head.
What is worse, is you are here, on the internet, on atheist forums, where the correct and obvious answers are right in front of you, and you are blind to it. There is an enormous amount of well written explanation available why any god is not real yet you choose to not spend 5 seconds to even look.
"It is pointless to argue with you since you deny all of science by denying core parts of it, denying testing and real world results when it does not suit you."
As a powerlifter, I use science to a great extent in my training. Without science, the mere "art" of strength training will not be enough to give me real world results.
My numbers are... a 405-pound squat, a 455-pound deadlift, and a 275-pound bench press.
You can't say I deny science if I use it in my day-to-day life.
If you use science to get better results lifting, why not use science to understand that your god is extremely unlikely? That evolution theory is absolutely a much more evidence backed system then "creation" That science shows the earth is far, FAR older then 6 to 12,000 years old.
This is an important point. You use science and reasoning all the time. Why do you abandon them as soon as it is a subject this supposed god covers?
If you agree science is real and it works, why do you dismiss parts of it? The science on evolution, and the age of the earth is overwhelming, it is far more examined and precise, and well supported then the science behind power lifting.
There are times when I would rather listen to my heart instead of my brain...
I used to rely on my brain a lot. It got me far. But there was no happiness in it...
I rely on God to give my life meaning, and by doing so, I feel happy. And now that I mentioned that, I wanna mention something...
Michael Polanyi, a VERY WELL KNOWN author in philosophy circles, asserted in his book, Meaning, that science is not the one that gives meaning to life. It is RELIGION and ART that gives meaning to life. Not science. And if it ever comes a point when science replaces religion in that department, shit will happen. Imagine that. A dog-eat-dog world that relies on eliminating the weak and glorifying the strong. It is a means to an ends, but unlike a lot of things, the consequences of the means is too terrible to justify the ends. It'll become a very real hell on earth.
That is arguably the dumbest thing I've ever read. First off, the meaning of life varies by the person. Religion gives absolutely no meaning to my life, and art, very little. Both are hobbies. I discuss religion, sure, but if it were to disappear, my life would be no worse off. If art were to disappear, I would be more affected, but my life wouldn't be pointless. Science gives my life great meaning because it is my personal passion. Science is poetic. It's breath-taking.
Also, I highly doubt that a world run by science would become a dog-eat-dog world that relies on eliminating the weak. We have natural causes of death to eliminate the weak; we don't need to do it ourselves. Also, consider that most violent crime, including murder, is done by Christians. Atheists make up 0.2% of prison populations in America. Most child molesters claim Christianity as their religion. Over 90% of murderers and serial killers claim to be Christian, while a good 45% of serial killers claim to have killed in the name of some god or other. Science and secularism is not the problem. Take a step back and think about this.
It will become.....a: Zombocalypse!!! *que dramatic music*
Or maybe you been trained to think that would be the case. As others have pointed out, more atheist leaning societies tend to have less crime, less murder, happier people, better health outcomes, etc etc than the theist societies.
You really begin to lose your case when you start saying atheist = hell on earth. You are no longer a nice guy gently putting out your argument why we should follow your path, but instead saying in so many words atheist = the devil!!
Right; you aren't denying science; you are selectively denying it, which is even more worrisome.
See if you told us that scientists are engaged in a conspiracy to hide god because they hate go or whatever; that we shouldn't trust science, at least that would present a consistent narrative. But instead to you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Huh? I don't understand. lol
Then prove your god is real with testable evidence? Time to put up or shut up!
WHAT!? You won't prove your god until WE prove evolution? That is a cop-out, a crock. You should be willing to prove your god without any stipulation. That tells me something about you.
Evolution IS a fact and I am not giving you information because you made an ultimatum.
http://eveloce.scienceblog.com/16/dna-proves-evoution/
http://io9.gizmodo.com/8-scientific-discoveries-that-prove-evolution-is-...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence
Now I am assuming that you are intelligent enough to understand the information.
I'll read those as soon as I get the time. Meanwhile, I'll go answer some more questions from the others here.
@Zombocalypse
Don't try changing the subject. Even if evolution was proven wrong, it still doesn't prove your god is real. So where is the testable evidence for your god? Remember the bible is not evidence.
xenoview,
Actually the Bible is the best evidence that the religious stories in it are pure BS. The more secular parts are valid observations about the human condition. That's probably why they were deleted from the Protestant Bible versions.
Zombocalypse mentioned prayer. According to the Jesus dialogue if a believer asks for anything and has no doubts Jesus will give it to him and the person can also do greater miracles than Jesus did. Now I will admit that people do ask for certain things and do get them but that's just random chance. Otherwise all believers would get what they pray for and that doesn't happen.
But the best evidence that the Bible is BS is that in the past 2,000 years not one believer has ever been able to have a tree or a mountain uproot itself and jump into the sea at his command. Now it's not a good idea to have millions of people making mountains zoom around the sky splashing into the ocean. But at least one believer should have been able to command a tree to do it and have it obey.
Therefore, the Bible fails because no one really believes in it or it's just one big lie. And if the Bible is a lie so is the Koran because it says that most of the Bible is true. That means that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all worthless.
In any scenario people pray for something that science says solidly that cannot happen, such as a mountain moving it self, or regrowth of a lost limb, it never happens, at least in a situation where it can be verified.
But "miracles" that occur that can happen, such as praying for someone that is deathly ill to recover, miracles happen close to the rate science suggest recoveries will happen on their own, regardless of prayer.
The "power of prayer" is one of the few things in the bible and other various religions that we can actually test for. The bible claims real world results in something we can do today right now in a scientific way. And every single scientific study shows that prayer has zero effect, beyond possibly a weak placebo effect (this goes both ways both negative and positive.) That creates results above simple coincidence.
And I just dare some theist to say something along the lines of: "god must remain hidden." I got a devastating counter argument I would love to use.
Prayer has zero effect, you say?
I am a testimony that prayer has power and gives real results... But my testimony is too weak so there's that. But still, I disagree.
@Zombocalypse: "as you "factualize" the theory of evolution"
You didn't invent the word "factualize." It's been around for a while. I believe it means to provide facts to back up a theory. If that's what you mean, it's already been done for evolution. Next time you have a chicken or a turkey, compare the drumsticks with the hip and thigh structure of a tyrannosaurus rex.
But why have you made proof of evolution a condition for providing proof of your god? Does evolution rule out the existence of your god?
But for the sake of argument, I say that evolution is proven by DNA evidence, by drug resistance in bacteria, and by the hominid fossil record. Now give me three proofs of the existence of your god.
Hah! nice. I bet Zombocalypse did not think his conversation would lead him to that corner. Eithir he has to:
1. avoid the question,
2. or put himself deeper in the illogical hole he has dug to answer "no",
3. or finally, open himself to logical/factual defeat if he says "yes."
The only proof that I can give is the historicity of the Bible.
Otherwise, I'll have to resort to stating the super obvious... Example: We exist. Since God created us, he exists too. Therefore, He exists.
@Zombocalyse
You said "We exist. Since God created us, he exists too. Therefore, He exists."
Nope, not credible. A fallacy of line of logic and a total lie.
I could say that we exist and because of that, we created a god to exist.
The only thing actually obvious is that we exist. There is no proof that a god exists or ever existed.
How old are you....12?
@Zombo: "We exist. Since God created us, he exists too. Therefore, He exists."
Hah.
We exist. We created god.
Those are the only proofs you can come up with? Words (the bible) and more words (we exist so god exist?)
Yikes that must be embarrassing for you.
I wrote a 1 paragraph "bible" a few days back on these boards for my made up: LogicForTW's flying spaghetti monster god, that has just as much evidence as your god has.
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